So how would you improve Critical Mass?

CM Does. So there is the difference. We have no problem with your personal bike ride, just CM.

The ‘inconvenience’ is an unfortunate consequence of the fact that a mass group of cyclists holds up some traffic for a short while. compare this to the ‘inconvenience’ of the danger and pollution caused by cars on our roads, and it soon becomes inconsequential really.

And you have been extremely rude towards me, without any provocation. I have no problem with you expressing your views, but please try not to be so antagonistic and confrontational.

Make it more like the Leicester CM. More families enjoying a safe cycle round the city than anarchic fixed gear riders (though we do turn up). A few miles round the city then everyone goes to the pub. Look at the pictures here, see anything other than people having fun on bikes?

That looks no different to a London CM ride. Good point about more families and kids getting involved though. Would that validate the event more?

Currently a bunch of cyclists set out to deliberately annoy all other road users (including cyclists from what im reading on here)

Neither i, nor the vast majority of other CM riders I’ve met, set out with this intention. The annoyance is simply down to the individual reaction of others. They choose to be annoyed, rather than us deliberately annoying them. There are a small minority on CM who do choose to act in this manner, however, so perhaps public perception is being tainted by the actions of the few, rather than that of ther many?

I’m a bit puzzled. It seems that a key part of the ethos of CM is that it is an unstructured, unorganised group of cyclists exercising their right to freely assemble and go for a ride along an unplanned route. Is there not a fundamental disconnect between the nature of the event and your desire to manage “problems with CM’s ‘image'”, which presumably requires some sort of formal organisation and control?

I’m participating in Pedal for Scotland in a couple of weeks. 9000 cyclists riding between Glasgow and Edinburgh, involving traffic management and road closures. None of this may be relevant to CM, but some of the things that make this event successful are:
– broad participation (all ages, genders and types of bike, lots of families with kids)
– organisation (including planned route, police involvement, traffic management)
– good publicity (lots of information, long term promotion, endorsement by celebs and major politicians, regular email updates providing advice and information)
– integration and legacy (connections with various cycling organisations and information encouraging people to get involved in cycling generally)
– charity link up (raising money for good causes at the same time as promoting cycling)
– positive atmosphere (lots of smiles and encouragement from the public, thousands of cyclists having fun)

I’m sure Mr Murdoch has created the campaign of using existing routes and information, rather than really providing anything new, giving out tabards emblazoned with Sky branding, and used his media companies to promote the events purely through philanthropic altruism.

Mike – Been on a Sky Ride have you? No? Then by your own criteria – you’re in absolutely no position to pass comment on something you clearly know nothing about! 😆

I’ve been on a couple. Once with my 2 kids, when they were ickle, in a trailer. They closed off all the streets in the city centre so we could cycle around our city (you know… the one we live, work, pay taxes for etc, etc, yadda yadda yadda… ) in safety. With loads of like-minded people. Lets, for arguments sake, refer to them as ‘cyclists’.

So… a bit like Critical Mass really, without the bell-endery

Been on a Sky Ride have you? No? Then by your own criteria – you’re in absolutely no position to pass comment on something you clearly know nothing about!

I have actually. I’ve even got a bright pink Skyride tabard. Next question?

They closed off all the streets in the city centre so we could cycle around our city (you know… the one we live, work, pay taxes for etc, etc, yadda yadda yadda… ) in safety. With loads of like-minded people. Lets, for arguments sake, refer to them as ‘cyclists’.

So… a bit like Critical Mass really, without the bell-endery

But with far more disruption to drivers, by the sounds of things. i wonder how drivers felt about having their roads closed off just so a bunch of cyclists could ride around? maybe it was ok because Mr murdoch organised it.

Some interesting ideas, Kcr. I am not part of CM as an ‘organisation’, simply because it isn’t one. Therein lies the fundamental difference between it and what you are doing.

I don’t expect to see many of you at tonight’s ride, but for anyone who likes to find out about things rather than basing their judgement on what they read on the internet etc, come along and enjoy!

So how would you improve Critical Mass?

…..

I have no problem with you expressing your views, but please try not to be so antagonistic and confrontational.

You’ve answered your own question.

maybe it was ok because Mr murdoch organised it.

