Home Forums Chat Forum Shooting in Paris… Spies and intelegence

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  • Shooting in Paris… Spies and intelegence
  • unfitgeezer
    Free Member

    The other thread has gone in its usual fashion of bickering etc

    What I can’t fathom is how noone knew this was going to happen ! Surely intelligence agencies have spies etc working on the inside… I imagine if and when they get to the bottom of this tragic mess most of the perpetrators will be known to various agencies world wide.

    Thoughts go out to all involved in this tragic mess

    wrecker
    Free Member

    I don’t think the french intelligence agencies are quite as “informed” as ours is.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    🙄

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Roll away, rolly. Our anti terror laws and experience of dealing with terrorists far outweighs anything france have, but never mind that you just see it as a nationalistic slight and post emojis.

    scotroutes
    Full Member

    Maybe all those stories we get about planned attacks being thwarted are just pish designed to make us more fearful about the risk to us and wrongly confident in our security services.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    Our anti terror laws and experience of dealing with terrorists far outweighs anything france have

    Um, maybe look into the history of French North Africa before saying things like this.

    Alpha1653
    Full Member

    I think if we truly knew the extent of intelligence the security services had to deal with we wouldn’t be surprised that somethings slip through the net. Unfortunately, revelations by the likes of Wikileaks and Snowdon means that terrorists are increasingly able to avoid even our best methods of surveillance. The more we tie the hands of the security services on the basis of preventing a so called surveillance state means that we have to accept that sooner or later this sort of thing is going to happen. It’s a sad world we live in…

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Maybe all those stories we get about planned attacks being thwarted are just pish designed to make us more fearful about the risk to us and wrongly confident in our security services.

    I very much doubt it. I have my reasons for thinking this way.

    Um, maybe look into the history of French North Africa before saying things like this.

    Maybe look into the IRA bombing campaign before posting things like this.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    It’s not a competition.

    Edukator
    Free Member

    In recent cases in France it’s simply that you can’t imprison people because of what you suspect they might do or follow everyone you suspect 24/7. NI, H-block and the troubles show what happens when you start locking up and killing people without trial.

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Moments before making a speech on the attacks, President Obama was sitting next to probably the worlds #1 expert in spies, intelligence and terrorism, Henry Kissinger.

    Always a tragedy when innocent lives lost

    Lifer
    Free Member

    jivehoneyjive – Member

    Always a tragedy when innocent lives lost

    Kissinger is certainly an expert in that.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    unfitgeezer – Member
    The other thread has gone in its usual fashion of bickering etc

    it only took 1 reply b4 it descended into willy waving…

    wrecker
    Free Member

    it only took 1 reply b4 it descended into willy waving…

    FFS. Have a word.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    kimbers – Member

    unfitgeezer – Member
    The other thread has gone in its usual fashion of bickering etc

    it only took 1 reply b4 it descended into willy waving… [/quote]

    It is not me …

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    There is no doubt we will experience another attack. We do however seem to be doing a good job so far of foiling them.

    France has Europe’s largest Muslim population which I suggest makes it more difficult for the French to track all suspects which are quite likely to be greater in number than we have to face and probably with a more sympathetic network. I think we in the UK also have a stronger relationship with the US and thus have better intelligence sharing and surveillance techniques. We also have first hand experience of fighting the IRA over many years.

    chewkw
    Free Member

    jambalaya – Member
    There is no doubt we will experience another attack. We do however seem to be doing a good job so far of foiling them.

    It will happen.

    The question is when and how to minimise the damage or how to stay one step ahead of them.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    saying that he uk has better surveillence sounds like hubris, decades of experience with the IRA didnt stop the 7/7 bombings

    chewkw
    Free Member

    kimbers – Member

    saying that he uk has better surveillence sounds like hubris, decades of experience with the IRA didnt stop the 7/7 bombings

    If they have the will they have the way.

    jambalaya
    Free Member

    @kimbers you cannot stop every plot, that’s why I said we will have another attack. One will get through.

    whatnobeer
    Free Member

    It’s a sad world we live in…

    Sums up my reaction to the rest of your post.

    Either way, I can’t help but feel immense sympathy with those in Paris at the moment. Truly horrific.

    grahamt1980
    Full Member

    Edited.
    Not sure realism is going to be wanted at the moment

    hora
    Free Member

    Supposed to be going out in central London tonight with family.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    I would assume Geography has a big part in it, the fact we are an island must make it easier to control who comes in and out.

    We haven’t had loads of ‘refugees’ entering the country either. I thought it was common knowledge that when Mainland Europe opened its doors to refugees that terrorist saw this as an opportunity to walk straight in.

