So, this Scottish Independence thing Cameron's banging on about…

Protect out sea from who?

You will have a duty to patrol the coasts from people seeking to enter the country illegally. If you did not take this seriously then that big wall would need to be re-erected to control immigration / terrorism.

CaptainFlashheart – Member
the whining Sassenachs
Racist.

Hmm, think I prefer that to ‘Nigel’

tj – can we get how the ‘common’ (as in shared) royals are paid for added to ze SNP Questions list, presumably 50/50 as they’ll be split between us ?

I know it’s complex, but I’d happen to like to be told the truth (by both sets of excrement involved in the argument) and I’d like the facts established before the deal rather than paying lawyers to resolve them after.

I fail to see how Scotland can vote without knowing the facts, and I don’t want them to vote without a clear understanding of Englands liabilties and I want all tossers involved to be accountable for any lies and ball ups.

e.g say I was a politician and I gave you a wish, and you said I’d like my cock to reach the ground, and I said no problem, so you said ok, I suspect you’d be less than pleased if I chopped your legs off

gusamac – its a perfectly valid point. Informed consent is the key

Plus the whining Sassenachs have never been so pissed off

Be nice now – it can’t be easy having saddled themselves with a bunch of tossers who are busy screwing over their social structures, while ours are plodding along quite nicely.

The thing is we heard all the same prophecies of doom and gloom in the run up to the devolution vote – the English really are starting to sound like a bunch of political bunny boilers. What’s next – we vote ‘yes’ for independence and you start threatening to kill yourselves?

How come you said that Scotland (indie Scotland that is) would be out of NATO?

I would have thought that it would have wanted to be in NATO given that a large part of it is surrounded by said ocean, and it would be the first place that the red menace (not ManU before anyone says it) would have to fly over/bomb on the way to get us.

Also, what are you going to tell the combined Scottish regiments if there’s suddenly no work for them? No NATO means no peacekeeping. You’re not likely to pick a fight with anyone, so you won’t need a standing army. They might not be happy with that.

Oh, and regarding the navy, we don’t have much left any more, so going for a percentage of it might mean that you actually get a percentage of a ship. Maybe a life raft or two. Or the old stuff that is in dock until it can be turned into razors. That would do for fishery protection wouldn’t it?

Serious point though, can you ask the SNP what their plans are for the armed forces post-independence. I really would like to know.

What’s next – we vote ‘yes’ for independence

You’re not going to have the chance to vote. So I woon’t worry about it if I were you. 🙂

Do any Scottish people here seriously think Scotland will ever become independent (at least while there’s still any oil left)?

And if so, do you also believe in Santa Claus? Unicorns? The Tooth Fairy?

accept that you are ruled from London…so stop worrying about it and concentrate on building yer trams or whatever, try doing something properly for a change.

This bit is really good – remind me again, the London Olympics are now running at about £5billion overspend. The numbers of kids involved in sport in England is falling, so the legacy of that £9 billion vanity project will be what – some unused stadiums slowly decaying in the east end somewhere. 😆

it would be the first place that the red menace (not ManU before anyone says it) would have to fly over/bomb on the way to get us.

LOL – are you Rip Van Winkle? The Warsaw Pact disappeared a wee while back now. There is no red menace!

willard – I can answer you a bit about the armed forces stuff.

Its a controversial position in the party but I believe the position is to not be in nato but to be neutral.

The scottish regiment ( I think its all amalgamated into one now) would be a defence force for the defence of Scotland and UN peackeeping. Navy would be coastal and fisheries protection only. Airforce dunno

conventional forces only no nuclear

conventional forces only no nuclear

Actually, without the money spaffed on the willy waving vanity project that is Trident, running a Scottish Defence Force would be a lot more feasible, especially if it’s also free of the ridiculous procurement snafus that characterise current defence spending.

The whole is bigger than the sum of its parts.

That is all you need to know.

EDIT: that and how to inflate tubeless tyres. That’s quite useful as well.

Yup- an how many coastal defence vessels can one buy for 10% of the spend on the new aircraft carriers?

The British (English) could hire the Scottish Regiment for a suitable fee. It’s well know that us Scot’s are bloody handy in a good rammie !

And as for The Royal Scottish (Stewart ?) Navy, we are also rather handy at building boats that come in any shade of grey you like. Or we could just hang on to the two sitting at the shipbuilders on the Clyde just now.

IBM subs you can do without.

This bit is really good – remind me again, the London Olympics are now running at about £5billion overspend. The numbers of kids involved in sport in England is falling, so the legacy of that £9 billion vanity project will be what – some unused stadiums slowly decaying in the east end somewhere.

Stadia that you’ll have paid for but will never get to use, probably.

