So how would you improve Critical Mass?

The London Critical Mass ride meets tonight at 6-6.30pm on the South Bank just under Waterloo Bridge. come along, and find out for yourselves what it’s all about, rather than reading possible blinkered, ignorant and biased comments elsewhere.

This is not a thread for a debate on the validity and merits of CM, we’ve done that already. I’d rather keep this one civil and positive, if possible. Many people expressed concern about how CM was bieng percieved by the general public, and that it portrayed a negative image of cycling. Those are valid concerns, although there are opposing views that see it as more a statement of cyclists being an important group of road users, who deserve to have their say as much as anyone else.

The date and time are well established, the police and courts have no issues with this, and it seems an appropriate time for cyclists to get together for a ride around London. So, suggestions it takes place at 3am on a Sunday morning in Hertfordshire or wherever are worthless.

Personally, I do think that a very small minority go along with antagonism in mind, and this minority cause problems for the rest of us. If these people are challenged, and dissuaded from engaging in antagonistic behaviour, then maybe this problem can be addressed. This can only happen if enough people stand up and make themselves heard though. Accusations that the event has been ‘hijacked’ by those with particular agendae are mainly wrong; it’s an event attended by all sorts from across the cultural and political spectrum. The only real ‘campaign’ the riders have in common is to push for better conditions for London cyclists. This has borne fruit, as many who are involved are also involved in lobbying and campaigning for such improved consideration, and some have been involved in the establishment of more cycle lanes, mere awareness schemes and nationwide campaigns such as Sustrans.

But if there are problems with CM’s ‘image’ then this must be addressed. How can things be improved? What would you, as cyclists, like to see happen on CM rides?

Thanks in advance for your comments, and I hope to see some of you tonight!

Ride Safe.

You might want to start with your website! http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk/main.html

Brilliant. Give me suggestions, but only those that conform to my narrow guidelines 🙁

Give me suggestions, but only those that conform to my narrow guidelines

Yep, anyone else is just blinkered, ignorant and biased.

😐

Personally, I do think that a very small minority go along with antagonism in mind

Surely the whole point of CM is to antagonize – and I say that in a good way. If they are not providing a bit of niggle, then what is the point?

You could improve it by removing anyone on a singlespeed, a brompton, vegans, lesbians and tweed wearing twonks.

Oh wait, that would mean changing the name to critical less too! Hmm, leave it with me

tweed wearing twonks

Good name for a band

wanting better conditions for cyclists is one thing.

Riding round one of the busiest cities in the world, very slowly, with no regard for other road users is another.

EDIT: i ride my bike to and from work every day, from Whitley Bay to Newcastle. about 20 miles a day. I also do big rides every weekend. I see all sorts of car / van / bus / taxi drivers on my travels, from friendly and courteous to rude and aggressive to the totally unaware.

Critical Mass IMO does two things, it makes the angry, rude and aggressive drivers more angry, aggressive and rude, and it makes the friendly and courteous drivers (the vast majority IMO) angry, aggressive and rude. You deliberately stop people going about their business in the manner they want to, on a Friday night, when the majority of them want to be at home with their families or getting ready for a night out. Which IMO is totally selfish.

Whoever ‘designed’ that website needs taking outside and shooting!

Anyway Mike. I note you’re back to square one on the subject, and you’ve taken in precisely none of the comments on previous threads

The London Critical Mass ride meets tonight at 6-6.30pm on the South Bank just under Waterloo Bridge. come along, and find out for yourselves what it’s all about, rather than reading possible blinkered, ignorant and biased comments elsewhere.

as long as you agree with all my opinions on the subject 🙄

I mean… seriously? You’re asking for opinions, which you’re immediately going to dismiss as “blinkered, ignorant and biased” if they differ to yours

Critical Mas are a bunch of self-defeating twonks who give us all a bad name in the eyes of the general public. If they wanted to improve it, they could all just go out and ride their bikes, without winding people up

You know… a bit like the rest of us do?

What would you, as cyclists, like to see happen on CM rides?

Them all to grow up and get on with their lives?

Them all to grow up and get on with their lives?

