SNP. You LOST, get over it

Maybe, but the current system is not democratic,

So say those who backed the losing side in a recent democratic referendum.

Beargrease. What does that have to do with anything? If anything it proves we believe in democracy. We lost and are getting on with it. We haven’t lost our beliefs, no. But point me out where it says we should in the democracy manual.

Losing a referendum does not mean we cannot criticise glaring errors in the existing system. Youse wanted unity, well this is it. We are allowed our opinions.

Yet the polling shows that the governments position on Trident is anything BUT a travesty:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/

Yet the polling shows that the governments position on Trident is anything BUT a travesty:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/07/16/public-support-nuclear-weapons/

Not in Scotland it doesn’t. Support for getting rid of the Trident is almost double what it is in other parts of the UK.

One measured by most normal standards, quality of life, wealth, security, opportunity.

You can have all of those things in a small country and none of them in a large one. A country’s success doesn’t hinge on it’s size.

I think the SNP should put a referendum in there manifesto for both the 2015 and 2016 elections. This time it should be a referendum on true home rule/devo max.

We would then see how democratic the systems are.

Not in Scotland it doesn’t. Support for getting rid of the Trident is almost double what it is in other parts of the UK.

Price of fish? Unless you’ve forgotten, Scotland is part of the UK…

Err, yeah – hence “other parts of the UK”.

duckman – Member
As he is fond of saying “the truth is out there” So I should point out
THM seems to have left out the fact he wants to preserve the status quo as he might fancy living here again,

From a selfish perspective, I may well be returning to Scotland to live and hence I would like to see the country’s best interest served.

Great effort ducks, but if you are going to those lengths at least pick a quote that supports your point.

So Joe, if the result was the other way round, would it have been democratic?

When was Smith ever about devo max?? Pls make a note, treat anything that yS and AS says with a very large piece of salt. After that ignore it and you will be fine!

teamhurtmore – Member
So Joe, if the result was the other way round, would it have been democratic?

When was Smith ever about devo max?? Pls make a note, treat anything that yS and AS says with a very large piece of salt. After that ignore it and you will be fine!Either result if a majority under a referendum is democratic.

Regarding smith commission I go by what the unionists said in the week before. It essentially was. Regardless I’m not overly fussed about the smith commission, it is what it is. I’m more interesting in bottom up organisation and how we can influence policy for the common good, if that can start here and spread elsewhere great. My focus isn’t on independence, future events will decide my thoughts on that in the future.

Just back from the common weal south side meeting there, very interesting, their second meeting, my first time attending. It’s that kinda thing I’m more interested in than any political party, I’ve thought long about it and I reject aligning myself to any party. I always said the battle would just begin with a yes vote. That doesn’t actually change with a no vote.

I’ve thought long about it and I reject aligning myself to any party.

Common ground there at least! A very unpopular position on here though, especially for the hairy little men.

Common ground, surely not! I think Hell just froze! 😉

@epic – I believe the House of Lords fulfills a very important democratic function. I’d much rather have that house overseeing legislation than the EU. We should be spending more on defense. We have material cuts to government spending as it was out of control under Labour and much more than we could afford, the UK was living beyond it’s means. We have one of the most generous welfare states in the world. 100,000’s of people come to the UK every year as its a more attractive place to live than where they come from. If all this is a travesty then long may it continue.

jambalaya – Member

@epic – I believe the House of Lords fulfills a very important democratic function….

There is absolutely nothing democratic about the House of Lords.

There is a place for a house of review, but it must be democratically accountable.

jambalaya – Member
We should be spending more on defense.

why?

We should be spending more on defense. We have material cuts to government spending as it was out of control under Labour and much more than we could afford, the UK was living beyond it’s means. We have one of the most generous welfare states in the world. 100,000’s of people come to the UK every year as its a more attractive place to live than where they come from. If all this is a travesty then long may it continue.

brought to you by the bringer of this little gem

jambalaya – Member

@epic – I believe the House of Lords fulfills a very important democratic function

Doubtless the explanation of what is democratic about the unelected House of Lords will be along shortly, as will the rationale for why government spending is bad unless it’s on defense. I’m looking forward to it, I could do with a laugh

Defense? I guess it’s all to do with what the Yanks want so maybe that’s the correct spelling after all.

We live in a democracy, the house of Lords is part of our democratic process. The appointments to the Lords are made as part of our democratic process. The fact it is not an elected chamber doesn’t change that. It’s primarily a review body, the electoral accountability is at the level of the commons which is where the majority of the work and responsibility lies.

We need a larger armed forces to counter the increasing threats to our security and to protect our international interests.

Where did I say government spending was bad ? I said we have been spending too much, living beyond our means. Unless we manage our spending the NHS and welfare state we enjoy here will become a thing of the past as our nation will be bankrupt. It is the less fortunate members of society who will then suffer the most. The last government did them a great disservice.

Defense? I guess it’s all to do with what the Yanks want so maybe that’s the correct spelling after all.

