So how would you improve Critical Mass?

I’m going to go along to the next one and see how it goes.

Excellent! And I hope others will do the same. that way, we could have a more informed debate about the issues.

Sorry. But really non-deliberate?

well, I think it’s a given that a mass of 2-300 cyclits all riding together in a busy city will cause some disrtuption, but then, so do thousands and thousands of cars. Every single day. CM is for a few hours once a month. I do not think that the vast majority of riders intend to deliberately cause trouble though.

as for running red lights and blocking traffic; the best way to keep the group moving, so that it doesn’t get fragmented and strung out all over the city (which would inevitably cause even more problems), is to keep things rolling through each junctiuon. i have even seen police ushering people through red lights, so that’s clearly the best solutiuon in the circumstances. With the ‘deliberate’ blocking of traffic; this is sometimes necessary to prevent impatioent drivers from trying to drive through the mass, which would be very dangerous and will/has resulted in accidents and injuries. general, the ones asking the drivers to stop will chat to them and thank them for their patience.

Which is the exact opposite of what the cyclists in the film of last weeks London CM were being.

Ah, you watched a video, yet I was actually there, so saw more of how things transpired. Don’t wish to sound arrogant, but I think even you can concede that I may have a better perspective on this?

I’m going to take a step back here and just ask this. How about acknowledging those who have put forward sensible and thought out suggestion? You seem to focus on the (in your eyes) unrealistic and naive suggestions, try ignoring those and engaging with those of us who would like to discuss it properly?

A fair coment. I have allowed myself to be sucked in by those clearly just out to antagonise, and neglected to interact with those actually behaving decently, so i apologise. I think some very good suggestions have been made, particularly with things like giving out information etc. But I’m sure you can all appreciate that CM is a very difficult beast, and there are no simple solutions.

CM has no idea what it stands for or what it wants to achieve

Because, ultimately, it’s not a political movement, organisation or event with any agenda. That individuals may each have their own agenda is merely their own choice, and that they may chose to use CM as a platform, is again simply their own choice. CM is nothing more than a concept; that people get together to ride bikes safley and enjoyably, in an environment that is other wise hostile to an individual. That so many of you really want it to be something political or tangible, shows how little you understand the whole concept. Do you have a political agenda whewn you go for a bike ride, or do you just go for a bike ride?

Mike – well done, you have provided everyone on here with a clear idea of what CM is about.

You have now become a one man marketing disaster for cycling.

You have also shown us that CM is also a disaster for cycling.

it’s not a political movement, organisation or event with any agenda

Maybe each car driver, aware that CM will be happening, could use alternative routes, or perhaps not use their cars at all. This is London, where most car journeys could easily be made using alternative means. So maybe it’s the car drivers who are the selfish ones, as they are the overwhleming main cause of traffic congestion in London.

Can i not ask them to leave their cars at home, use alternative transport so that i can ride my bike in a motor traffic free environment?

One person seemed to base his entire opinion of London CM rides on what he’d seen whilst sitting in a pub in Manchester.

I take it that’s referring to me. Here goes then Mike. I’ll bite, yet again

I used to watch CM in Manchester every time they ‘celebrated cycling’. I’d do this while having an after work Friday pint. My bike, on which I commuted into the city every day, would be leaning on a wall next to me

They ride around on a Friday evening, generally annoying people who’s only crime seems to be that they’re sat in a car and want to get home for the weekend. By blocking junctions, causing unnecessary congestion, jumping red lights and generally being stupid.

From repeatedly watching them do this I formed the perfectly reasonable conclusion that they’re a bunch of clowns who achieve the grand total of sod all!!! In fact its worse than that….. they antagonise car drivers, making them less inclined to be considerate to cyclists. Of which I am one.

Now I’ve asked you repeatedly to point out how this radically differs from what the London lot are doing, because from what I can see the two are identical. Maybe that’s why they both call themselves critical mass. Just a thought…

Anyway… I’m obviously not very bright as I’m clearly missing something. Would you care to enlighten me……

Oh… if you could do it in the most dismissive, patronising, condescending and sanctimonious manner possible, that would be great. I’m a bit odd like that. Must be a regression thing, I suppose. I really enjoy people talking down to me

Fire away…..

