Home › Forums › Bike Forum › Sintered or organic pads for the Alps?
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Sintered or organic pads for the Alps?
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rollindoughnutFree Member
I’m off to do an mtb stage race in the French Alps soon. Have never ridden this sort of terrain. Here at home I always use sintered pads but I’m wondering about heat buildup on long descents in the mountains.
Will be descending 1000m at a time and it’ll be steep with stages like 2500-3500m of ascent/descent in 55-65km.
I expect I’ll be dragging the brakes quite a lot too as I’ll be absolutely exhausted a lot of the time although equally I find when I’m racing I tend to stay off them more than usual, taking chances I wouldn’t normally take. Who knows?
Bike is a Topfuel, brakes XT on 180mm front, 160mm rear. 70kg rider.
Finally are the finned pads worth it? Can’t say I’ve seen the point for my UK riding.si77Full MemberIf you choose organic, make sure you take some spares with you! Keep an eye on how much is left on them at the end of each day.
For a similar event (Swiss Epic) I didn’t feel the need for finned pads.
patonFree Member“Mix it up
Still can’t make up your mind? Well, it turns out that you don’t have to. Some of the top professional racers in the world, including some members of the famed Santa Cruz Syndicate downhill mountain bike team, often run mixed brake pad set-ups. The idea is that since the inner brake pad typically wears quicker than the outer, you run a metal brake pad on the inside and resin on the outside. This allows riders to reap benefits of both the materials while minimizing drawbacks. “nickjbFree MemberI’ve always used a middling pad like a Kevlar. Decent wear resistance and consistent power.
I’d also consider upping the disks. Put the 180 on the rear and get a 200 for the front. Might be over kill, but I’ve never felt over braked in the Alps (I do have a few extra kilos on you though)
thols2Full MemberThe idea is that since the inner brake pad typically wears quicker than the outer, you run a metal brake pad on the inside and resin on the outside.
Unless one piston is badly seized or one pad is much, much hotter than the other, I cannot see any mechanism for this to happen. My pads have always worn pretty evenly.
dc1988Full MemberDepends if you want fit and forget, an organic pair could wear out in less than a day but a sintered pair should last easily. I personally never run organic as they don’t last long enough and I never feel they have any more power
survivorFull MemberUse both..
I have organic front and sintered rear.
Organic gives the quick bite on the front and sintered deals with the dragging on the rear.
For context last time I was in France it was a year or so later when I then changed out the front organic. I’d gone through a few sets off rears in that time. Bike is used multiple times a week
rollindoughnutFree MemberI’m not worried about stopping power. It’s plenty for my light build. It’s only overheating that I’ve no experience of. Is there a difference with sintered compared to organic? If not I’ll definitely stick with sintered. One less thing to worry about.
Will have 4 pairs spare anyway just in case. They weigh nothing so why not.maxtorqueFull MemberI run one of each in each caliper to deal with Cold & Wet and Hot & Dry!
This doesn’t give as much ultimate stopping power at very high temps as running two sintered pads, nor as much inital bite as running two organics when it’s wet, but it seems to give a really wide, consistent useable range of retardation vs lever force.
I’m not a big heavy chap, so if you really are on it downhill and are a bit more built than skinny old me, in the alps you might find you need two sintered pads?
tall_martinFull MemberWhichever you choose, bed them in before you go.
First time in the Alps I changed pads and wore them out one wet muddy alpine decent because I had worn the previous set to the metal ( in the mud) and was on the brakes the whole way down.
The other trips have been fine. I’ve checked the pads at the end of the day, I don’t brake as much and I’m not on 160mm rotors on uplift weeks anymore
tuboflardFull MemberCould you also chuck a 203mm rotor on the front and the 180mm on the back? Can’t do any harm.
qwertyFree MemberBigger rotors will also build up less heat, so +1 for them, especially the rear if you think you’ll be dragging the brake.
rollindoughnutFree MemberI’ve just gone from 160mm to 180mm on the front and switched from Sram to XT brakes. So much stopping power it’s turned me into a right hooligan 😆.
