So how would you improve Critical Mass?

So you still managed to piss off a few people then.

😆

Busy thought you had just copped a ban for trolling 8)

Thanks cor quoting me I did re read the thread before saying that and I stick by it. Glad you had a fun ride. Have you worked out what you stand for yet?

Not intentionally. Most seemed to posses enough self control not to get all wound up, and the two that did seemed to be very aggressive people to begin with. they chose to become angry, no-one forced them to.

If you drive a car in an already congested city, you are selfishly adding to the problem. If there were less cars, there would be less congestion, and CM would cause fewer delays. so it’s not CM’s fault that London is congested, but the car drivers, of whom the vast majority have other travel options. Many however seem to think they are entitled to drive in an extremely congested city, with little or no thought for cyclists or other road users. If all those car drivers weren’t on the roads, then riding a bike in central London would be a lot safer and far more pleasant.

I’ll give it one go but my experiences with TJ suggest that this will be similarly futile.

The views of many you’re just writing off for being abusive or derogatory are simply opposing views. You seem unable to consider that people quite legitimately think that CM is counter productive without having to also think that the car is king.

Some of us (who’ve actually attended CMs in London no less) think that there are better ways to achieve what seems to be your goal – making cycling in London (wherever) less risky/more pleasant. I wasn’t on CM on Friday and I hope that it was just as you’ve described but tbh your style on here so far makes me think that you’re quite likely to paint a picture that matches what you want to believe the perception of CM to be rather than what it actually may be to people who aren’t so tied up in it.

If you drive a car in an already congested city, you are selfishly adding to the problem. If there were less cars, there would be less congestion, and CM would cause fewer delays.

Sorry. Did you REALLY just say that CM only stops drivers from driving around London because they selfishly choose to drive their vehicle around a congested city thereby blocking traffic? I can’t begin to unravel the gordian knot of logic that stops you seeing you add to it.

Anyway, I decided to look on the website and other than the eye-ache I got from it, I’m still puzzled. What DO CM stand for? Totally get that some members get involve in other avenues and get stuff done to help cyclists but what does CM actually achieve or try to achieve?

Chichester has spoken, the forum has decided.

Do NOT attempt to change anything yourself, other people do that.

So it’s CM or nothing?

How about encouraging people to consider cycling instead of driving their cars? You know, by talkin to them and encouraging them rather than by antagonising. I’ve got loads of people cycling or fixed their bikes so that they’ve got no excuse not to. I reckon that’s been loads more productive than CM has.

Glad you had a fun ride. Have you worked out what you stand for yet?

Thanks, I did. For me, CM is simply about getting together with other like-minded people to have a fun, safe and relaxing bike ride in the city. Which I, and hundreds of others, did. To my mind, CM as an idea is not about any political agenda, regardless of those who think it is.

S

ome of us (who’ve actually attended CMs in London no less) think that there are better ways to achieve what seems to be your goal – making cycling in London (wherever) less risky/more pleasant. I wasn’t on CM on Friday and I hope that it was just as you’ve described but tbh your style on here so far makes me think that you’re quite likely to paint a picture that matches what you want to believe the perception of CM to be rather than what it actually may be to people who aren’t so tied up in it.

Very few people have actually offered positive advice; most seem more intent on attacking something/someone they have no knowledge or experience of. Your expericen of CM rides obviously differs to mine. You are no more an ‘authority’ on the issue than I am. Having been on the latest ride, i am however far better qualified to comment on that particular ride.

Making comments about ‘vegan lesbians’ etc just shows how woefully ignorant and prejudiced some people are. But having read many posts on this forum, that seems to be the default setting for some, at least.

One conclusion I have made after last Friday, is that the people on this forum no more or less represent ‘cyclists’ than those on CM. Although many on here seem to think they do.

Chichester has spoken, the forum has decided.

Do NOT attempt to change anything yourself, other people do that.

I made some comments earlier in the thread about crusties/hippies/etc which you misread and took as being my own viewpoint which I think it clearly wasn’t.

I haven’t read the whole thread but I wouldn’t be suprised if you’ve similarly misunderstood some other comments too.

You asked for comments and suggestions. Some as you would always expect are pretty useless, most that you seem to have taken offense to IMO have been people trying to say that they don’t think CM is the best way to achieve something.

Have you worked out what you stand for yet?

I strongly believe in the murder of all CM attendees.