Yes Mike, everyone thinks its ok because Roop said so. Thats how everything works in our twisted and corrupt society. Even in Manchester 🙄

Or maybe its because

a) They did it on a Sunday afternoon, so weren’t preventing them getting home from work on a Friday evening
b) it was well organised, clearly advertised months in in advance
c) Was generally attended by families, kids etc. Well… people who didn’t give you the vague impression you’d seen them earlier drinking White Lightning in the park, with a dog on a piece of string

drinking cider in the park with a dog on a piece of string

Most people use straws; I am curious how one would imbibe cider through a dog on a piece of string. It sounds like a wild night out though.

dats how we roll alex222.

With no proper aim / organisation / structure it just becomes self defeating and pisses off most people. Its now worse than pointless.

There is also no way of providing constructive feedback – as you have shown so well on here !

I shall avoid it, both as a cyclist and road user.

I imagine its something like the brass eye dog smoking thing.

I don’t expect to see many of you at tonight’s ride, but for anyone who likes to find out about things rather than basing their judgement on what they read on the internet etc,

So, you want peoples opinion as long as they:

Live in London

Have been on a London CM

don’t base their views of things on what they read on the internet, newspapers, magazines and books…

you may want to widen your criteria, as I for one will not be traveling to London to ride my bike, therefore my views on CM are not worthy of being considered by you. Genius.

Mike,
You are arguing against everyone who is stereotyping CM. This is fine, you are right to do that, I do not disagree with you. The stereotypes are clearly a widely held view, even if they are incorrect.

However, you are addressing the image of CM, not whether it is right or wrong to stereotype. Whether the stereotypes are founded or not is irrelevant. They are there, they are what you have to battle.

With this in mind, if you want mass support, you have two options:
– Engage and argue with everyone that holds these views in the manner that you are in this thread.
– Change your image.

Trying to persuade everyone that they are wrong is unproductive. Work with people. Get an aim. Follow through with the other suggestions on this thread. Pull a stunt where everyone dresses up in all kinds of clothing ranging from suits to ponchos to highlight how this is relevant to all. Get smiling kids, hand out free hats and ice-creams.

mikeconnor – Member

…..if there are problems with CM’s ‘image’ then this must be addressed.

So how is a non-organisation with no leader or membership going to agree, let alone implement, any proposed changes to it’s ‘image’ ?

Clean up your image and do something useful like these guys http://lcc.org.uk/pages/about-us.

perhaps organise a lead out ride to the local sky ride instead of a mass blockade of the roads with no aims?

Its doomed to fail, bit like those people who spent months in tents outside a church in London. No clear idea, no clear image, no clear leadership = no result.

When anyone complains about groups of roadies blocking a lane of traffic they get tarred and feathered and told they are in the wrong for being pissed off.

CM do the same thing and CM are in the wrong.

😐

So how is a non-organisation with no leader or membership going to agree, let alone implement, any proposed changes to it’s ‘image’ ?

I mean, if I went around sayin’ I was an empereror a spokesperson for all cyclists just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar pedal spanner at me they’d put me away!

😉

The question

So how would you improve Critical Mass?

The answer

imbibe cider through a dog on a piece of string

Until you grasp that it is empathy that is needed rather than confrontation you are part of the problem.

With no proper aim

I’ve changed my mind. On the other CM thread I defended it and criticised the policing. I’ve even offered constructive, helpful advice IMHO.
I’ve now gone from sympathy and mild support of what I thought was a good but muddled cause, to a realisation of it’s true nature.

It’s become apparent that the actual aims, not just the methods, are the antagonism, confrontation, inconvenience, aggression and division. That’s why it attracts the people it does. The priorities are selfishness and pig-headedness.

improve Critical Mass?

carpet tacks.

Until you change the time of the ride to something less confrontational, most people will continue to think that you are a basket full of bell ends. Slavery was legal for years so banging on about the police and courts not having an issue with you is bovine shi’ite. If the majority of cyclists think you are all a bunch of doglobbers, what hope do you have for getting respect from a wider audience?

Or in other words……fornicate over yonder…..

Use plutonium instead of uranium?

Mike, read what i wrote previously and you’ll see I didn’t say what your reactionary comment makes clear you think. I told you what I think would work. I didn’t comment on the rights or wrongs of that.As i said, it’s easy to marginalise people that arsnt considered mainstream or normal. I didn’t say that that was a goos thing, only that that’s how things are.

fwiw though your persona on here is certainly doing nothing to make me thinkthat my experiences or views of CM aren’t right…

Is mikeconnor Elfnsafety’s new login?