Very true, pity some people posting on this thread don’t realise that the sun has set on the Empire. “International interests” that is a good one.

jambalaya – Member

We need a larger armed forces to counter the increasing threats to our security and to protect our international interests.

How does a large armed force protect us from domestic and internal terrorists? (the only threat britain really faces.)

jambalaya – Member
We live in a democracy, the house of Lords is part of our democratic process…

No it isn’t.

It is there to override our democratic process.

It serves the interests of the Establishment – which includes the people who own the media that unsurprisingly tell you how wonderful the HoL is.

There to override our democratic process

OK, and which parts of our democratic process can the House of Lords overrule?

ninfan – Member
“There to override our democratic process”
OK, and which parts of our democratic process can the House of Lords overrule?

If you are suggesting it can’t interfere, then it has no purpose other than being a very expensive ceremonial circus.

Does this mean you’ll join me in seeking its abolition?

Freedom for Yorkshire anyone? Please?

If you are suggesting it can’t interfere, then it has no purpose other than being a very expensive ceremonial circus.

You didn’t say it could interfere, you said it could overrule

And I didn’t hear you complaining when it interfered with ID cards, 42 day detentions or the welfare bill…

mt – Member
Freedom for Yorkshire anyone? Please?

I was more thinking quarantine! 😆

As this is a thread on Scotland we can encourage them to show the UK the way to utopia complete with a parliament without a house of lords and high rates of tax to reduce income inequality and pay for their spending.

jambalaya – Member

So no answer then?

I said we have been spending too much, living beyond our means. Unless we manage our spending the NHS and welfare state we enjoy here will become a thing of the past as our nation will be bankrupt.

..and yet uncontrolled spending on arms won’t make us bankrupt?
Don’t you think spending money on defending the country should take second place to making the country worth defending?

We have one of the most generous welfare states in the world. 100,000’s of people come to the UK every year as its a more attractive place to live than where they come from. If all this is a travesty then long may it continue.

Apparently not, because we have record numbers of people depending charity and foodbanks, and you think that this is a good thing.

Still at least when all those immigrants get sent home, you’ll be able to drive on motorways without being held up.

Answer to what ?

Where did I say uncontrolled spending? We already spend a huge amount on making the country worth defending, that why its one of the most popular places in the world for people to come to live. I am all in favour of immigration, it should be controlled just like it is in the US or Australia for example.

Just been listening to Baroness Amos, life peer speaking in her role as UN Emergency Relief Co-ordinator. Doesn’t fit the establishment / hereditary sterotype of the House of Lords.

UN calls for Syrian Refugee Relief Aid

“I was more thinking quarantine!”

Well it would be a start at least.

jambalaya – Member
Just been listening to Baroness Amos, life peer speaking in her role as UN Emergency Relief Co-ordinator. Doesn’t fit the establishment / hereditary sterotype of the House of Lords.

That doesn’t make her position democratic or make her a person who supports democracy.

It would be wonderful if the HoL was full of good guys only interested in the common weal, but it isn’t, and none of them are accountable to voters.

mt – Member
Freedom for Yorkshire anyone? Please?

We’re with you on this. Be good to have the buffer nation of Eboracum between us and the southern mob. 🙂

Great. We should vote to keep her.

Oh.

Well I think the Commons have enough to worry about without tinkering with the House of Lords. We do vote to keep the House of Lords by voting for parties which elect to keep it.

I hope Yorkshire can do a better job than Birmingham / West Midlands council, royally ( 😉 ) criticized today, their childrens department has been under special measures since 2009 (part of me thinks that must be a mistake, 5 years) ! I think we all question the ability of Westminster politicians just think how dire the local folk are, as I’ve posted before a good friend worked closely with local government and was horrified at the incompetence (and corruption) and she was trying to give the area money from the EU. I don’t want these folk having more power. We have these new elected PCCs (voted for by 10-15% of people who bother to turn out), making a £100k a year a year and then creating a deputy post for their mates, another £50k+. We need less of this nonsense not more.

I suppose Yorkshire wants all this devolved power but would like to keep all the tax revenues transferred up from that there South, all the juicy London stamp duty and income tax eh ?

jambalaya – Member
…I hope Yorkshire can do a better job than Birmingham / West Midlands council, royally ( ) criticized today, their childrens department has been under special measures since 2009…

Ah, the dumb provincials argument again.

The issue there is non-accountability and/or transparency, in other words a need for better democracy, not less.

BTW the councillors are held to higher standards of behaviour than the HoL, eg they have to declare conflicts of interest, so to that extent they are better than the HoL.

Baroness Amos

Is a very modern establishment figure, she has worked for local authorities, quangos and government.

Epic it’s not about provincials just the talent pool generally given the wages

Mefty I appreciate she’s “establishment”, to me that means she has the right experience and track record for the job

I am all in favour of immigration, it should be controlled just like it is in the US or Australia for example.

someone who says this is evidently clueless about how pisspoor the US immigration system is at controlling anything