I’ll hopefully be using the velodrome and swimming pool now and then though. And i dare say some footy team will get to use the main stadium. What return will you be seeing for your investment? Oh…

Still, at least you’ve got that nice trams system in Edinburgh to use.

Oh….

Face it; the onions of a couple of million Scottish folk don’t count for owt, when you consider Scotland’s continued (albeit decreasing) importance to the UK economy.

Once again (cos you’ve not answered this one yet, strangely):

Do any Scottish people here seriously think Scotland will ever become independent (at least while there’s still any oil left)?

And if so, do you also believe in Santa Claus? Unicorns? The Tooth Fairy?

Answer pliz thx.

ditch_jockey – Member
LOL – are you Rip Van Winkle? The Warsaw Pact disappeared a wee while back now. There is no red menace!

I dunno. With all the gas that they have, a democratic government controlled by former KGB and Communist party members, and a lot of places that they feel they should be in, I reckon Russia will be making moves in the future. We are already seeing a lot more noise from their long range recon planes than we have done in a while.

TJ, thanks for that information. At least it shows that they have put some thought into it.

I see it like an amicable divorce. We’re still fond of each other but have grown apart. A Scottish referendum would clarify how Scots feel and if a majority want to separate, then the peoples of other counties in the union should consider that application seriously. And then they should also have a referendum and if they agree then the Scots should be free to go on alone.

My personal feeling as an Englishmen is that they should be autonomous and take whatever natural resources within their boundaries with them – I would expect no less if the shoe were on the other foot.

who will get the Falklands, and their costs and possible assets.

I’m asking as didn’t most of Scotland panic back when the Argies invaded and they hadn’t read the atlas

TandemJeremy – Member
Yup- an how many coastal defence vessels can one buy for 10% of the spend on the new aircraft carriers?

Depends, Who will be building them for you? Open market, quite a few. Domestic? Not many.

Yes, we got shafted on the new carriers, but that was [maybe] down to a certain ex-PM wanting them build in his constituency, and other people messing up the contracts. We could have done better. Same with the new Type 45s…

Procurement. Yes, we should improve that. Good luck with that if you do get independence.

if a majority want to separate, then the peoples of other counties in the union should consider that application seriously

Why?

What about Wales? What about NI? What about Cornwall? What about Yorkshire? What about London? Etc? All would have valid reasons to split, and London certainly would benefit. I woon’t want to see it happen though.

The only vote I would support would be a UK-wide one. Cos I beleive all people of the UK should have a say in the future of the Union.

Personally, I’d scrap the England Scotalnd Wales NI bit and just call it Britain. Be simpler. Then we could have a British footy team, Rugby teams, etc. 😀 We do for cycling, so why not other sports?

We’d be a stronger nation if we weren’t so divided by petty regionalistic parochialism.

Elfin,

I believe there is a real possibility that we will get full fiscal autonomy (Devo Max / Indy Lite) before the oil is completely gone. I doubt we will actually leave the Union though. Although the argument for the Union would be massively diluted by effective fiscal autonomy I think the same sentimental crap that means 1/4 – 1/3 of the population are desparate to separate there is 1/3 – 1/2 who are sentimental about “Britain” and “the UK”.

I think its so marginal whether Scotland is a net contributor or drain on the UK that it shouldn’t make any difference either way (neither side has ever conclusively proven the balance was one way or other). That’s not what worries me – the problem is that a government suddenly gaining that power/responsibility with be so keen with voter friendly policies they will forget to balance the books and so screw it up. If we grow up and pay more to get more, or accept you can’t get it all without paying then it could be fine.

I really doubt most people would notice though – in the same way as there’s not that much difference between Dunblin and Belfast (not withstanding that wars have been fought over such claims!).

It would be interesting to see what the manifestos of the other parties would be in an essentially independent Scotland – I’m not convinced that the SNP would be the successful party in the “new Scotland”.

Of the 59 Westminster seats in Scotland only 1 is Tory and that is unlikely to change much in the foreseeable future.Perhaps Cameron is more devious than you give him credit for…..

What about Wales? What about NI? What about Cornwall? What about Yorkshire? What about London?

Do they have the same appetite for separation? I didn’t realise Boris was a separatist!

Cos I beleive all people of the UK should have a say in the future of the Union

I agree

The only vote I would support would be a UK-wide one.

The problem is that the Scots’ voice would be drowned by everyone else’s.

Have the SNP thought about the currency that an independent Scotland would use?

I went on the SNP website to find out, but if you search it for the word “euro” you come up with just old press releases from 2002 and 2003…

http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2002/jul/scots-warm-euro

60% of Scots in 2002 expected they would have switched to the euro within 5 years….

