See,i KNEW you had to sleep sometime Cougar!

Fortunately, no fires started. 😀

tjagain – Member

I think its more something in the way I post really annoys some folk but not others. I have my theories why this is but voicing them would certainly lead to a ban.

Your theory would be different to mine then, as I can’t see why you would get banned for stating it! That would rather suggest you believe everyone else is in the wrong? Since you raised the subject I hope you will accept the following as constructive feedback rather than anything nasty.

Lets assume that the problem is your communication style, rather than a genuine character flaw. IMO The reason some people are ‘annoyed’ by you is your stubborn lack of self awareness (as stated above this is exaggerated by the way you write things, where we don’t experience the nuances of face to face conversation). The way this comes across to (some) others is that believe things are facts, and can’t accept anyone arguing against you, even when you are clearly wrong. You are not the only one by a looooong way (myself included), but certainly one of the worst. You have said previously you would like to mend your ways, and become a better person, so I hope this offers some insight, even if it is from just one person. I’ve got a feeling as many people will agree as will disagree. If you are as thick skinned as you say, you will have no problem ignoring it (its just one persons opinion after all).

Errmmm – voicing that theory is what lead to my last ban 🙂

Yes its a mix of my combative nature, firmly held but sometimes unpopular opinions, lack of nuance in text based debate and my pigheadedness.

Its also that when in those debates I struggle to see the wood from the trees. I think my post is very clear andthenothers take meanings from it I simply did not mean

is your communication style, rather than a genuine character flaw

I would say personal characteristic rather than flaw but I can accept its an issue created by me.

I am actually very self aware but obviously this simply remains invisible in debate on here.

I have written out posts, revised them, left it to sit for a while while I ponder, post it and then find others see something very differnt to what I intend when they read it.

Errmmm – voicing that theory is what lead to my last ban

Is that because you were aiming the theory at someone else rather than yourself :lol:? If so, it’s not the same theory!

Cougar – Moderator
I know you lot are good at killing them but you weren’t doing it in your sleep used to lot in UK early hours of the morning or mid afternoon here which would all disappear when the first mod woke up
Yeah, that’s the only blind spot really. Not a lot we can do about that short of recruiting an Eastern European Moderator

Or, mebbies one in the ‘other’ +12 hr timezone? Who could fill that role? 🙂

I am actually very self aware but obviously this simply remains invisible in debate on here.

Again, purely in the interest of self-help, can I suggest the following: Have a look back at what you posted in the recent IQ thread (from a few weeks ago?). What do you think that says about your self-awareness to others?

I am actually very self aware

Are you also very humble, probably the most humble person you know? Oh & 😉

TJ bating certainly seems to be a thing which is wrong but you do come over as rather bombastic at times which is bound to get people’s backs up.

People who spend their lives bickering about brexit etc on a mtn bike forum have got to be among the most tedious broken people in society so I don’t really see the problem with them coming on here to live out their inner alpha males needs,they probably get beaten by their wives or bullied in work,jeez give them a break to let off steam.

Tj has made some rather good posts in some other threads I have read, just for some balance here.

TJ can be a pain but it is malice free. Some on here are here ONLY to wind people up and that is what there every post is about

The mods know who they are just like the forum does
Would make more sense if folk just did not respond to them tbh.

I think if any individual feels the need to be more right to defeat a group of strangers and win the internet, there is a good chance their personality is lacking in some areas. Whilst the internet is there for all to use, some people should really consider how they are using it, and what this is adding to their life and that of others.

On other forums the thread starter/op shoulders more responsibility for the quality of the thread, establishes clear rules and takes a degree of ownership for the thread. Now obviously STW has something of an in-joke culture concerning joke threads or crap threads but regarding political or religious threads it works well.

The upshot of this is there are more big threads and fewer “I had a brain fart about Trump” style threads. Less threads means less threads to moderate, and if the thread starter/OP takes ownership and reminds posters who are going off topic about the thread rules then posters can will generally listen or it becomes a mod issue. Example of rules would be keep on topic obviously, don’t post memes, rambling videos, massive quotes, post your own thoughts not walls of quoted text etc – these tend to make for better debate and less rabbit holes.

