SNP. You LOST, get over it

@kona, I lived and worked in the US for 3 years. The immigration issues in the US are due to the huge land borders they have and the amount of illegals who cross over. As an island we have a big advantage, we just need to get people to fill in a form and apply for a VISA. Clegg today said he was in favour of adding exit controls, a sound idea and one many countries have. The fact is we don’t even know if people over stay

it’s also due to the total ineptitude of the administration, the hopeless cloggin up of the system for family member visas, the stupidity of AOS procedures that quadruple the number of contacts that have to be made between customer and administration… the US immigration system is not based on skills testing….and there are literally millions of people who are not entitled to live and work in the US who do

I have no idea why you would use the US as a model for a desirable skills based immigration system. it’s not well-administered, it’s not focused on skills and it’s not any good at controlling immigration. you might as well use chocolate teapots as a model for hot beverage dispensing.

Doesn’t fit the establishment / hereditary sterotype of the House of Lords

I appreciate she’s “establishment”, to me that means she has the right experience and track record for the job

Which is it? She is a political quangocrat, she was appointed to the Lords to serve in Blair’s government and has since then held a number of supranational jobs which are given to superannuated politicians as thank yous – see Lansley after the next election. She may be very good for all I know, but don’t fool yourself, these are nothing but political appointments, typical of sterotypical establishment figures who are in the Lords.

I’d like to know how people propose to control immigration from the eu? Are we going to start asking for visas for everyone coming here for a 2 week holiday?

I’d like to see debate on immigration based on verifiable facts rather than the drivel we get from The Daily Fail and The Tellemcraph

Yeah but remember, the current UK government’s stated position is that you shouldn’t base your immigration policy on quantitative evidence.

I’d like to know how people propose to control immigration from the eu? Are we going to start asking for visas for everyone coming here for a 2 week holiday?

We can’t, that’s UKIPs point. Freedom of movement is written into the EU treaties.

We see again repeated here the view the immigration issue is framed by the Daily Mail and the Telegraph, as I must have posted dozens of times that totally misses the point. Its what people are seeing in their local towns and communities which is forming opinion. The political parties are now taking it seriously but its taken them 2 years to wake up to it.

As for quantitative evidence we have very poor estimates for immigration as we don’t actually keep records (eg no exit checks). I read yesterday a piece which suggested the UK population was close to 70m not the 60m the figure the authorities use for the reasons I gave. The research I have seen doesn’t even attempt to divide out EU immigration from that from elsewhere (thus subject to visa etc) and to attempt to differentiate between professional immigrants to arrive with sponsorship from an employer (who would be granted a visa I am sure) and those who come “on spec” or to work in the black economy.

As I have said the US, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong etc all have controlled immigration policies. We have a controlled immigration policy from everywhere in the world apart from EU countries.

Freedom of movement is written into the EU treaties.

Thank goodness for that – we both benefit from this

The only thing they are taking seriously is that enough people are stupid enough to swallow UKIP BS (appropriate that this is a SNP thread as the same thing happened there). If they were being serious they would look at the facts not hysterical anecdote and bllx. But then again we have an election coming.

Tory concern for immigration just reflects need to stay in power in marginals not real concern over real issues. It’s utter tosh….

The M4 and M40 were fine yesterday. All those nasty foreigners must have been in Oxford town centre

Immigration? Ask this guy.

Dennis loves the idea of an independent Scotland – http://labourlist.org/2014/09/dennis-skinner-turns-down-pay-rise-and-urges-scots-to-vote-no/%5B/url%5D

“I can’t understand some of the trade unionists falling for flag-waving in Scotland. It’s meaningless. We’re citizens of the world…I can’t remember anybody in the Scottish NUM saying to me they had a different agenda. The problems in Scotland were the same as the problems in Derbyshire, Durham, Yorkshire, South Wales and Kent. Nationalists divide working people when we should be united.”