I’ll consider doing the same with the rear.stevehFull Member200mm rotors each end if you can, less work for the hands and better for heat.
rollindoughnutFree MemberBearing in mind that this is an xc stage race with 5 days of 2500m+ of climbing, would you still recommend that? I’m not a weight weany but reluctant to spend any more money getting the bike ready.
chrismacFull MemberSintered all the way unless you are happy taking and probably using up several pairs of organics
qwertyFree Member5 days in the Alps with Shimano brakes I’d take the bleed funnel and some fluid to carry out a lever bleed at the end of each day, it helps a bit with the Shimano™️ variable bite point, just remember when you install new pads that you might need to use the funnel and release any excess fluid from the system that you’d previously topped up with.
ross980Free MemberWhen I went to Morzine (a summer a long time ago), I destroyed a set organic ‘downhill’ pads in half a day. Swapped to sintered, they lasted the rest of the week (and most of the following UK winter). Discs got an interesting red glow on the longest descents, but braking was fine (Shimano deore)
rollindoughnutFree MemberCool. Cheers guys.
I’ll go sintered. Boost the rear rotor to 180mm and will have the luxury of the bike mechanic service at the race if I need a bleed.
Tell you what, for €750, getting 5 days of marathon xc racing in the Alps, accommodation, food, massage, bike wash and tech support, plus shuttles to transport links, feels like incredibly good value compared to some UK events.Kryton57Full MemberTell you what, for €750, getting 5 days of marathon xc racing in the Alps, accommodation, food, massage, bike wash and tech support, plus shuttles to transport links, feels like incredibly good value compared to some UK events.
I could be very interested in this for ‘23. Good luck with it, I look forward to a post event write up.
NorthwindFull MemberIME sintered is worse for heat than organic. I like kevlar, it always seems like the best of all worlds
stevomcdFree Member15 years Alpine guiding experience. Always, always organic.
Sintered last longer for sure. They also heat up more. Neither of those are big issues for me, although as a big dude (85kg), I do need to be a little careful to make sure my setup can deal with heat.
The main issue though is that, once they’ve heated up, sintered pads howl unbearably. We see it constantly with clients and it’s the same for me every time I’m forced to stick sintered pads in (usually because our garage stash has run out and I’m forced to buy a set at the local shop). I’m sure some brake / pad / rotor / bike / ride combinations get away with this, but for me it’s usually unbearable.
So, organic. A pair usually lasts me a week of guiding (4000m or so descending per day).
rollindoughnutFree MemberHa! Just when I thought it was sorted 😄
I’ll take both and treat the week as a learning experience.
Hoping this event (yes it is the Alps Epic) will be the first of many serious adventures in the proper mountains.rollindoughnutFree MemberStevomcd.
I’m on Sram 11sp so limited to 42t as biggest rear sprocket. Normally I run a 30t chainring but really appreciated a 28 when I did the BeMC 3 day mtb race. Have bought a 26t for the Epic as I can’t see any flat on the elevation profiles just lots of climbing.
Does this sound like a good idea to you? Am I right to be expecting 15-20% climbs. Race is around Briancon, Sere Chevalier, Vars.stevomcdFree MemberI’m on Sram 11sp so limited to 42t as biggest rear sprocket. Normally I run a 30t chainring but really appreciated a 28 when I did the BeMC 3 day mtb race. Have bought a 26t for the Epic as I can’t see any flat on the elevation profiles just lots of climbing.
Does this sound like a good idea to you? Am I right to be expecting 15-20% climbs. Race is around Briancon, Sere Chevalier, Vars.Yes, if you’re limited to 42t, small chainring sounds like a good idea. I’m generally on a bike enduro bike for guiding (Orange Alpine 6 or Stage 6) and really noticed the difference between a 42 and a 46 at the back (with a 30T chainring). It takes my reference stinker of a climb (Meribel Ridge) from properly challenging to bearable. 42 – 28 would give you about the same gear. 42 – 26 would give you another gear at the bottom end. 28 is probably fine. 26 if you’re expecting to be at the end of your tether!