    Then there is the fact that France has been joining America in bombing Syria.

    Whatever it’s a very sad thing that has happened 🙁

    atlaz
    Free Member

    wrecker – perhaps you need to spend a bit of time reading about the decades of terrorism on the French mainland in the 2nd half of last century. Almost 30 in the 80s alone with over 60 killed, far more than the ones in the UK in the same decade (approx 10 attacks and 30+ killed outside the sectarian violence in NI). Just because you haven’t paid attention doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    The French have as much experience in domestic terrorism as the UK.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    We haven’t had loads of ‘refugees’ entering the country either. I thought it was common knowledge that when Mainland Europe opened its doors to refugees that terrorist saw this as an opportunity to walk straight in.

    The Charlie Hebdo attackers were born in France. The 7/7 London bombers were born in the UK. We have no idea where the Paris attackers were born, but there’s no evidence at all that they came to France recently.

    It’s easy to think of the terrorist threat as stopping “them”. It’s much more difficult than that.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    We haven’t had loads of ‘refugees’ entering the country either. I thought it was common knowledge that when Mainland Europe opened its doors to refugees that terrorist saw this as an opportunity to walk straight in.

    Randomly blaming refugees with no evidence is just displaying your own prejudices, the Charlie hebdo shooters grew up in France, 7/7 bombers in Bradford, France has plenty of disenfranchised youth of its own ripe for radicalisation.

    Yes France started bombing Syria in september

    bencooper
    Free Member

    This is the way to respond to both the refugee crisis and the Paris attacks:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/14/scotland-rothesay-bute-refugees-syria-welcome

    Be more welcoming and caring, not less.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    WHat Kimbers says

    hora
    Free Member

    Bencooper how so?

    It’s just token gestures greatly after the event. A good decade+ after the event.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    15 families on a small Scottish island isn’t a token gesture for the people involved. What’s needed is thousands more token gestures like this.

    It’s not an immediate solution. It’s not hunting down and killing the terrorists. Because that’s not a long-term plan.

    cokie
    Full Member

    Very sad and I despair at human civilisation most of the time these days. Lots of innocent lives lost for no reason.

    Hora (and all)- Don’t let this put you off your plans, routines, etc. There were 150(ish) killed in this attack, in a city with a population of over 2.25 million. What is the true probability that it would have been you if you were in Paris. Same goes for London (or any other large city). In reality the probability of you getting targeted or even being near the attack is miniscule.

    The terrorist want you to be scared. That’s the point. Just carry on as usual and don’t play into their hands.

    mitsumonkey
    Free Member

    What has happened is truly awful and very difficult to comprehend. I hope France manages to get control.
    Howver I have had concerns over the channel tunnel for months now, if refugees can just walk in what’s to stop a terrorist with a bomb? Am I the only one to think that?

    jamj1974
    Full Member

    so called surveillance state

    .

    There is nothing “so called” about it. It is a surveillance state and becoming more so. Wether you are comfortable with that or not is a different thing.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Bencooper – unfortunately you could give every Syrian a palace in the UK and it wouldn’t stop the terrorism. Re housing refugees isn’t the answer either. Sorting out the problems in their country is the answer, not doing something that gives westerners a feel good factor

    jamj1974
    Full Member

    hora – Member
    Bencooper how so?

    It’s just token gestures greatly after the event. A good decade+ after the event.

    Don’t let it be a token gesture.

    zippykona
    Full Member

    Do the security services in the UK have a better rapport with “our” Muslims than the french?

    wrecker
    Free Member

    wrecker – perhaps you need to spend a bit of time reading about the decades of terrorism on the French mainland in the 2nd half of last century. Almost 30 in the 80s alone with over 60 killed, far more than the ones in the UK in the same decade (approx 10 attacks and 30+ killed outside the sectarian violence in NI). Just because you haven’t paid attention doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

    WTF?

    atlaz
    Free Member

    Mainland GB attacks. Otherwise we can throw in the deaths in Algeria during the colonial times and it starts to get very complicated as to what counts as terrorism.

    Inbred456
    Free Member

    I don’t think that we have better intelligence service than the French. Their problem if it is a problem is that they are one of the most open, inclusive and democratic societies in Europe. They have a very large population with a large population of Muslims that a small percentage of Radicals can hide behind.
    We are an island state with policed borders where every aspect of our lives are micro managed by the government and security services, because of that we are possibly a harder target.
    Time and time again the French amaze me with their attitude towards these atrocities.

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