Sharia law in Sudan. How can this be happening in the 21st Century?

There are plenty of barbaric and terrible things happening in this world at the moment, many much more unjust than even this case and on a much larger scale – yet this particular case, hyped by the media, seems to be the ‘fashionable’ one for the ‘latte drinking’ classes to be outraged about at the moment.

Then why dont you start threads about them then? Your approach seems to be because there are other injustices we shouldn’t worry about this one. Shall we just have a big “injustithon” and the one that comes out on top is the only one we should concern ourselves with?

here’s quite an interesting perspective on religious intolerance from a British muslim who describes his experience. It’s quite interesting.

link linky

You can be as outraged as you like. But you have to ask the logical question ‘what can we do about it?’ And I’m afraid the answer is ‘nothing’. Because they don’t give a toss about what you think. The fact that you’re outraged probably makes it better, because if a corrupt westerner disapproves then we’re definitely doing something right!

Have you signed the petition? Like throwing your shoes at the sky to protest about clouds.

binners – Member
You can be as outraged as you like. But you have to ask the logical question ‘what can we do about it?’ And I’m afraid the answer is ‘nothing’.

Rubbish….see below.

convert – Member

I think that would be my choice (a trade ban) – but it would be absolutely nothing to do with trying to change their society or force our belief system on them and with very little regard to the consequences it might have to their population. It would be an internal message to our own population – ‘we wash our hands of people and societies like this; we know better than to attempt to influence and we (now) are better than wanting to make a profit from them too.’

Someone on an earlier page had a rantette about everyone being in a bubble and having no idea about societies other than our own. I don’t agree – folk may not be well versed in the subtleties of other cultures but the fact that a conversation on a mountain bike forum on this subject is happening at all is a stellar advertisement for the information available in the west in the internet era. It is places like Sudan that are in a bubble and it is the ignorance of that bubble that means that acts like this happen. If I really wanted to try to change and influence a place like Sudan I would flood the place with uncensored internet access through distributing satellite phones and repositioning a few communication satellites. No favourite sites with careful messages preprogrammed, just straightforward access and let the population educate themselves more broadly and make their own minds up.

Convert gets it.

If I really wanted to try to change and influence a place like Sudan I would flood the place with uncensored internet access through distributing satellite phones and repositioning a few communication satellites. No favourite sites with careful messages preprogrammed, just straightforward access and let the population educate themselves more broadly and make their own minds up.

I think I’ve spotted a flaw in your master plan. I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that given its a country full of muslamic loons, maybe at least 50% of the population won’t have attended school, so can’t actually read. I’d also hazard a guess that it wasn’t at the top of the agenda for the other 50% either

Its potentially a better idea than the petition though. But still not as good as….

Pah

FWIW I’ve been to Khartoum five or six times and have some Sudanese customers and friends there and here in the UK. Without exception thy are the most charming, hospitable and friendly people you could want to know. They are also very funny and like laughing and joking around. But they are all deeply religious and on the couple of occasions when the conversation has strayed onto politics and America I’ve sensed that the degree of indoctrination is so deep that I’ve no chance of having a rational discussion and I’ve steered away from touchy subjects.

It’s my strong feeling that religious fundamentalism needs ignorance to thrive and that as soon as people begin to be educated, religion begins to lose its significance to them. That will be the reason why Book-o Haram in Nigeria don’t want girls to be educated, I guess.

Sanctions – great idea for a country where half the population are already starving!

Sanctions wouldn’t really affect the poor, the foreign aid would still get through. Sanctions on the rich and people with power are whats needed as these are the people who make the decisions.

The only reason this story has got to the media is her husband is a US citizen. Hundreds if not thousands of people in Africa are in the same situation, sat on death row for being gay/wrong religion etc.

Where does the intervention stop just her or do we keep going and end up running the countries for them? I do feel sorry for people in these situations but really what can we actually do, we have limited resources in cleansing the world of barbaric acts.

Africa is developing and doing well at it, but it is still generations behind us. We need to consider that when comparing actions with our world and it wasn’t long a go when you be locked up for being gay or even earlier burned for being a witch and not accepting Christianity.

thrive and that as soon as people begin to be educated, religion begins to lose its significance to them. That will be the reason why Book-o Haram in Nigeria don’t want girls to be educated, I guess.

If only. There are a significant number of educated fundamentalists and the 9/11 pilots are an example.

I’m sure the points been made that it’s their country and what right have we in imposing our western values and way of life. Opinion generated as always from the comfy chair at home with no understanding of others and their deeply held beliefs. Intervention just makes us the targets and sanctions just hurt the people.

Want to. Influence what goes on? Then use diplomacy, support and engagement at all levels of the government and people. Be seen as supportive and change can happen.