“As for quantitative evidence we have very poor estimates for immigration as we don’t actually keep records (eg no exit checks).”

There are no exit checks in the US, either. Australia has an open door policy to New Zealand. Bringing up Hong Kong’s immigration policy as a model for the UK is even more bonkers – not only do they restrict migration by foreigners, they also restrict migration by people with the same citizenship. A dangerous suggestion for someone that has mentioned they’d like to migrate to Scotland upon retirement – you might find that you’re not allowed to!

bearGrease – Member
Dennis loves the idea of an independent Scotland – http://labourlist.org/2014/09/dennis-skinner-turns-down-pay-rise-and-urges-scots-to-vote-no/

“I can’t understand some of the trade unionists falling for flag-waving in Scotland. It’s meaningless. We’re citizens of the world…I can’t remember anybody in the Scottish NUM saying to me they had a different agenda. The problems in Scotland were the same as the problems in Derbyshire, Durham, Yorkshire, South Wales and Kent. Nationalists divide working people when we should be united.”You’ll be going on strike with your spanish, greek and bangladeshi comrades next time then? 😆

bearGrease – Member
Dennis loves the idea of an independent Scotland…

Yes, that’s the danger with ideologies, they bind good people into straitjackets so they can’t see common sense. 🙂

I wonder what Dennis Skinner thinks of NuLab? It’s certainly not the Labour party he joined and, being a socialist, he’s been quite a misfit there for years. The Labour party now is probably right of the Tory party he hated as a lad.

Another 20 Dennis Skinners and Labour would still be the party of the people,albeit we would still have the 70’s version of Labour.
And just like that, RAF search and rescue in Kinloss is being shut down. The study into it was completed in May,but the decision to close it was only announced yesterday. That took a while to announce what will be a very unpopular decision in outdoor circles…Still the UK government has said that the Highlands of Scotland will be perfectly well served from the new base in Hartfordshire.I am suprised;do they not realise that English people use the Scottish hills too?

And just like that, RAF search and rescue in Kinloss is being shut down. The study into it was completed in May,but the decision to close it was only announced yesterday. That took a while to announce what will be a very unpopular decision in outdoor circles…Still the UK government has said that the Highlands of Scotland will be perfectly well served from the new base in Hartfordshire.I am suprised;do they not realise that English people use the Scottish hills too?

Turning the issue of mountain rescue into Scotland v England I see. I encounter people from across the uk and the globe when walking and climbing in the Highlands.Just heard the story of a Brighton man requiring rescue when 400m from a carpark. Also there may be an adverse effect on EU fisherman in the North Sea.

I don’t know the in’s and out’s and the loss of a few jobs in the area is not welcomed. Also a potential loss of knowledge of the nuances of Highland conditions and geography.

I think the issue of search and rescue is bigger than England getting one over on Scotland, although there is probably a group called ”Scotlands Climbers for Yes” where I am sure impartial info can be gleaned.

It is HErtfordshire btw.

Isn’t it just the control centre that’s moving there?

From a purely operational point of view I don’t think it matters if it’s in Kinloss or Calais.

Also a potential loss of knowledge of the nuances of Highland conditions and geography.

Although this may be a valid point. I suspect that in practice it isn’t, as the pilots of any new service (to be based a short distance away in Inverness) will still have that knowledge. Ultimately they are the final decision makers.

Am I right in thinking that the replacement service is broadly the same as the Coast Guard helicopters operation?

Which as far as I’m aware has been working pretty well. I’m prepared to read anything that contradicts this however!

I just assumed it was being centralised/consolidated to make privatisation easier.

At this stage in their lifespan, doing pretty much anything that ends the service of the Sea Kings is probably easier.

Saw quite a cool photo a one of the RNs being rescued by a Chinnok yesterday.

Apologies for the Record link 😛

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rescue-helicopter-gets-airlifted-safety-2474875

Was the image I was thinking of.

