Should my recently graduated son expect to work 55 hpw for £17500 pa?

Some people here live in cloud cuckoo land.

There are loads of graduates these days who are even struggling to find employment, let alone a ‘graduate’ job. They are either too qualified, not experienced enough etc.

£17,500 is bad if you have 4 £25k jobs lined up, if you dont its good.

Its better to be in work and looking, than sat on the doll.

I do find it odd that people are saying £17.5k is crap for 55hours work. Junior doctors work much longer hours 80 + and come out on less than the minimum wage… but of course thats different isnt it?

IMO take the job unless others interviewed and offered.

You do what you need to do to get a job and career. In any case, 50 – 60 hours per week strikes me as pretty standard for an office-based job. He’ll get paid much better after he’s proven himself.

Really???
Anyone expecting 60hrs (20 of those being unpaid) from someone is really just milking them. For the chance at a big consultancy where the rewards are high and the possibilities are good then maybe but for senior branch office looker after?

You always have to weigh up the long term opportunities. I graduated in ’91 and my first job paid <£5K pa when I could have earned around £18K pa at a large corporate. Why did I chose the £5K job then? Because it led directly to the career path I wanted and the money came later. In short grad starting salaries are pretty meaningless when you look beyond the first couple of years.

My advice is to pick the job you really want, with the career prospects that you aspire to and don’t worry about the starting salary at all. In many cases the most attractive grad jobs have the most competition and possibly lowest starting salaries. Supply and demand.

In any case, 50 – 60 hours per week strikes me as pretty standard for an office-based job

glad I don’t live in your world…

Junior doctors work much longer hours 80 + and come out on less than the minimum wage… but of course thats different isnt it?

No, that’s similarly appalling.

Jeez, if my boss get 25 out of me he’s done well.

and for one I really do not want to be seen by a doctor on the end of an 80hr week.

No, that’s similarly appalling.

I’m pretty sure – based on my OH and loads of my friends currently being junior doctors – that it’s not even close to true. Doctors receive pay according to their banding for hours worked outside of their contracted 40hpw – they also don’t work 80+ hour weeks on average.

edit: obviously this only reflects on her and her colleagues in the north east – it may be different in some deaneries/hospitals I guess.

I was at one of the big consultancies a couple of weeks ago discussing their grad programmes. They take on the brightest, and expect them to be an unpaid intern during the training programme (they cover travel expenses)

The developers have around £20k spent on training them during the 5 months they are an intern. On placement with the client they earn £24k with £1.5k 6 monthly increments. They might not get placed though. I spoke with the grads and they all thought it was a good deal, with the potential opportunities it could lead to.

5 months with no salary, and having to pass multiple tests and assignments to potentially get a £24k job sounds pretty harsh to me.

basically less than minimum wage, comes out at £6.12 ph over 52 weeks.

£6.62 if you factor in 4 weeks non paid holiday. so just meeting min wage. (£6.50 for 21yo+)

Unfortunately, although you will have the correct training, you won’t have experience to put that training to good use for a year or so. even within each individual company,

If you have qualifications they want experience, if you have experience they want qualifications, and if you have both then you’re overqualified. Can’t bloody win.

5 months with no salary, and having to pass multiple tests and assignments to potentially get a £24k job sounds pretty harsh to me.

It does sound harsh, but what are they earning 5 or 10 years down the line? I don’t know the answer in this case, but that’s what really matters.

why would you factor in 4 weeks non paid holiday to a minimum wage calculation ?

pro rata – for 55hours i would have been earning more than 17.5k as a bike mechanic – id have been happier to continue doing that than work for enterprise.

trail_rat – Member
why would you factor in 4 weeks non paid holiday to a minimum wage calculation ?

Cause that’s the only way that 17.5k over 52 weeks at 55 hpw is legal for a 21 year old. You’ll need to ask the company why they are doing it, not me.

As for the OP,

My first IT job after Uni was working in tech support hell for the princely salary of £7,500. Apparently, I was one of the highest paid new starters they’d ever had.

£17k for a graduate role sounds pretty good to me, but 55 hours a week is a bit rich. Questions I’d be asking are ‘what else do you get for that’ – eg, is there a guaranteed rise / promotion after a period of time, or other benefits? And, what’s the commute like, is it five minutes away or a three hour round trip? Eleven hours a day in work, plus lunch, plus travel, means you might be away from home for fourteen hours each day; the novelty of that will wear off really fast.

Still, as others have said, the best way to get a good job is to already have a poor one. Employers need to up their game to win you over, rather than assume you’ll take any old rubbish as it’s better than signing on.

If you have qualifications they want experience, if you have experience they want qualifications, and if you have both then you’re overqualified. Can’t bloody win.

Haha. This rings true.

However I’ve found it very hard to locate good graduates with real talent in my line of work, despite the supposed glut of them.

And it’s even harder to hang onto them as freelancers because they naturally prefer a bit of job security and the possibility of career progression.

you would be making the assumption that what they are doing is legal, it’s probably not and they are just assuming that most people won’t question it and as there is no hourly rate not clock what a low rate they are on.

and for one I really do not want to be seen by a doctor on the end of an 80hr week.

Yeah best to go on a Monday.

Saying it’s easier to find a job when you’re in a job might be true, but if it’s a completely unrelated, poor-quality job it can reflect badly on you to some employers. In my industry who or what companies you’ve got on your CV is pretty important to a lot of the decent employers – there’s a degree of snobbishness involved which I hate but unfortunately it’s how it is.