So which choice will independent Scotland make? Switch to the euro and have economic policy dictated from Brussels and Frankfurt, and cross-border trade massively disrupted; or stick with Sterling and have it dictated from London, but now with no representation?

EDIT: I think a referendum would be a good way to flush out these arguments.

I am being very thick here – Scottish lady on BBC news (second minister perhaps) who I assume is pro-independence stating that DC actions are pandering to the pro-camp and making yes vote more likely. And she is looking miserable???? She should be welcoming this. Cameron making her life easier….or am I missing something?

What about a purely Scottish currency? Norway is still currencarily (it’s a new-type word I just made up) independent, with the Kroner.

But then, you’d have to establish it on World markets, hmm, that could be tricky…

who will get the Falklands, and their costs and possible assets.

Las Malvinas you mean? Argentina. 😀

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/andrew_marr_show/9622477.stm

Well we’d keep with sterling until it was to Scotland’s economic advantage to join the Euro

I am not an economist, but I can’t help feeling that wouldn’t really work for very long.

The thing that really curls me up about it is that the jocks can’t have a referendum on independence without permission from Westminster. Now they’ve got it they don’t want it. A classic opening salvo really. It will be interesting to see how the cards go down on the table between Salmond and the chinless one, as the game of wits unfolds.

(My monies on the jock.)

They can opt for the Scottish pound and devalue like the Southern Irish must be thinking about now re the punt.

The scottish regiment ( I think its all amalgamated into one now) would be a defence force for the defence of Scotland and UN peackeeping.

What on earth makes you think that all of those Fijians in the Royal Regiment of Scotland would want to join this Scottish Army of yours?

Labour yesterday signed a motion with the Conservatives and Libs to demand an immediate vote….So nobody running scared then. Of course Elfinfredtaky said it won’t happen so what do they know? 😉

Berm Bandit – Member
The thing that really curls me up about it is that the jocks can’t have a referendum on independence without permission from Westminster. Now they’ve got it they don’t want it.

Actually the vote is to be on Westminsters terms NOT the Scottish governments. Cameron want it now before his popularity falls to Thatcher years levels.

In all seriousness, we have enough uncertainties in our collective worlds right now, I would have thought having one less to worry about would be a good idea so if there has to be a vote then better sooner rather than later so we can move on and deal with whatever outcome.

Although it would probably be fairer to ask the entire country North & South of the border wether we even want a vote given other more pressing issues that face us at the moment, it’s just bloody politicians **** about with things for their own self aggrandisement after all, none of us were consulted about devolution in the first place and now the whole bloody Union appears to be up for discussion who even suggested it in the first place I wonder and how many of them were there?

Timing:
During the campaigning for the Scottish Parliament, the SNP were accused by the dependence parties of “hiding” their plans for a vote on independence somewhere deep in the manifesto and of planning to hold a vote as soon as they got into power rather than concentrating on getting the economy, jobs, growth question resolved. As a result, Alex Salmond made a commitment to delay the vote into the second half of the term. Now he’s honouring that pledge, the dependence parties are complaining. 🙄

It’s also worth saying that the only time you’ll see/hear an SNP politician talking about independence is when they are responding to something in the media or when dependence party has raised some sort of issue.

none of us were consulted about devolution in the first place

You mean apart from the 1997 devolution referendum?

All the pro unionist parties are running scared of Salmond and the SNP. the only uncertainty is that which they are creating and there is zero evidence for business concern over the timing of a referendum.

I really cannot believe how foolish this is from Cameron but then he so clearly has no idea about scottish politics and issues from previous pronouncements.

Those who wish for independence are rubbing their hands in glee at this. Dictating the terms of the referendum from London is giving the pro independence camp an open goal and will probably tip the balance in favour.

Its laughable

So TJ same question. If DC is indeed playing into their hands and misunderstanding Scottish politics so badly, why the reluctance to go ahead with a simple vote. Why the smokescreen of waiting until the 2h when this is the KEY issue, indeed raisin d’être of the SNP? GFI it will be fun to watch.

read druidhs post above, read mine answering this question.

Affordability:
According to the last set of Government Expense and Revenue – Scotland reports, Scotland would be running a deficit of around £4Bn (this assumes a geographic split of oil & gas revenues). Not great.

However, Scotlands per capita share of the UK deficit would be around £11Bn. This means that Scotland would actually be over £6Bn better off independent.

druidh – Member
Timing:

You mean apart from the 1997 devolution referendum?

That didn’t include us they just asked you lot had they asked the entire country the answer would probably have been different, but then they were Jock politicians running our affairs then were they not, so the whole issue is pretty fraudulent if you are sitting in our shoes.

Tell me when it was that a majority of cabinet ministers were not English.