TJ’s more likely

composite – Member

When anyone complains about groups of roadies blocking a lane of traffic they get tarred and feathered and told they are in the wrong for being pissed off.

CM do the same thing and CM are in the wrong.

And when Bogtrotters ride down a mountain they incur the wrath of STW but when STWers do it it’s fine…
Why the f88k mikeconnor is trying to persuade/cajole/reason/argue with the STW massive I don’t know.FFS STWers implode and get themselves banned on a regular basis arguing with each other!

Poke the badger with a spoon.

STWers implode and get themselves banned on a regular basis arguing with each other!

quite often for arguing about correct arguing technique

EDIT: quite often for arguing about the correct way to argue about correct arguing technique..

yunki
Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!! 😉

Listen, I came here for an argument!

Finally a thread Im ostensibly qualified to post on!

Thanks to the kind courtesy of mikeconnor, as someone who has actually ridden a London CM my thoughts actually count. Which is more than can be said of you hopeful northern trouble makers (*looks sternly at the bin-diving one*)

I confess it has been over 10 years I think since I last rode the London CM. And it had it’s fair share of crusties back then too. It was a reasonably pleasant ride out on a sultry summer evening. The guy with the sound system on his trike was nice to have around. There seemed to be less aggro back then – the police were friendly, chatty.

I think the grumpy chap stuck at the lights in his convertible Ferrari probably didnt realise what a bad idea it was throwing insults around when he had nowhere to hide….but he probably still hates cyclists and wont be so stupid again.

Whatever the original intentions of CM (kind of a reclaim the streets lilt really is how it felt to me back then) it is of little value now, and as mentioned above (prob by the flash I think) what has made the greatest impact on the general acceptance of cyclists on London roads is the “Critical Mass” of riders riding everyday, as part of the other traffic that has grown up a bit. Bus drivers plan ahead better and communicate with you. Taxi drivers are civil and respect your road space. Even peds are starting to look for traffic they cant hear coming (but maybe we should thank the Prius for that contribution to Darwinism)

the only time I ever encountered CM in manchester, I was riding down deansgate on my bike, and they were blocking the road, I was trying to get past them so said ‘scuse me guys can I get past please’ and I got abuse ! yes a cyclist from Critical Mass swearing at a non-CM cyclist

this is why I think that Critical Massers are be11ends

Mike Connor – there is a scheme called Bike Friday that operates in manchester where a rider with a tabard acts as a guide for other riders, a predetermined route and start time to encourage less confident road users

this is what you should be doing

If CM are not feeling the love on a cycling forum, you dont have to be Einstein to work out how the rest of the country feels.

And THIS is the problem. We’re simply not welcome on the roads.

I applaud anyone who attempts to give an influential voice to the cycling community. It doesn’t even matter if they **** it up. At least they’re trying in the first place. And here’s a guy, asking for advice on how they can improve the way their voice is presented, and it’s met with a tirade of abuse from angry drivers, on a cycling forum.

There’s really no hope.

I posted the following suggestion before somwhere and got flamed for it. If CM is aimed at increasing awareness of cyclists for safety or provision etc then they are having to overcome individual driver responses to having to perhaps delay for a few seconds when overtaking a cyclist etc.

Now what if CM could show how cycling rather than contributing to the congestion mess actually improves matters?
What if on one day in a year ALL cycle commuters who have a car drive to work with their bikes on the roof just to illustrate how bad the situation could be
prepared for a flaming…

At least they’re trying in the first place. And here’s a guy, asking for advice on how they can improve the way their voice is presented, and it’s met with a tirade of abuse from angry drivers, on a cycling forum.

There’s really no hope.

Have you read any of this?
There has been very little abuse and a lot of constructive comments made. All of which the OP dismissed.

And THIS is the problem. We’re simply not welcome on the roads.

Not my general experience there are good and bad.

I applaud anyone who attempts to give an influential voice to the cycling community. It doesn’t even matter if they **** it up.

Is this what CM is about they don’t seem to know themselves.

At the moment it seems to be a battle with Motor Cycle News to be the most persecuted group of road users rather than do something useful about it.

Some simple advice I was once given though…

Don’t Sh** on your own doorstep

So this critical mass thing, is it like car cruising but for cyclists ? From what i understand it’s the 2 wheeled equivalent of getting in your souped-up corsa and driving around aimlessly pissing other road users off and claiming what your doing isn’t technically illegal.