Some of us (who’ve actually attended CMs in London no less) think that there are better ways to achieve what seems to be your goal – making cycling in London (wherever) less risky/more pleasant. I wasn’t on CM on Friday and I hope that it was just as you’ve described but tbh your style on here so far makes me think that you’re quite likely to paint a picture that matches what you want to believe the perception of CM to be rather than what it actually may be to people who aren’t so tied up in it.

^^ This.
As I said earlier, I have attended a couple of CM’s (admittedly many years ago) but I stopped going because there didn’t seem to be a point to it – no follow up, campaigns, publicity. It was just one evening of disruption which ultimately (as far as I could see) didn’t really achieve anything.

What IS achieving increased awareness is the vast extra number of cyclists on the streets day in day out, the hire bike scheme, cycle superhighways. Not a once a month anarchic demonstration…

One conclusion I have made after last Friday, is that the people on this forum no more or less represent ‘cyclists’ than those on CM. Although many on here seem to think they do.

Yep

I strongly believe in the murder of all CM attendees.

Nice, are you going to do the murdering then big man?

I’m not gonna plough through all the us and them nonsense on this thread, but as the guy above says, look at Leicester CM as a positive example of what one could be.

It’s respectful, it’s fun, it’s got aims and identifiable organisers (something which traditional CM seems to fight shy of, out of the fear that they’ll be seen as an “organised” protest and have to get permission from the police) and – this is a major one – it’s safe enough that people feel able to bring their kids on it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2011/dec/02/critical-mass

There are so many people out there now with negative CM stories that unless you’re starting from scratch you’re really going to have your work cut out.

I haven’t read the whole thread but

I have. And there’s a lot of ignorant, narrowminded prejudice on this forum, is all I can say.

You asked for comments and suggestions. Some as you would always expect are pretty useless, most IMO have been people trying to say that they don’t think CM is the best way to achieve something.

In fairness, most of them have never been on or even witnessed a London CM ride, so forgive me for discounting their ignorant and prejudiced comments.

Personaly, I am not interested in CM as a political force, because it’s not actually meant to be that, but as a fun bike ride with other like-minded people. to that end, I personally found Friday’s ride to be a great success.

Nice, are you going to do the murdering then big man?

No I will do it from orbit. I shall nuke central London.

It also happens that I strongly believe in the nuclear annihilation of central London.

I strongly believe in the murder of all CM attendees.

And on that note, I think there’s sadly no point in continuing this discussion, as some people clearly cannot control themselves from resorting to pathetic abuse.

Thanks to those who did make positive contributions, however.

pathetic

I certainly agree it is rather pathetic.

you’re welcome 😉

so forgive me for discounting their ignorant and prejudiced comments any opinion I don’t agree with.

FTFY. 🙂

There have also been suggestions that tactics designed to cause harm disruption to riders selfish road-hogs is used, through the use of ‘carpet tacks’.

😉

http://www.carpet-tack-criticalmass.co.uk

Personally I think that motorists are slowly becoming more accepting of cyclists on the road, particularly at peak hours. Critical mass arrives like a whirlwind with the bells, hooters, whistles, 80 people riding three abreast in a city centre and in 60 minutes it undoes all this good feeling so every cyclist just goes back to being a menance.

In the last ten years the road infrastructure has been upgraded so much to support sfaer cycling on the roads that “die-ins” and sit down protets etc, hte common traits of the critical mass, are counter productive to cyclists now.

If you want to be treated like traffic, you behave like traffic.

What I’m absolutely baffled by is why on earth, if you wanted to ‘celebrate cycling’, you’d pick the streets of the most congested city in the country to do it?

I prefer this type of thing myself…

Takes all sorts I suppose. Whatever floats your boat 😀

Thanks, I did. For me, CM is simply about getting together with other like-minded people to have a fun, safe and relaxing bike ride in the city. Which I, and hundreds of others, did. To my mind, CM as an idea is not about any political agenda, regardless of those who think it is.

Surely you can do that at any time? I used to commute in London every day and once attended a Critical Mass ride. The reason I never returned was that it did not seem to do anything constructive. It purported to campaign for the rights of cyclists, but did so by willfully obstructing traffic and breaking road rules – not actions which are likely to result in a positive outcome for anyone. It’s great that many people are involved in other action groups which genuinely contribute to improving cycling conditions. So far as I can see – CM does not do that. You’ve received a number of suggestions as to how it could be improved – though seem to choose to ignore them. That makes me wonder who’s being blinkered.

positive contribution = anyone who echoes precisely my opinion

pathetic abuse = anyone/anything else

😆

positive contribution = anyone who echoes precisely my opinion

pathetic abuse = anyone/anything else

http://www.binnerstshirts.com

If you want to be treated like traffic, you behave like traffic.

