Smoking Childcare – is it wrong?

My sister in law used to fetch her Dads Cigs and light them in his mouth for him.
Fast forward 20yrs. He now lays in a bed all day every day.

mastiles_fanylion – Member

The funny thing is though that most childcare is provided by young ladies who actually smoke quite a lot. They will not smoke in front of your children, but after their breaks they will come back in to the nursery or whatever place you leave your child reeking of fags,

Is this a fact? Or something you have just assumed out of thin (nicotine filled) air?

Just something I have seen a few times and linking it in with what was said higher up the thread about the toxins lingering on people’s skin and clothes, which a child can then breathe in.

My sister in law used to fetch her Dads Cigs and light them in his mouth for him.
Fast forward 20yrs. He now lays in a bed all day every day.

So your sis-in-law’s Father was a lazy bugger 20 years ago and still is by the sounds of it – or is there a relevant point to your riveting family anecdote?

Thank you for saying its riveting. I was thinking of serialising and making into a play for you 8)

Feel free but only if it includes your sis-in-law and bed scenes not involving parents 😉

Just something I have seen a few times and linking it in with what was said higher up the thread about the toxins lingering on people’s skin and clothes, which a child can then breathe in.

Well in the spirit of fairness, we saw several nurseries last year and did not see one person smoking outside, nor the faintest smell of any lingering smoke (and as two non-smokers we can both smell it very easily).

As I said previously, we asked my mum not to smoke (she would have one before coming in to our house) and it was immediately apparent she had been smoking (which is why we asked her to stop.

Feel free but only if it includes your sis-in-law and bed scenes

Thats the 3-part DVD boxset.

However, the nicotine on the walls and skin makes me wonder about what these babies are doing in these smokers’ homes? I know that when babies reach a certain age they stick things in their mouths, but they do not go around the place licking the paint and people’s skin!

Our 5 month old will bite your nose given half a chance (fortunately no teeth yet). And likes a good chew on an arm if she gets bored. Other people we know with babies have similar experiences.

Graham – but how significant? I am sure it is possible to detect but is it really going to make any difference?
Nothing in that article says how high the levels were and what increase in risk this is.

Agreed. I did say it was a Daily Mail article so it was fairly fact-lite.

I’d love to spend an hour dredging through pubmed papers to find some more definitive answers but sadly I’ve got pesky work to do. Feel free though 🙂 A quick search on “third hand smoke” turns up some promising ones:

“Given the rapid sorption and persistence of high levels of nicotine on indoor surfaces-including clothing and human skin-this recently identified process represents an unappreciated health hazard through dermal exposure, dust inhalation, and ingestion.”
— Formation of carcinogens indoors by surface-mediated reactions of nicotine with nitrous acid, leading to potential thirdhand smoke hazards. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20142504

“There is no safe level of exposure to tobacco smoke. Thirdhand smoke is residual tobacco smoke contamination that remains after the cigarette is extinguished. Children are uniquely susceptible to thirdhand smoke exposure.”
— Beliefs about the health effects of “thirdhand” smoke and home smoking bans. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19117850

Smoking shows up as a possible contributing factor in 9 out of 10 case of SIDS (aka cot death).
My dad smokes cigars and isn’t allowed near our five month old during or for about an hour after one. Some will say this is overkill. It probably is. But one of the mums in the Mrs baby group woke up to a dead six month old and that really shook us, so we’d rather be overly cautious!

Obviously with older children, only exposed to second or third hand smoke, the immediate health risks are far far less catastrophic. But I’d still prefer to minimise the unnecessary toxins that my children are exposed to, even if it means offending relatives.

Some other interesting factoids:
You car is killing the planet.
Your bike is made using sweated labour, at least to extract the raw materials.
The environmental effect of that material extraction is killing the planet.
Etc. I think you get the picture.

Yep, but simply dismissing such factoids as typical middle class handwringing doesn’t make them any less true. 🙂

Controversial point: the rate of SIDS in the population is dropping, except in the lower income brackets. One possible theory is that this group are more likely to dismiss medical advice than the handwringing middle classes.

But one of the mums in the Mrs baby group woke up to a dead six month old and that really shook us, so we’d rather be overly cautious!

Being a parent, that makes me almost want to cry even though I have never met the poor woman. I cannot imagine how that must feel. I am feeling mildly sick at the thought.
😥

m_f: yep, I feel queasy at the thought of it. I can’t really imagine much worse. It must be absolutely devastating.

^^^^

Agreed. That must be a truly horrible experience to have to go through.

Never heard of “third hand smoke” before. You learn something new everyday, don’t you?

Yes – we all have the capability to cope with loss (I lost my father last year so he never got to see our girls) but to lose a child like that must completely hardwire you mentally and change how you look at the rest of your life.

Graham – so you are basing your position on “no such thing as a safe level” fair enough. I am wondering if there really is a significant increased risk from occasional third hand smoke. If your positionis no risk is acceptable then there clearly is an increased risk – but is it i:10 or 1:10 000 000 ?