This really. Aiming for confrontation pisses people off and losses support for the rest of us.

Anyway Mike. I note you’re back to square one on the subject, and you’ve taken in precisely none of the comments on previous threads

I have. Which is why I started a thread on how to improve matters. People like you (aren’t you one of those who’s never even witness a London CM ride?) make all sorts of spurious claims, yet offer no solutions to any of the issues you mentioned. In just a few minutes, people have made derogatory (and in one case possibly homophobic) comments about CM riders, yet no-one has actually come up with any positive suggestions.

Brilliant. Give me suggestions, but only those that conform to my narrow guidelines

The only ‘guidelines’ are that CM happens, at the specific time and date, which has been accepted by the police and courts for nearly two decades now. That’s a given. So, with this in mind, how can things be improved?

Who are we and what are our aims? We are not sure

I’d get that sorted first of all.

We have no organisers and no planned routes

Then that.

this website does not try to be representative of CM in any way

Maybe when you’ve sorted the above, make a website that *does* try to be representative of CM.

Either outlaw it entirely, or make it a properly organised ride, with a pre-determined route. No need for the nonsense about it being either a protest or not a protest, etc.

Positive suggestion: don’t do it any more. Put your time and energy into campaigning properly for better cycle facilities.

So, with this in mind, how can things be improved?

How about you all ride single file in a polite, considerate manner at a less than busy time?

Either outlaw it entirely, or make it a properly organised ride, with a pre-determined route

Meanwhile, the real critical mass is being achieved my the growing numbers of cyclists using the roads every day. Each morning on my commute, I see thousands of ’em. I would wager that not one of them has been in any way influenced by CM.

Cycling is becoming more popular. That’s the real critical mass. Long may it continue.

Many people expressed concern about how CM was bieng percieved by the general public, and that it portrayed a negative image of cycling. Those are valid concerns…

Yep, so address these ‘valid’ concerns – don’t tart it up around the edges. In the eyes of what appears to be a pretty sizeable majority, CM is detrimental to the overall impression of cyclists.

The only real ‘campaign’ the riders have in common is to push for better conditions for London cyclists. This has borne fruit, as many who are involved are also involved in lobbying and campaigning for such improved consideration, and some have been involved in the establishment of more cycle lanes, mere awareness schemes and nationwide campaigns such as Sustrans.

I’d guess it was lobbying and getting involved on planning committees and local govt consultations which got these improvement – not riding round town slowly and whistling?

Thanks for the advert for your ride, but I won’t be there.

i ride my bike to and from work every day, from Whitley Bay to Newcastle

Yet you profess to know how CM in London affects drivers?

In my experience of actually attended many rides over the years, CM has rarely been the cause of any trouble. One or two drivers have become irate at being ‘held up’, and sought to take matters into their own hands. The majority accept that CM is a monthly event and patiently wait until the procession of riders has moved on, which rarely takes more than a few minures. The total gridlock caused that some of you seem to be imagining is non-existent. If this were indeed the case, I’m sure the police and relevant authorities would act accordingly. The reality is that you are more likely to be delayed for longer because of other traffic. As i mentioned in the previous thread, an accident somewhere like the Blackwall tunnel causes far more delay than CM ever does.

Aiming for confrontation pisses people off and losses support for the rest of us.

Who is ‘the rest of us’? CM riders, as already mentioned, have been involved in capaigning for, and successful in getting improved cycling facilities. The aim is not to be confrontational, but assert our rights to use our roads safely with others. I think you are getting assertiveness and confrontation confused.

when the majority of them want to be at home with their families or getting ready for a night out. Which IMO is totally selfish.

Maybe each car driver, aware that CM will be happening, could use alternative routes, or perhaps not use their cars at all. This is London, where most car journeys could easily be made using alternative means. So maybe it’s the car drivers who are the selfish ones, as they are the overwhleming main cause of traffic congestion in London.

* ponders at the option of a Govt ePetition aimed at getting CM banned *

CM Press Officer, Mike – Can you not see? Cycling is developing and growing, becoming ever more popular and all of this is nothing to do with CM. It’s achieved the sum total of diddly squat.