I still think he’d be better off doing some work experience or temping in a few different businesses to work out where his interest lies, then really targeting that sector.

On the one hand £17.5k is better than dole money and it’s easier to find a job when you’ve already got one.

This.

It all depends on the prospects – I would pretty much expect that in the main accounting firms – but the potential is huge.

In the media world you could be expected to be a runner for less than that (or free) until you prove yourself.

its a dog eat dog world and a degree helps a lot but doesn’t mean £40k out the door.

there’s a degree of snobbishness involved which I hate but unfortunately it’s how it is.

Doesn’t sound like he’s going to be looking for jobs in any elitist places anytime soon though.

a degree helps a lot but doesn’t mean £40k out the door.

It never did really, but you can earn a lot more than £40K down the line. Also best not to forget that job satisfaction and pay are not related as closely as some people think.

But I have to say that working for a car leasing company doesn’t sound all that compelling to me!

Hey, I started out mopping the floor just like you guys. But now… now I’m washing lettuce. Soon I’ll be on fries; then the grill. And pretty soon, I’ll make assistant manager, and that’s when the big bucks start rolling in.

Sorry, couldn’t help thinking of this gem.

f it’s a completely unrelated, poor-quality job it can reflect badly on you to some employers.

That’s still a win-win situation though, because you almost certainly want to avoid working for judgemental arseholes.

What looks better, that a candidate went and got a stop-gap job whilst searching for a career, or that they sat at home all day watching porn and eating Wotsits?

What looks better, that a candidate went and got a stop-gap job whilst searching for a career, or that they sat at home all day watching porn and eating Wotsits?

Perfect training for a career in IT surely?

Saying it’s easier to find a job when you’re in a job might be true, but if it’s a completely unrelated, poor-quality job it can reflect badly on you to some employers. In my industry who or what companies you’ve got on your CV is pretty important to a lot of the decent employers – there’s a degree of snobbishness involved which I hate but unfortunately it’s how it is.

But the OPs son doesn’t even know what career he wants. So he has to make a start somewhere.

I’d agree there’s little point taking a horticulture job if you want to be an engineer.

Yeah, not arguing with that.
Stop-gap job > sitting at home.
But also:
Relevant work experience > soul-destroying stop-gap job.

And there’s nothing to say he won’t be aiming at higher-end companies at some point – his degree and uni wouldn’t hold him back.

For those saying that it’s easier to find a job when you’ve got one, there is another side to this. I had pretty much decided I didn’t want to do what I do. However when trying to switch career path no one was interested in me. I had a job, but it hadn’t trained me in what they did and so they only had my degree to go on. So I had no experience. In this day and age where people of my age are specialising at degree level employers want precisely what they’re after and don’t seem flexible.

He would be better off not taking anything and finding what he actually wants to do at a wage he’s willing to take.

If he’s got a 2:1 from a mediocre university, then Kantaar would be a much better company to apply for. 22k a year, a lot of the jobs are in London though and most days you will be working a normal 9-5.

My wife did a one year internship with them as she panicked when interviewing for the big high paying city companies, however, she got sent on a 6 week international secondment to train employees in an overseas office. The company has put her in good shape to find a high paying job when you combine the level of responsibility they gave her, with her first, her thesis which is probably got to get published and her awards for academic performance.

Time to consult an expert!…

Has anyone actually said what the job is yet?

My thoughts:

– Could well be £17.5k + commission if it’s some kind of sales led role, so may well pay very well if he performs

– Likely to be client/customer facing – this is great experience. Too many grads/young employees now have very poor social/client facing skills. Great experience for the future if nothing else

– It’s buyer’s market at the moment. Employers can afford to be picky, less so employees. As has been said, it’s better to be in work than not.

However when trying to switch career path no one was interested in me. I had a job, but it hadn’t trained me in what they did and so they only had my degree to go on. So I had no experience. In this day and age where people of my age are specialising at degree level employers want precisely what they’re after and don’t seem flexible

So sitting at home watching daytime TV builds up the experience you need to get your dream job?

No, but neither does sitting in a job that is not relevant to what you want to do and pays peanuts for mad hours.

Also as a graduate job choose time make a choice, how many other things has he got in the pipeline?

Peanuts can be spent.

Experience working is useful experience. Gaps on CVs have to be explained too.

when i graduated – life didnt really change….

i carried on working doing what i always did – gardening / bike mechanic and on weekends i was a barman.

i continued doing that while applying till a job that interested me offered me a position – then i moved to near that job..

there was absolutely no time to be sitting on a sofa.

If you have qualifications they want experience, if you have experience they want qualifications, and if you have both then you’re overqualified. Can’t bloody win.

This, a university that I worked out had a ridiculous amount of responsibility for someone on pay grade scale. I was doing research, if something went wrong I could have dicked up a 50-100k experiment, at the same I was doing all the basic technical/housekeeping duties for the senior technician who was too busy doing a part time PHd. All for 17k a year. They had four interviewees turn up for that job, I beat a Cambridge graduate to get it. Now they have upped the requirements for the job even further – yet they will probably be wondering why no one will turn up for the interview.

Human resources are the cause of it, they often want the moon on a stick.

But I have to say that working for a car leasing company doesn’t sound all that compelling to me!

Multinational company so it could be anything though, marketing, finance, HR etc…