I’m now running 32-50 12sp most of the time, especially on my light bike (Orange Stage 4). Haven’t found anything I can’t get up on that (that I actually want to pedal up).
enigmasFree MemberI prefer sintered – last longer and they fade less than organic pads.
That is with the caveat sintered pads are better conductors of heat than organics, meaning that more heat is transferred to the brake fluid. If you have big rotors and dh brakes that’s fine, they can transfer the heat away well enough. If you have 2 piston brakes then organic could be better.
rollindoughnutFree MemberI’m expecting to be extremely tired so 26t will be much loved I reckon. To put it into context, the first stage is also the French national marathon championship. 95km/3000m ascent. That alone will destroy me. Then have 4 more similar days! Can’t even comprehend how that’s possible.
My only goal is to finish, so plan to spin and eat my way around the mountains. Noisy brakes would mess with my hopefully zen like state so I’ll try organic. Maybe the earlier idea of organic on the front, sintered on the back will help me learn about them. Can always just use the front if the back gets too noisy.chakapingFull MemberAlways, always organic.
I’d tend to agree with this, I’d got into the habit of only buying organic for a few years because I liked the feel, the consistency and quietness.
Dabbled with sintered a bit this last year and aside from a bit more bite in certain conditions, I don’t think they bring any real benefits for me.
Yes, I’ve burned through organic pads in a day in the Alps, but that was years ago (probably staying with Stevo) when I was on Formula The Ones – which seemed to just melt pads a lot.
PS. I usually get cheap-ish pads and the slightly shorter lifespan isn’t really an issue, plus I suspect they might prolong rotor life so the £££ situation is unclear at best.
blastitFree MemberProblem I had with sintered was the way they went through rotors , it gets very expensive with those floating ones !!!
P-JayFree MemberI’ve been going to the Alps since 2007 I think. These days I just run organic, but I tend to stick to the easier trails and PDS especailly seems tamer these days, a lot less dragging.
Anyway, autobiography aside, the Alps is tough on brakes and IMHO it’s best to match the conditions. If it’s dry and you’re dragging sintered pads, they’ll glaze until you’ll be grabbing the levers like Geoff Capes tearing a yellow pages in half and producing nothing but noise and heat. ertainly not stopping power! You’ll warp your discs and destroy your forearms. If it’s wet and you’re dragging organics, the results will be largely the same, well, within 30 mins anyway when the pads are down o the metal. Sintered work well in the wet in the Alps, Organics when it’s dry.
The best solution is to adapt to Alpine riding and pick braking points rather than constant dragging, but that’s not always possible. Kevlar pads do seem to be a good compromise, the only downside I’d ever felt is they don’t work when they’re cold, not an issue in the Alps.
KramerFree MemberWhen I’m in the Alps doing the sort of 1000m+ vertical descents that you’re talking about I use organic pads (less squealing) and 200mm discs front and rear. I’d go to 220mm front if I had a compatible fork.
The sorts of stage race descents that you’re talking about are massively longer than bike park descents, with consistent gradients, and can easily go on for 10-15km. As others have said, riding the brakes will burn them out in next to no time.
It goes without saying, make sure your brakes are services prior to your trip.
rollindoughnutFree MemberIt’s going to be brilliant isn’t it. So out of the ordinary for me.
Just plan to soak it all up, learn, and hopefully have a great time and make new friends.rollindoughnutFree MemberI can put a couple of spare pairs of pads in my backpack. XT brakes so they’re really easy to put a new set in mid stage if I have to. Keen to try organic. I once put a pair on my cx bike BB7s and they were very quiet like you say.
Kryton57Full MemberI can thorough recommend Disco brake semi metallic in general – cheap as a bundle last the same as the SLX organic pads I used before. Discobrakes have Kevlar also.
No Alps experience though…
reggiegasketFree MemberI always use organic. The idea is that they are better at heat management compared to sintered (for pretty obvious reasons).
I’m not bothered about wear rates in the Alps, just performance. I either use Sram, Galfer or Rahox, depending on what I have handy at the time.
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