I was involved with organising a “cycle carnival” in Bristol a month or so ago, on a Sunday afternoon, with a rolling road closure done by marshalls in hi-viz, holding signs saying “Thanks for your patience”. Lots of families out, fancy dress, colourful decorated bikes. Clearly not members of the Black Bloc.

Sad to say that the response of a few drivers was unbelievable – overtaking at 30 mph, revving engines aggressively and inching towards the marshalls who were trying to get everyone across junctions safely. So I’m not sure I agree that if you behave respectfully, everyone will reciprocate. It’s highly unlikely that these people had just had run-ins with Critical Mass, it’s been dropping off in Bristol to the point where it’s practically single attendance figures.

I prefer this type of thing myself…

Well done Binners, that is possibly the bleakest picture I’ve ever seen, complete with what looks like a dead homeless person in the background.

Well done Binners, that is possibly the bleakest picture I’ve ever seen, complete with what looks like a dead homeless person in the background.

It’s grim up North, you know.

OK, I’ve read most of this thread and have also ridden a CM or 2, though admittedly not for a while. You’ve asked for some constructive ideas on how to improve it and I intend to provide some, I’m not trying to insult you or CM in general but please remember that whilst my views may not be the same as yours that does not make them inherently wrong (or indeed right).

1. Decide your aim or a goal. This is the big thing in my opinion. Decide what CM is trying to achieve and make sure this is published on your website and perhaps in the press as well. Without this you risk being accused of the proverbial rebels without a cause. With a clear goal you have some additional credibility, perhaps that you can use to lobby people to get to the goal.
2. In relation to the above, decide if you are an organisation that has a goal or if you’re a bunch of cyclists out on a ride. If the former, see point 1, get a leadership/organisation function in place and build from there. If the latter, stop trying to push any ideas/goals to a wider populous and just say you are a bunch of people riding bikes.
3. Reassess the time and day of your ride. Unless your goal is to cause maximum disruption on a Friday night (and I accept it may well be) may I suggest that Friday evening is not the best time for the ride. You said 200 people were at the last one, pretty poor for a city with a population of 8 million people. Would you have got more if it was over the weekend? With a pre-planned route? On closed roads perhaps?
4. Accept that the cars aren’t going anywhere. Not in the near future anyway, so instead of treating them as the enemy treat them as a group you have to work with, a group who share the same road space as cyclists and perhaps need a little education on cycling. You need them on your side (or at least in a place where they can listen to you), to do that you need to engage them and telling them they are selfish for driving is not the way to do it.
5. You’ll hate this but look at SkyRide for ideas. A friendly, well organised ride and closed roads is IMO a brilliant to get people into cycling (assuming that is part of your goal), couple with the fact that in London you don’t even need to own a bike as there are Boris Bikes you are in a great position to do something positive.
6. Try to remove or at least control the small element who in for a protest and to cause a bit of havoc, irrelevant of what the protest is about. You know they are there, as do I, if you want to bring a more positive light to the rides then they need to be reined in. If you think they are a key element of the “ethos” or CM then fine, bring them to the fore but accept that by doing this you will lessen the power of the protest. This means that, rightly or wrongly, your legitimacy and your claim to represent cyclists in general will be diminished.

Please feel free to flame at your leisure.

positive contribution = anyone who echoes precisely my opinion

pathetic abuse = anyone/anything else

don’t take any of it to heart mikeconnor..

this is the standard argument trotted out by the usual suspects when they have decided to aggressively target a particular poster or theme..

sometimes they just need locking in a shed with 40 hungry squirrels

car drivers, of whom the vast majority have other travel options

some maybe, but not the vast majority.

I did have other options when I resided in London, and initially used them. Sadly they kept going on strike, forcing me to buy a car (too far to ride).

Edit: was typing out a response, but this just about covers it:

It’s great that many people are involved in other action groups which genuinely contribute to improving cycling conditions. So far as I can see – CM does not do that. You’ve received a number of suggestions as to how it could be improved – though seem to choose to ignore them. That makes me wonder who’s being blinkered.

Is mike from CM some sort of masochist? He keeps turning up trying to publicise and get support for his revolution from a bunch of cyclists (STW forumites) who evidently think that him and his project are pretty much a big w*nk.