I wonder if the risks of this third hand smoke are really significant. Like yourself I can’t be bothered to research it more – I had a quick glance at the refs yo provided neither of which answer that question – its probably unanswerable anyway.

Ta.

I think that where there is a risk that is very easily removed (ie smoking) there isn’t a compelling reason to allow it.

Graham – so you are basing your position on “no such thing as a safe level” fair enough.

Yeah pretty much. Hopelessly naive I know, but as a balance of risks it boils down to: would I rather expose my baby daughter to substances that I know to be harmful (even if the actual increased risk of harm is probably pretty tiny) or would I prefer to keep her away from them and risk upsetting my father?

He’ll forgive me 🙂

Cons: Puts child at an increased risk of health problems or a later dependency on smoking, might upset the carer

Pros: The child will see how cool smoking is

im in no way condoning smoking around a child , however since this is a thread about worrying about nasty contaminates finding their way into your child, id like to add a few more to freak you out;

coal fired power stations produce more radiation then nuclear ones. this is let out of the chimney vents rather then collected into yellow barrels.

MDF contains such high levels of toxins that one exposure so dust given off by it is deemed too much. it ‘off-gases’ when in your home, these gases are carcinogenic, being mainly made up of formaldehyde

air pollution causes in excess of 50,000 early deaths a year in the uk. mainly from power stations and cars. this is more then passive smoking, obesity or traffic accidents (Commons Environmental Audit Committee report 2010)

just some food for thought

In 12 years time she’ll be snogging someone you don’t approve of.
In 17 years time she’ll be having sex with someone you don’t approve of.
In 20 years time she’ll be married to someone you don’t approve of.
In 25 years time she’ll be having children and bringing them up in a way you don’t approve of.

In between those times she’ll drinking more alcohol than you approve of, taking drugs that you don’t approve of, staying out later than you approve of.

If you’re concerned about Granny now, you gonna have sooooooooooooo much fun to come….

Smokings cool as its put behind the sweety counter – lit brightly right infront of your face when you pay for your paper in the morning.

Talk about temptation for people who have quit.

Shopkeepers bleat about ‘losing money’ if its under the counter.

Funny, alot of them around our way seem to be practising Muslims who also sell pornography.

@jonah: I don’t allow her to work in coalfired powerstations or B&Q either. 🙂

Ah yes, only Christians should sell jazz mags….
In one way you’re lucky, at least you’re not horas father in law…

I have to keep telling my Mum to curb her language sometimes. Not real offensive, just mild cursing, “bloody” this & the occasional “pissing” that; when she’s wound up. (usually by the Daily mail).
She’s sadly too old now for looking after kids, but think yourselves lucky. At one point we were coughing up over £1k a month.
Get the Wife to have a word, but from what you said I’d not be too concerned.

I guess it puts a new light on the saying “Granny had a big Cuban in the garden”.

hora – Member
Smokings cool as its put behind the sweety counter – lit brightly right infront of your face when you pay for your paper in the morning.

Talk about temptation for people who have quit.

I see it as a test hora when I go into the newsagent now.

I see them there in their silver, gold or brightly coloured boxes looking like some kind of ingots of precious metals and then when the shopkeeper asks “do you want anything else?” I give myself a pat on the back when I reply “no thanks!”.

I stopped going into my local shops for a couple of weeks after I stopped to avoid the temptation!

I have to keep telling my Mum to curb her language sometimes. Not real offensive, just mild cursing, “bloody” this & the occasional “pissing” that; when she’s wound up. (usually by the Daily mail).

My sister in law swears at her children. I often hear ‘stop f*cking about’ or ‘I’ll f*cking kill you’. (Yeah, I know 😕 )

Then she emailed me once to stop swearing on Facebook as my nieces are friends. I said (IIRC) fuckdamnshittwat (in my defence, Leeds had just been beaten heavily). Which, correct me if I am wrong, not even a swear word. 😆

1 She is doing you a favour and saving you money
2 She appears to be making a reasonable effort not to smoke near the kid

Personally I would’nt expect any more in the circumstances.

Some of them have new lighting – almost LED-white backlit/downlit to draw your eye/create attention.

Always at the same eyeline as the person behind the counter as well so if you look at the chap/lady you are also looking at them…

Hora. That makes no sense at all. On that basis you’d be compelled to buy everything shiny you ever looked at. That’d be ridiculous! You’d be changing your bike frame or your car every week.

Oh…. hang on a minute…..

I think the only safe option is to barricade yourself into a hermetically sealed environment and pray.

Even the bananas are dangerous!!!

Can’t we power the world using bananas then?

And the methane from cow farts obviously.

It’s the way forward I tells ya.

Fancy Marble tonight or tomorrow pm? I was in there last Sat night enjoying a few whilst reading a paper in peace 🙂