We need to be to be more tolerant and understanding

Open, free access to the internet is an interesting and possible solution.

Right now look at whats happening in Iran with those guys that filmed themselved dancing. Slowly the population moves forward and the politics, religious leaders either get left behind or follow as well.

May take time, but its like the tide, no stopping it when the population start to move as a force.

Sometimes it can move fast, look at how fast things moved in North Africa recently. Not all for the better, but its allowed people to be heard.

Religious fundamentalism is on the rise in the richest, best educated countries in the world.
It is not compatable with democracy and is a corrosive and divisive step backward.

If we genuinely value our current democracies we need to stop pandering to those who demand that we keep chipping away at the core values of them.

We need to be to be more tolerant and understanding

Of what? Misogynistic extremist bigots?

Rusty Spanner – Member
Religious fundamentalism is on the rise in the richest, best educated countries in the world.
It is not compatable with democracy and is a corrosive and divisive step backward.

If we genuinely value our current democracies we need to stop pandering to those who demand that we keep chipping away at the core values of them.

Exactly.

We need to be to be more tolerant and understanding

Who is the ‘we’ you refer to- the observers, or the oppressors?

Religious fundamentalism is on the rise in the richest, best educated countries in the world.
It is not compatable with democracy and is a corrosive and divisive step backward.

If we genuinely value our current democracies we need to stop pandering to those who demand that we keep chipping away at the core values of them.

+1

We need to be to be more tolerant and understanding

Of primitive, ranty, explodey beardies with Kalashnikovs?

If I sign the petition will it stop the executor from killing her?

Try to turn infiltrate them all their society with Atheism and ethical thinking to Christian faith and values

Nothing to kill or die for…

It’s my strong feeling that religious fundamentalism needs ignorance to thrive and that as soon as people begin to be educated, religion begins to lose its significance to them.

So are all the Sudenese friends and customers you have, that you need to avoid “touchy subjects” with, ignorant and uneducated then ?

Sanctions wouldn’t really affect the poor, the foreign aid would still get through. Sanctions on the rich and people with power are whats needed as these are the people who make the decisions.

Afraid I have to disagree with you here, it’s only physical aid that makes any difference (i.e. volunteers building wells, schools, education, etc). Any monetary aid, and a lot of the food aid is quickly siphoned off to benefit those in power or their corrupt associates. Almost none reaches those who needed it most.

Saw a very good documentary on this a while back and it was shocking. Sanctions would only hurt those who are already starving. Lets just say that the rich elite in these countries have often obtained their wealth in ways which are ‘less legitimate’ than the international trade which would be subject to any sanctions agreement.

I was suggesting we don’t know all the facts and it’s their country, a sovereign state. Just happens that your outraged at what you believe is unacceptable. That’s a subjective view. I don’t find Turkeys invasion of Cyprus and their ethnic and religious repression acceptable or Russia’s destabilising the Ukraine. That’s also subjective. But I’m not advocating escalating to armed intervention or sanctions. Your whole argument is based on your own personal values. Where do we stop? What about Saudi and Bahrain or Iran?

We also need to read the story of the woman and ask a few questions. What’s she doing there? Is she trying to make a religious point? She’s married to an American. I remember the 19 Japanese Christians distributing Christian literature in Iraq. The were captured and killed. And to stop the sentence she need only renounce her faith and then she can leave the country and join her husband. A temporary small price to pay rather than armed intervention from the west.

BTW I don’t agree with what their government is doing but feel a peaceful solution is achievable and it’s within her gift to resolve

So its her own fault then? For someone who deosnt know the facts you are certaily adept at extrapolating.

Just happens that your outraged at what you believe is unacceptable. That’s a subjective view

You are wrong and I made this point earlier if you care to read it. If you cant see that there are certain human behaviors that are unambiguously viewed as unacceptable amongst pretty much all members of the human race (I used the random example of child murder) and you continue to argue that without knowing the full circumstances and cultural environment that you cant judge then your moral compass is in serious need of recalibration.

And to stop the sentence she need only renounce her faith and then she can leave the country and join her husband. A temporary small price to pay

For a Christians that would be a huge price to pay.

I agree with you. I’m not saying it’s her fault. But like all these news stories I’d think you’d agree we don’t have all the facts. My moral compass is fine I’m just not jumping to conclusions having worked in these areas the truth is not always what is published in the media. She has transgressed their laws wether we agree with their laws or not. She also has a way out. I for one in her position would take the easy way out for the sake of my children.

would take the easy way

Apart from the 100 lashes for adultery.

having worked in these areas the truth is not always what is published in the media.

So she hasn’t been sentenced to death then? That’s a relief.