I’d guess it was lobbying and getting involved on planning committees and local govt consultations which got these improvement – not riding round town slowly and whistling?

Thanks for the advert for your ride, but I won’t be there.

Agreed.

aren’t you one of those who’s never even witness a London CM ride?

Yes. Cos I live in Manchester. But as I stated on that thread, I witnessed the CM idiots annoying people in Manchester every time they were out. Have I missed something? Are the provincial northern CM’ers somehow radically different from the fancy Metropolitan types?

You were in danger of becoming ever-so-slightly patronising on your last thread. Glad to see you’re not making that mistake again eh? 😉

Mike

Glad you came to hear our opinions.

i ride my bike to and from work every day, from Whitley Bay to Newcastle

Yet you profess to know how CM in London affects drivers?

Can’t speak for them, but many of us are London riders and/or drivers than have moved elsewhere. London is not uniquely special in the transportation department.

In my case, Putney, Bristol, Southampton, Netherlands and Germany. Quite a reasonable experience of cycling and driving to have an opinion I think. Possibly more so than someone only having lived, cycled and driven in London.

Positive suggestion: don’t do it any more

Thanks for the suggestion; forgive us if we choose to ignore it and get together to ride our bikes in our own city, the one where our council taxes pay for the roads we choose to cycle on.

So, ‘consideration’ for most of you seems to involve cyclists just not getting in the way of car drivers? Why? What consideration do most of the car drivers, who do have alternative modes of transport available, give to cyclists? Do car drivers have priority over cyclists in London?

Meanwhile, the real critical mass is being achieved my the growing numbers of cyclists using the roads every day. Each morning on my commute, I see thousands of ’em. I would wager that not one of them has been in any way influenced by CM.

Whereas my experience, and that of others, is completely different. Whose point of view is more valid?

make it a properly organised ride, with a pre-determined route

Why does it have to be organised? Why can’t people just get together with others, to ride their bikes in the city they live, work and pay taxes in?

What is the difference between a group of say 10 or 20 cyclists temporarily holding up motor traffic on a narrow country lane, and CM, other thjan the size of group?

Intent Mike. one group is cycling the other is JUST being disruptive whilst on a bicycle

I struggle with long sentences after the stroppy stuff

Make it a festival of cycling – arrange a permanent type base [ or rolling across London] to say help cyclists , service bikes, offer advice on security, security code bikes?
Try and somehow engage drivers- offer guided rides with loan bike for car driverss or taxi drivers to see what it is like?
Try and get some of the confrontational nobbers [ however few there are] to see that it harms rather than helps the cause
Educate , engage and promote basically – this means to car drivers as much, if not more, than to cyclist.
leaflets on the Highway code re two abreast and how wide to pass?
Leaflets to cyclist on how RLJ harms our image – make sure both groups know you are doing both sides.

As noted I agree with your aims broadly but just think it is counter productive

You may be being optimistic expecting anything beyond cynicism from here.

LA-LA-LA-I’M-NOT-LISTENING!!!!!!!!!!!

Whereas my experience, and that of others, is completely different. Whose point of view is more valid?

Count the number on your protest/celebration/whatever tonight.

Then count the number of people commuting by bike every day in London.

Why can’t people just get together with others, to ride their bikes in the city they live, work and pay taxes in?

They do. Every day and every week, not just once/month 😉
They also do the same all over the country, and in other countries.
They just don’t call it Critical Mass, or get legal judgements to declare it not a protest. They just get on a bike with like minded bike riders, and ride.

What consideration do most of the car drivers, who do have alternative modes of transport available, give to cyclists?

What ever it was/is, it’ll be less after tonight. You reap what you sow.

Taken fro the Critical Mass website:
Who are we and what are our aims?
We are not sure, opinions seem to differ. There are probably as many aims of CM as there are participants. Each individual comes there with his or her own idea of what it’s about, and the sum of this makes up the Mass. We have no organisers and no planned routes and this website does not try to be representative of CM in any way.

First port of call is to get it organised. Whether that be a planned route or whether to become a proper lobby group. Because what you are doing at Critical Mass is not positive. You are just pissing people off. Not all publicity is good. The idiots getting themselves arrested at the Olympics openning ceremony was very damaging. Just a bunch of anarchists on bikes. But they were tagged as cyclists.