I have learned that many of you are stuubborn and have deeply entrenched views which you will not change

I’d suggest the use of a mirror 😉

ignores evidence
wears tight blinkers
has too much time on his hands
cant leave an internet argument without the final word…..

welcome back TeeJ.

as for running red lights and blocking traffic; the best way to keep the group moving, so that it doesn’t get fragmented and strung out all over the city (which would inevitably cause even more problems), is to keep things rolling through each junctiuon.

lol so cars can go through red lights if they want to stay with their friends? if you want to be part of the traffic and respected as such by other traffic, you gotta obey the same rules, or expect other road users to break the same rules.

dyed in the wool lefty
resorts to insults
believes he exists on a higher plane of intellect……

at least TJ knows im just gently ribbing him :mleh:

I have come on here with the hope some middle ground could be found

which means listening (on both sides), and not challenging every opinion that you don’t want to hear, and not having such strict criteria entitling people to have an opinion. 🙄

Mike – well done, you have provided everyone on here with a clear idea of what CM is about.

I suspect some of them are just as clueless as when this discussion began. Even light cannot penetrate a black hole.

You have now become a one man marketing disaster for cycling.

You have also shown us that CM is also a disaster for cycling.

That is absolutely your opinion and nothing else. Just because others may agree with you does not validate it in any way.

I must go now, as i have to sort out a bike for a teenager who has suffered serious health problems and wants to use a bike to get healthy again. A job I shall enjoy immensely. I hop the rest of your day is just as rewarding.

TJ you say? Smells more of Fred/Elfin to me.

soobalias – Member
ignores evidence
wears tight blinkers
has too much time on his hands
cant leave an internet argument without the final word…..
welcome back TeeJ.

Doubt it.
Teej was sound.
TBH, its a bit insulting to him, especially when he’s not here to defend himself.

Missing you already…..

Could you answer my questions when you get back though please Mike? Fanks

Oh… and I’ve just nominated you for one of these…

well, I think it’s a given that a mass of 2-300 cyclits all riding together in a busy city will cause some disrtuption, but then, so do thousands and thousands of cars.

If car drivers behaved deliberatedly like CM “celebrations” or the sheer volume of cyclists caused the problem at CM then then you would have a point but it is deliberte from CM. probably best to compare it to a rolling roadblock by angry truckers/farmers/clarksons whomever for the delierate disruption it causes.

Ah, you watched a video, yet I was actually there, so saw more of how things transpired. Don’t wish to sound arrogant, but I think even you can concede that I may have a better perspective on this?

The video was marked Number 1 on the CM website – an advert for the cause.

My main objection is that not one of the was wearing a helmet 😉
and as above

cant leave an internet argument without the final word…..

welcome back TeeJ.

(can’t believe nobody has done this yet)

That is absolutely your opinion and nothing else.

No, it’ become a consensus. Rare on stw.

mikeconnor – Member
And on that note, I think there’s sadly no point in continuing this discussion,

No, it’s become a consensus. Rare on stw.

Indeed. A consensus that has brought together cyclists as diverse as Junky, Binners and I. As well as almost everyone else. On a bike forum, FFS!

Oh, and it;s not TJ. TJ’s way better than this.

It’d be really good if someone who actually represented Critical Mass would come on to this thread and tell us what they think.

Mike, I thought you were going to concentrate on the positive stuff.

I must go now, as i have to sort out a bike for a teenager who has suffered serious health problems and wants to use a bike to get healthy again. A job I shall enjoy immensely. I hop the rest of your day is just as rewarding.

bless you my child, may your sense of self worth be boosted by such wonderful acts of selflessness and community spirit. like the rest of STW i will be selling crack to school kids whilst, and i think i can speak for everyone else on here when i say…. it’ll be hard for us to focus on our jobs ruining the lives of our future generations when we’re all swooning so hard at the thought of you helping somebody out. you kind, kind mayn.

oh what’s the point?

😆 Philly….! Nicely done! 🙂

Surely from what Mike said, nobody represents it. You can’t represent a cloud or I suppose in this case a miasma.

There is of course a difference between the police ushering cyclists through red lights and CM undertaking road traffic duties by themselves. And Mike is worried about accidents happening?!