Why does he do it, I wonder?

It would probably help if they got a sense of humor, at least one they could share

If you only wanted opinions on “How to improve Critical Mass” from people who actually participate in Critical Mass rides already

(you seem to dismiss any comments from people that don’t attend already as “Ignorant and Prejudiced” )

Then is there not some kind of Critical Mass website/Forum that you could have posted your question on.

Rather than trolling a bunch of people who’s opinions you are clearly not the slightest bit interested in listening to 🙄

Interesting videos on the website on page one…seemed to be a few instances of cyclists attempting to pick an argument with taxis by deliberately holding them up while laughing/smirking…if you can distance yourself from them you may improve your image.

Perhaps also ask the videographer not to make a feature of these altercations as it suggests thats one of of your aims. If the videographer disagrees then maybe not post the clip to the home page of the site.

Is mike from CM some sort of masochist? He keeps turning up trying to publicise and get support for his revolution from a bunch of cyclists (STW forumites) who evidently think that him and his project are pretty much a big w*nk.

Ok, one; i am not ‘from’ CM, and do not represent the ride or anyone else on the ride. That some of you seem to think I am is amusing. I think some of you need a figure to attack, and I accept you are unable to engage in any discussion without resorting to such behaviour.

Two; i’m not trying to get any support; that’s entirely up to the individual if they want to come along. The reason I first posted about this issue, and why I joined this forum, was to engage in a discussion to challenge those with ignorant, bigoted and negative views of something very few people on here seem to have any actually experience and knowledge of, certainly not recently anyway. As somebody who has actually attended CM rides more recently than anyone who’s yet posted on this issue, I think I probably do have a slightly more informed view of what actually takes place on the rides. again, it’s amusing that those who’ve never even been on a London CM ride, and in some cases don’t even live in London, think they somehow are informed and enlightened about such matters. Personally, I would refrain from posting about something I had no knowledge or experience of, for fear of looking ignorant and stupid, but to each their own.

The main point seems to boil down to the fact that some of you percieve CM gives all cyclists a bad name. No-one has actually been able to prove this is the case, and I’m sure if we asked groups who walk in rural areas what they thought of mountain bikers, many would have quite negative views towards cyclists. So, many of your views are based purely on personal opinion, in some cases embarrassingly ill-informed, and in no way is there any real valid consensus here, merely the opinions of a few individuals.

don’t take any of it to heart mikeconnor..

this is the standard argument trotted out by the usual suspects when they have decided to aggressively target a particular poster or theme..

Thank you, I won’t. It is clear from even a cursory glance at this forum, that there are entrenched regulars who spend night and day on here, and any deviation from their particular view is met with hostility and resentment. Indeed, some are displaying the very antagonism and confrontational behaviour they accuse CM riders of! And those doing so seem to have completely missed that irony. Maybe these individuals should avoid CM altogether, such is their inability to control and moderate their own behaviour.

And one thing I forgot to mention yesterday, with all the accusations that CM does nothing to help promote the image of cycling (accusations that my own experience finds to be untrue), was that London Assembly member Jenny Jones was on the ride. Now those of you who know anything about cycling in London, willknow that Jenny is directly involved in pushing for better provision for cyclists, and indeed comissioned the initial report for TfL which led to the creation of the Bike Hire Scheme (although nicknamed ‘Boris bikes’, Mr Johnson has actually had very little indeed to do with the development of the scheme). Jenny has also been honoured by the London Cycling Scheme for her services to cycling. Which is probably a fair bit more than most people on here have ever achieved. Many other people who have been on CM rides have similarly campaigned for better provision, through their membership of the CTC, LCC, Sustrans and other organisations.

Which kind of invalidates the argument that CM riders do nothing to promote cycling really.

The reason I first posted about this issue, and why I joined this forum, was to engage in a discussion to challenge those with ignorant, bigoted and negative views of something very few people on here seem to have any actually experience and knowledge of, certainly not recently anyway.

so you joined the forum specifically to defend the CM rides, you talk about them with a perceived authority over everyone else on the forum and yet:

i am not ‘from’ CM, and do not represent the ride or anyone else on the ride. That some of you seem to think I am is amusing.

can you not see how even if you claim not to represent the CM, you joined specifically to discuss the CM and state you know more about it than any other poster.

you sir, are not helping the cause as far as i can see…mainly cos of your attitude.