I’ve seen critical mass from both sides, as a car driver (without a choice but to use the car that day) and as a cyclist (whilst working) and it serves no other purpose other than to piss London off.

Will there be a critical mass ride tonight then in Manchester?

my concern is that the ‘car driving public’ do not receive the message. however what the message is you say

We are not sure

so how do you expect the public to read it other than rent-a-mob on bikes. the outward message becomes cyclists = trouble makers

not demanding respect as legitimate road users.

critical commutes seem a much better vehicle 😉 to actually communicate that message.

Will there be a critical mass ride tonight then in Manchester?

fraid so 🙄

Note the choice of hipster/fixie/bell-end chariot illustrated on the poster. Very appropriate

Thank you KJunkyard, I appreciate the effort you made to offer some positive ideas.

I think awareness of issues such as RLJing is a great idea actually. The problem with such an idea, is that it takes organisation and resources. I’m not sure if many people would want to take on such a responsibility. But maybe this is something that could be organised by the police and local authorities? So instead of handing out bail condition sheets, the police could instead hand out information.

The problem with any permanent organisational side of things, is that as soon as you go down that route, you involve all sorts of legal issues, and then it becomes far more constrained. The appeal of CM is that it is ‘free’ of such constrains, and simply follows existing legislation.

Cos I live in Manchester. But as I stated on that thread, I witnessed the CM idiots annoying people in Manchester every time they were out. Have I missed something?

Yes. We’re talking about the London CM rides. Of which you have no experience yet feel qualified to comment. As do several others, it appears.

Glad you came to hear our opinions.

In my short time here, it is apparent that this forum is not very representative of all cyclists. Hence, I do not expect to find a wealth of opinion which spans all of society.

Looks like it’s actually CLITICAL MASS this evening.

http://www.ibikemcr.org.uk/?q=node/5716

Following the ride Pedal MCR shall be hosting a B I K E party for feminists in their space with riot grrrl bands and DJS, food and fun. All feminists (whatever your gender identity) welcome.

CaptainFlashheart has it pretty much nailed.

Critical Mass is no longer relevant. Twenty years ago when there were far fewer regular commuters in London CM had a purpose in raising awareness. Now that job is better served by the greater number of cyclists on the road every day.

Who are we and what are our aims? We are not sure

If CM isn’t sure of it’s aim or its purpose then I don’t really see why it should get my support, what would I be supporting? If there was a clear stated aim to work towards then you might find it appeals to more people. A good example of this from another area is Surfers Against Sewage. They do all the slightly oddball stunts which get them media coverage and raise awareness but they also have very clear stated aims that they work towards.

It’s not enough to say some of our people do this or that, those individuals may well have taken the same actions regardless of their affiliation with CM. What has actually been achieved directly by CM as a collective? Given that I’ve ridden in, out and around London for the last twenty years and have stumbled across CM rides on a few occasions I reckon I am probably more aware than the average Londoner and yet i honestly don’t know what do you do other than randomly ride around town a bit?

One look at the bike on that advert and assumptions are being formed. 🙄

c

ritical commutes seem a much better vehicle to actually communicate that message.

Yes, such ideas have been tried, and have actually been quite successful in some places, which have led to improved facilities for cyclists. I can’t recall the details, but a ‘bike bus’ of many cyclists sharing a route in one city led to the city authorities creating dedicated cycling routes. This idea is a direct descendent of Critical Mass. The same idea, but with the purpose of improving cycle commuting. Could we adopt such an idea here in London and our large cities?

So how would you improve Critical Mass?
The date and time are well established

Disestablish them. Friday evening is the most likely time to piss off people trying to get home.
Knock it back 12 hours and you’ll achieve that change in “perception” of CM that you seem to want.
If it’s too late for today, or there’s a point to be made after the last one, then talk to some about changing it for next time. What have you got to lose?

You seem to agree that there are problem’s with the “image” of CM. Why do you think that is?
If the fight is more important than the result, carry on as you are.