Sense check… keep or remove SRAM AXS Transmission from a new bike

It really does though – as an actual principle – you remove a part from the required parts list – shifter, cable and mech becomes just shifter and cable.

As an absolutely basic KISS piece, it does do this. If you then look into each part, it probably doesn’t, but the overall piece it really does. 3 required bits down to 2 – if the piece is how many parts are needed to move the chain on my bike on the cassette. If the queation is any more detailed than that then I reckon you are right.

Undeniably, axs more expensive to fix

Undeniably, axs more opportunity to get bent over form obsolescence by the manufacturer.

Personal choice whether the improvements in performance and convenience are worth these downsides

dick – you require an actuator / servo, electronic circuits and a battery to replace a cable.  Levers are exchanged for buttons.

 Levers are exchanged for buttons.

But if the actual failure rate for the button is equal or less than the mechanical shifter failure rate, then it meets KISS.  and if they both fail, replacing the buttons is easier than replacing the mechanical shifter, although less chance of fixing it I guess. Although last time a mechanical shifter failed on me – a GX that had a plastic component wear out, I couldn’t get a replacement part for it anyway or work out how it all went together for that matter.

I don’t think it’s that simple.

OP, I think I’d live with it for a while before stripping it all off the bike.

Agreed, @tjagain, but you are now looking at the individual parts, so have gone from high level overview to a more in-depth look at each part solution. As said, there is no cable, so at a very high level you have replaced 3 required parts with just 2 required parts…which is definitely simpler. Once you zoom into each part, it isn’t.

Can’t add anything technical to the discussion. However, I would have actively avoided electric shifting, but i was offered a great price on a Mondraker Neat, and the AXS came already fitted. Despite being a total sceptic before, I’d probably spec it on future bikes if I could afford it. I like it a lot. Low hassle, and no cables to stretch. I will admit that I’m still in the honeymoon phase though – I’ve been running the AXS for about 8 weeks.

i will say that I haven’t had to charge it at all in that time, despite riding every day, and sometimes twice a day. There is an SRAM app, so I periodically check that the battery is ok. I never ride without my phone, so I don’t find that an imposition.

Likewise I wouldn’t have chosen it but it came on a bike I bought over a year ago and now I love the ‘free from cables’ performance (not just because of internal routing) that I’m spending silly money replacing a knackered dropper with an AXS reverb

Never used AXS myself but one of the guys I ride with has it on his Atherton.  He recently replaced it with12 speed XT and a cable shifter, that lasted for about a week before the AXS went back on.  He said that the  AXS was just so much better.

I used to take the mickey out of one of our group for having AXS on his mountain bike but then I got a new bike with it on and have completely changed my mind about it. It’s great. I can’t even really explain why because it wasn’t really a chore pushing a lever, but now it’s my favourite thing on the bike. If only I could afford a dropper too.

..and if you’re worried about longevity or it being fragile, watch the YouTube video of Doddy dunking it into a fish tank and leaving it in his freezer.

longevity

the water and freezing test is more about robustness. Longevity is more likely to be how long S&S will maintain the firmware and app for.

I suppose it’s likely to be a few years so maybe there’ll be no ‘forgotten tech’ problems?

I’ve had mine for a year now with zero issues. Surprised to hear of the issues about shifting while in transit. Never seen anything but my thumb activate the shifter and never seen any inexplicable drop in charge.

Depends on how it is transported – if nothing else next to bike then likely zero issues, if you squeeze the bike in with everything else then there is a chance the bike or other stuff shifts and the controller button is pressed.
Happened to me once as I hadn’t realised the bike had shifted.
I’m 5 years in on my X01 rear mech and it has been brilliant…new jockey wheels but everything is still tight and working as expected, a few scrapes but still shifting like new. 5 years isn’t long, but it is a reasonable start!

I always thought electric shifting was a  gimmick

Few months back test road a few light weight emtbs that came with a mixture of AXS and Di2

To me absolutely makes sense on an MTB now, more so than a road bike, and an emtb a no brainer

Yes you get no feeling when changing gear, but let’s face it a very well set up manual shift is fairly feeling less. It’s only when gears are not synced properly that you really feel the gear change.

Anyhow my new emtb will have Di2 , because it offers further benefits with Shimano motors . Not sure why AXS is so much more expensive than Di2 , I found both brilliant in operation just the AXS shifter is more ergonomic. Fast crisp shifting , which must save wear on the drivetrain.

Ive wondered myself if these system are truly clever and prevent shifts if too much load going through the drivetrain ?

What bike are you loooking at op ?

Just as an aside Sram X01 AXS is £299 on merlin at the money.

(Just the shifter )

I got one just in case my GX dies.

My gravel bike came with AXS two years ago. I was skeptical but love it. I’m trying to justify an AXS dropper for it now but struggling with that :)

I’m trying to justify an AXS dropper for it now but struggling with that :)

I have one on my Revolt X, it is brilliant..