I’m a great believer in cycling as a mode of transport. I cycle in some form or another most days. I once went on a CM ride (in York), and eventually left in protest at the irritating people who took charge of pissing off other motorists.

the leicester critical mass is a fun monthly ride around leicester that ends at the pub. if people want to protest and cause trouble (which i have never seen or heard of) they are asked to leave. even the guys who organise it are not sure why its called a critical mass. i think it was just a convenient name. to be honest, the arsehats in london give our ride a bad name.

Hi, sorry for the delay in posting a report, but I simply don’t have the time and inclination to spend anywhere near a fraction of the amount of time some of you seem to on here (do you actually ever find the time to ride your bikes?). I’m limited to lunch hours and the odd hour here and there.

There has been very little abuse and a lot of constructive comments made. All of which the OP dismissed

I must refute this claim, as it’s simply not true. there has been widespread ‘abuse’ in the form of derogatory comments about the ‘type’ of people who atend CM rides, even sadly resulting in homophobia and general xenophobia. There have also been suggestions that tactics designed to cause harm to riders is used, through the use of ‘carpet tacks’. I can’t believe tat anyone who genuinely cares about cycling could make such a remark. And most of the comments clearly come from peole who have no experience of CM rides, yet express unjustified ignorant prejudice toward those who participate. There have been a small number of positive comments, for which I am grateful.

well, I was at the ride on Friday, and I must say I was really surprised at the sheer number of people taking part. I would estimate there was at least 2 or 3 hundred, perhaps more. And the ‘type’ of person ranged from smart city types to trendy youngsters on skateboards. There were even a few children along, including one little girl on the back of a tandem. So, a wonderfully diverse grouop of individuals, far from the stereotype genralised image some of you seem to have. Several people i spoke to said they had come along after seeing news reports of people being kettled and arrested for riding their bikes, and were angry at the actions of the police that evening.

We rode through Bloomsbury, and then down the Euston road and Marylebone, before turning back into central London along Edgware road. Due to the sheer size of the group, the ‘peloton’ did stretch out for some distance. Other cyclists joined en route, swelling the size of the ride still further. the atmosphere was great, everyone seemed relaxed and happy, and I had some nice chats with other people I’d never met before, so it had a lovely social feel to it. One guy I chatted to said several friends of his who hadn’t ridden in central London before, ahd taken up cycling regularly after coming along to one ride.

Obviously some delays were caused to other road users and pedestrians at times, but this is an inevitable consequence of such a ride. The vast majority of motorists seemed fairly relaxed about things, and some even beeped their horns in support! i was very pleasantly surprised at how it was recieved to be honest. Loads of bystanders were asking what it was all about, and they all seemed to think it was a great idea. i even saw one couple quickly grab hire bikes and join in. I certainly didn’t see any real anger and vitriol aimed towards us, unlike the kind i’ve witness on this thread. We endavoured to alow cars and pedestrians through wherever possible, and a police van managed to clear the group a lot more quickly than it would have through motor traffic. There was no police involvment that I saw.

There were unfortunately two nasty incidents i saw though. One involving a scooter rider who, instead of filtering through the riders who would easily have let him pass, decided to pick a fight with one rider, and wasted several minutes shouting and cursing. Pointless really. And i witnessed an irate car driver deliberately drive into the back of a cyclist, destroying his back wheel. The cyclist was merely trying to get the guy, who was driving very aggressively, to slow doen and allow people to clear the way in front. Instead, he was then surrounded by dozens of people whp photographed the car and bike. It was hjust outside Westminster Magistrates Court, where there are several cameras. For a moment of selfish madness, the driver will undoubtedly be looking at a fine and possible further sanction. Why he thought he had more right of passage than hundreds of cyclists show the small-minded selfish mentality of some idiots. His behavuiur was not at all representative of the majortiy of drivers though, fortunately. that moment did creat an uneasy atmostphere, and many people were angry at his actions, but i and several others managed to get people to calm down, and eventually everyone went on their way.

So, I found it a very pleasant, safe and enjoyable experience, as i imagine did most of the other people there. And my girlfriend and some of her firends will hopefully be joining us on the next one, so that’s even more people encouraged to join in a bike ride in central London with lots of other like-minded folk. a great success inmy book, and as valid as any other cycling campaign/activity.

Shame none of you could make it though; you might have enjoyed yourselves instead of being angry on the internet.