It also helps with searching and information gathering and research – ie if there was one thread about camper vans and van conversions it’s much better keeping all that crap together for people who want to see old builds and info posted, and it also avoids creating another thread about “what van” to be moderated.

Another thing is the style of modding. Moderators of other forums will steer the thread (as per thread rules) referencing the thread rules (not the forum rules) and will point out when individuals are going down a bickering tangent. Here things are let run until arguments become heated or personal and then bans are required.

Unless there’s some kind of subtle shift in the forum structure, forum culture or just more mods and less cliques these things will just keep on happening.

Sounds awful. I prefer “consistent” modding by the same team, not trying to follow the rules for each thread.

Fewer threads about the same topic would be good though. Mind you, that way lies all the sub-forum nonsense.

I guess that if folk really wanted that then they’d gravitate to those sites.

As this seems to be a thread about TJ:

That’s a good summary I’d say – and given issues with text based comms I should point out I don’t mean that in a negative way at all.

This. I have to admit to having crossed swords with TJ in the past, though that happens very little nowadays (since we met in RL? though I think we came to an understanding well before that). Yes I did find his posting style irritating when that happened – the big problem though is that almost always he has a valid point, even when it’s one I disagree with. The trouble is that his obstinate nature means he won’t back down, and dare I suggest that those without the skills to successfully debate against him (even when their opinion was as valid if not more valid) have tended to fall back on writing things which explicitly break forum rules. Which ended up in lots of reported posts, everybody getting upset and ultimately in a long holiday for the person who didn’t actually break the forum rules (apart from the one about arguing).

Is that a fair summary?

Though to widen the point, ISTM that a lot of the issue with some of these threads is the “subtle insult” from those who know their way around the forum rules. That and passive aggression from the same people. Posts made largely for the purpose of getting a response which does explicitly break the rules – the poster being insulting with carefully chosen words then gleefully reports.

Indeed – that’s the impression I have, and that one of the posters in question is a serial reporter of people who don’t choose their words carefully enough when they call him out (amusingly, my most recent reported post was when I didn’t choose my words carefully enough when pointing out this behaviour). I’m thinking that whilst you don’t want to discourage people from reporting, the use of reporting as a weapon in disputes (which don’t involve explicitly insulting comments) is one of the biggest issues here. Personally I very, very rarely use that report button – probably mostly to report spam, occasionally to report breaking of forum rules, but I can only think of one recently when I reported a post having a go at me when it was the latest in a sequence – usually I just ignore such things.

Well pull your finger out then.

Have a hard limit of 500 posts per thread. Easy.

gah – just realised that I was the OP for the Farron thread which seems to be the current arguathon. Sorry folks!

and deny us moments of glory like this http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/1000 ? 😉

What about all those people who don’t read threads with click-baity titles like “here’s the deal”? Not me obvs.

futon river crossing – Member
Have a hard limit of 500 posts per thread. Easy.

My dear old things, it's STW TMS!

Some things last longer than 500 posts

and http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/f1-2017-bound-to-contain-spoilers

scotroutes – Member

Sounds awful. I prefer “consistent” modding by the same team, not trying to follow the rules for each thread.

Could you elaborate as to what sounds awful about people posting their own opinions and not posting memes, walls of quoted text or rambling videos or external links, particularly on political or religious threads?

Fewer threads about the same topic would be good though. Mind you, that way lies all the sub-forum nonsense.

No you just use the thread as a sub forum, in the same way the brexit thread is essentially a brexit sub forum.

I guess that if folk really wanted that then they’d gravitate to those sites.

Not so long ago I remember it was the done thing on stw to have a thread to post pictures of attractive ladies each Friday. If there’s an effort to change, change can be made. I’m not the one complaining about the work loads of the moderators, just trying to be constructive and point out possible changes which could alleviate the need for moderation.