Junky, Binners and I.

indeed other than this I cannot think where all three of us agree

two of us are lefties
2 of us like cricket
2 of like football
2 of us are real and have actual e-mail addresses in profile:wink:

Two of you can spell for balance

he’s a spoof account from the DoT

some summer student placement is demonstrating that you can easily discredit (non) organisations such as CM, they will be counting numbers at the next ride and checking whether it’s worth keeping the psyops going

another spoof account will pop up soon suggesting a “considerate” CM ride just to keep those who have to do one busy 😉

That’s more feasible then the alternative.

Smells more of Fred/Elfin to me.

i heard he finally sought real help for what was quite obviously a serious mental issue, which is why i ‘picked on’ TJ for my comparison. I know he (TJ)will be laughing, if infact he even hears about it.

I won’t be attending a CM ride any time soon, mainly because the ‘ride’ part looks completely shit.
slow, in the city centre, not going anywhere nice….nah. stick it up yer bum.

So how would you improve Critical Mass?

stick it up yer bum

Thread closed

stick it up yer bum

There’s nowt to add to that really

sorry, i’m back from helping an old lady across the road only to leave her in the path of oncoming traffic, you know… for a chuckle like. i’ve got serious health problems, can you come over and fix my bike mr connor?

That so many of you really want it to be something political or tangible, shows how little you understand the whole concept. Do you have a political agenda whewn you go for a bike ride, or do you just go for a bike ride?

Ok I dont understand. Why would I want to go out for a cycle ride with 200 other people in the busiest part of the country at the busiest time of the week ?

I might want to do it if it had an agenda, ie greater cycle provision in London. It would be worth the effort then.

So I would improve it in either one of 2 ways.

1. Have an agenda ie block up traffic and to prove that more investment is needed in cycling infrastructure in London.

or

2. Do the ride Sunday afternoon in a way to minimise disruption from traffic to increase the ride enjoyment.

Can u just answer why it on a Friday evening ? if not to make a point ie London has no basically cycle infrastructure. Which is a good point to make so why does CM have to have no agenda ?

How would I improve CM?

Well, assuming I was looking to attract more participants or sympathy for my Friday evening social bike ride, then first of all I’d change the name. Critical Mass as a brand (I know the word ‘brand’ will not be popular but I can’t think of a better way to put it at the moment) is, rightly or wrongly, tainted. Non-cyclists and a good proportion of cyclists that I know in London associate it with militant troublemakers. That may not be easy to stomach but it reflects the reactions I have had when mentioning CM.

Plus critical mass (note lower case) can be defined as, ‘an amount or level needed for a specific result or new action to occur’. Ignoring the fact that Critical Mass claims it has no aims (in which case it is a critical mass for what?) lets assume it was started to raise awareness of cycling on the streets of the capital with the provision of better facilities as a secondary benefit. Well that critical mass has been passed. There are far more cyclists on the streets of London now than there ever were in the 80s when I first cycled there. In fact I would argue it is now mainstream. You have a cycling mayor, a bike hire scheme that positively encourages cycling and much greater awareness amongst politicians and non-cycling residents. There are also other lobby groups who have established the political legitimacy (not just legal legitimacy) that is needed to effect change.

Critical Mass was a good starting point and was a catalyst for change but it has passed it’s zenith.

Is this a post lacking positive suggestions? I think not. There are more positives to be had by moving on than there are in persisting with a negative image.

that was already ‘justified’ as being agreed with the courts/police and therefore too difficult to move.

why they wanted it then was kinda ignored. I would go along, but i ride to the pub on friday evening.

Can u just answer why it on a Friday evening ?

It’s something to do with Christmas I believe…

The ride happens when and where it does, according to it’s tradition. i’m not a Christian, yet I have to endure christmas and the ensuing fuss

How would I improve CM?

I’d improve it by not attending. The more people that join me in choosing this option, the smoother the whole ride will be, with less unfortunate jams/side-effects, p155 off fewer people caught up by it, and save the police a few bob too.

Ultimately, if they can get it down to 0 attendees, I’d call it a resounding success 🙂

As Philconsequence said above….if you are just a large group out for a cycle, why are you not obeying the traffic laws?
The group may get split up & fractured but that is a unfortunate consequence of organising an over-sized group cycle through one of the busiest cities in Europe at the busiest time of the week. It’s hard enough for two cars to keep together through London due to the stop start nature, so how can you expect and why should you expect a massive group of cyclists to stay together?

The longer this thread goes on, the more I wonder if this is just a well thought out troll.