Not convinced about the outdoor outrage btw. I know a few in MRT who are concerned, but at the end of the day so long as the new operator turns up and lifts they’ll be more than happy.

There was a similar airlift out of the Northern Corries a few years ago.

Well it’ll be interesting to see how Jim Murphy’s becoming Scottish Labour leader will affect NuLab’s polling in Scotland. I’m not convinced it’ll be seen as progress by those in the party concerned about it being controlled from London.

That’ll be Jim Murphy MP?

That’ll be Jim Murphy MP?

Indeed.

It’s a pity – Sarah Boyack would have been a much better choice. Assuming Labour want to avoid electoral oblivion in Scotland of course – I’m hearing of Yes-supporting Labour types who voted for Murphy because they think it’s time to kill off Scottish Labour.

Scottish Labour spent the whole referendum campaign standing alongside the Tories, and who do they elect as leader? An Iraq-war-supporting, expenses-fiddling, tuition-fee-supporting thin-skinned bully who didn’t bother turning up for the vote on the bedroom tax.

Yup, that’ll show us Labour are completely different to the Tories.

Isn’t it just the control centre that’s moving there?

From a purely operational point of view I don’t think it matters if it’s in Kinloss or Calais.

you are right piemonster, I just wonder if centralising control may make aspects of departmental communication and training coordination within specific areas a bit harder, especially as search and rescue appears to involve a great deal of Chinese Whispers.

Shouldn’t have thought so Athgray. It works perfectly well elsewhere, the operational resources, training, protocols and procedures should be robust enough.

Even when the call-out is coming in, there’s no need for a face to face discussion and frantic pointing at maps. The flight crew will be doing this without the need for an air desk to point for them.

The problems with communicating locations largely arise from the person making the call, not the recipients. They are (should) be trained to not miss things out.

I’d be wary of any new system once it’s first installed however, teething troubles are perfectly possible.

Has the oil price crisis ended the nationalists arguments once and for all? Surely even the most fervent nat is glad to be a part of the UK at the moment?

Has the oil price crisis ended the nationalists arguments once and for all? Surely even the most fervent nat is glad to be a part of the UK at the moment?

Nope, I’d still of rather we had gotten the Yes vote. The oil price wouldn’t be doing us any favours, but many of were voting with more than economics in mind. Plus we’d still be in the UK at this point even with a yes vote. If the oil price is still this low in 2 years time then the budget would need some re-balancing, but I’m not going to pretend I know what the oil price will do.

What happened to the new areas of North Sea oil that Alex Salmond counjured up days before the final vote?

I’d only rather a yes vote if UKIP got into power. God help us all if that happens.

but many of were voting with more than economics in mind.

Odd that polls showed such a different story. Many were bought for a few hundred quid. And the rest by sugar coated fairy tales.

Odd that polls showed such a different story. Many were bought for a few hundred quid.

I didn’t say all of us, or even a majority, but going by the opinions of those I know and a fair few of the posters on here.

And the rest by sugar coated fairy tales.

You can’t help yourself with the cheap shots, eh?

Yes, it’s revenge for subjecting us to Alex Salmond and unless the good people of Gordon see sense, it’s going to continue. 😀

There were plenty of chances for you guys to tell the truth. Some even devoted a whole political lifetime to it, and still screwed it up. Remind us what wee eck’s retorts were to anyone who said his oil price assumptions were a wee bit optimistic….. 😉 were they expensive shots (they sure would have been)?

Has the oil price crisis ended the nationalists arguments once and for all?

As a Green I’m all in favour of the oil industry collapsing, but I’m not a nationalist.

Anyhow, a No-voting friend gave me a present today – a signed copy of Alan Cochrane’s “Alex Salmond: My Part In His Downfall” – looks entertaining 😉

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/26/scottish-independence-nationalists-victory-2015-icm-poll

Catchy title, 136 pages of reading pleasure for you or not …

An Enduring Settlement