Some things last longer than 500 posts

Test cricket lasts longer than most things to be fair

Expanding on my previous suggestion, keep tables of who is reported the most, and who does the most reporting.
Every week ban the top spots for three months.
You’ll get rid of the biggest arsehole and the biggest fairy. 🙂
The more I think about it, the better this seems to be.
Do it! 😀

Wouldn’t that be an almost permanent ban for you?

STW will eat itself.

STW will eat itself.

….washed down with some sort of artisan craft beer from a hipster microbrewery.

No pudding.

scotroutes – Member

Wouldn’t that be an almost permanent ban for you?

I honestly don’t know.
I would be amused to learn that I was reported that regularly, I doubt STWers are that delicate.
The beauty of the system is that the reporter as well as the reportee get banned so spats should be reduced exponentially.
It’s genius I tells thee. 😀

ETA: How else will these people know that they are the biggest dick/pussy of the forum?
Are there any downsides to this at all? I think not.

Jimjam that sounds a terrible idea. A forum is a conversation so it can and should be allowed to drift away. It’s not a official meeting where we need a chair to step in if someone moves away from the subject.

We have had the situation where some folk just take to posting random images in order to disrupt the conversation though. Indeed I (in a former guise) once received a ban for this. It seems to be ignored now.

Jimjam that sounds a terrible idea. A forum is a conversation so it can and should be allowed to drift away. It’s not a official meeting where we need a chair to step in if someone moves away from the subject.

Agreed. I belong to another forum which considers itself “really friendly and accommodating”. I find it sterile and over-moderated, although there’s some interesting content which keeps me there. One of the tactics is to lock any thread which goes off topic, immediately. It’s absolutely infuriating as it often curtails some interesting (if only vaguely relevant) discussion.

It seems to be ignored now.

Guess it’s not a priority then

Even tho I would probably suffer from it as apparently I was the most reported poster pre my long ban ( hopefully not now) I think firmer interventione earlier would help stop threads descending into a bitchfest.

IE warn them once that they are approaching the edge and publicly so everyone can see then next step out of line on that thread ban.

We have had the situation where some folk just take to posting random images in order to disrupt the conversation though. Indeed I (in a former guise) once received a ban for this. It seems to be ignored now.

Depends how out of hand it gets, if it’s clear it’s done to troll they may get a warning. That still happens.

IE warn them once that they are approaching the edge and publicly so everyone can see then next step out of line on that thread ban.

At times we do that.

The issue Cougar was refering to more was to do with the EU thread where we were getting regular reports along the lines of.

“What he’s saying isn’t true, can you stop him from posting these?”

When we’ve tried to look at some cases it was just a mess so our patience was running out. I’ve been pretty inactice over the last few months for personal reasons as a mod, Cougar and other have held the fort. The said thread causing these daily issues is tiring, there was even reports on Xmas Eve.

all the more reason to make me a mod! I am so moderate I would be the bestest ever bigly time!

In all seriousness the mods make the forum and its a difficult balancing act generally done well.

Like a watchi a rugby game I complain about the decisions at the time often but once I step back a bit they are usually right.

apple for the mod sir? Can I ingratiate myself any further? ( apart from stopping being a stroppy cow ) 😉

The issue Cougar was refering to more was to do with the EU thread where we were getting regular reports along the lines of.

“What he’s saying isn’t true, can you stop him from posting these?”Ah, that’s a tough one. We really can’t expect the mods to be fact checkers.

Ironic that this thread is now at 5 pages and still going…..

We have had the situation where some folk just take to posting random images in order to disrupt the conversation though.

Well somebody had to do it.

How else will these people know that they are the biggest dick/pussy of the forum?
Are there any downsides to this at all?

Yes… Assholes

.

On the EU thread the constant posting of clear untruths by some that they continue with no matter how much its refuted by links and facts leads to folk getting very exasperated and then either reposting the untrue posts ( not me) or having exhausted all the options in terms of refuting them intellectually they resort to ridicule which then generates more reports for the ridiculing posts ( at a guess)

Hence my solution being to intervene earlier. ” Fred stop posing nonsense and Bill stop calling him a liar please or you will both be banned”