Sorry  :)

This debate is interesting…I was fairly set on a Canyon Neuron CF8 with SLX, until I then noticed Canyon have 2 versions of the CF9 – one is the top spec, which at £4.4k is way out of my league, however, the CF9 AXS is £2.5k. The CF8 is £2.2k. Other than transmission, the CF9 seems to have the better spec fork (FIT vs Grip damper), but then it’s just SRAM vs Shimano on brakes etc. Such dilemmas (laughing emoji!)

Just as an aside Sram X01 AXS is £299 on merlin at the money.

(Just the shifter )

I got one just in case my GX dies.

the world has gone mad, spending that kind of money on a just in case shifter?

I suppose it comes down to money really. wireless droppers are heavier cost £500! and with internally routed cables , im struggling to see any benefit apart from the 2 times a year max, that I remove my dropper?

If youve got that kind of cash spare then thats absolutely fine, but it just seems crazy to me, £500 quid would be halfway to a weeks MTB in the alps! and Id take that every time

It’s £225 for a GX mech, £299 for X01 mech. No battery, though.

Shifters are £70 & £75 for GX, £90 for X01/XX1

Tbh, that’s posh mechanical kit type money (almost, at RRP)

that kind of money on a just in case shifter?

I think he meant rear mech but got mixed up in the excitement

wireless droppers are heavier cost £500!

New Fox Neo is out (I’m sure it will get a mention on STW this week) and it’s four figures!

I think its the rear mech at that price. Battery is extra. Shifters start at £70. Still quite a lot of money, probably double what a normal one would cost.

Some will think its wort it, some wont.

New Fox Neo is out (I’m sure it will get a mention on STW this week) and it’s four figures!

£1149 here, or $850 in the states. One to smuggle back from holiday…

One to smuggle back from holiday…

Don’t forget to smuggle a spare battery – Jeff Kendall-Mintcake liked it bar the price and the poor battery life.

Di2 isn’t wireless, is it? Less tech needed so likely to be cheaper. Wireless is fantastic but an wired solution should still be a more consistent shift than a mechanical solution as well.

I wouldn’t go out my way to replace it, but if the bike came with it all good. The shifting on my di 2 and sram red isn’t any better than on my 10 speed tiagra winter bike tbh,  but it’s certainly no worse, and I’ve never run out of charge

One to smuggle back from holiday…

Just pray it doesn’t extend itself when you’re walking through the green channel.

I always thought electric shifting was a  gimmick

So did i, so i tried loads of it (Red eTap, Di2 10, 11 12 speed, Di2 wireless, EPS, SRAM AXS (on and off road varieties)

It’s still a gimmick, a couple of the add on gimmicks i quite liked, so when a bike came up with only a €400 or so price hike over the similarly equipped mechanical version (and available immediately, not 12 months down the line) i bought it.

It’s just a different way of cutting the same cake. It’s no faster or more accurate than my mech systems, if anything the AXS was worse. It’s no lighter. No more durable, no more repeatable. Doesn’t really need more, or less, looking after. *Shrug*

An interesting thing about Transmission is that all the reviews talk about the smoother but slower shifting. And they say exactly the same thing about LinkGlide – which is heavier but more durable and a fraction of the price. Yes it’s got cables to deal with but also no batteries to charge.

Genuinely stuck to see why the battery charging is such an issue – it gets done every few weeks and is the same kind of effort as plugging a bike computer in to charge up – which many people have and do. Those that don’t are likely to have a mobile phone that will need recharged more often than the axs battery…plugging stuff in to recharge is an incredibly common thing nowadays, so this new bit of tech really is no different.

“Genuinely stuck to see why the battery charging is such an issue”

My phone gets charged every day etc because it always needs charging. My lights get charged before every night ride. My ebike gets charged before every proper MTB ride.

I don’t like things that are critical but only require infrequent charging – I’m guaranteed to forget!

Once I got back into MTBing in 2009, in a brave new world of suspension and disc brakes and dropper posts, it became obvious after a few years that half-decent gears like SLX just worked and anything fancier was cost for minimal benefit – whilst the best suspension and brakes actually work better. Electric gears strike me as a way to make the bike industry more profitable.

It isn’t infrequent charging though…it is more efficient power use…and it has ways of alerting you so it isn’t even guesswork.

Mech goes from a green led to red – needs charged. If you have the app installed, it also reports when charging is needed. If you connect axs to your bike computer that will also tell you. If you buy it, you aren’t likely to forget to charge it after the first time you forget.

Plenty of ways and it takes no time at all to plug it in and charge.

We do this with so many other things that it is a non-starter as a negative.

On balance, I think I might keep it at least until the original cassette wears out.

Cheers all, sticking with this plan.

Will see how I like it, how long it lasts, and whether cassettes will drop from £200 (that’s how much they are discounted from £270 at the moment) or the S1000 XS-1270 ones will be available retail. If I’m not delighted then £250 Shimano 12 cabled will be going on.

Maybe 18 Bikes will have done something with their cable routing headset prototype by then, which routes the cable outside the bearing rather than through it. https://www.facebook.com/reel/1383101916417519

We do this with so many other things that it is a non-starter as a negative.

How many more things do we want in our lives to be checking and charging? Bikes should have zero batteries to charge or one, ideally. All these little batteries distributed all over your bike feel like an evolutionary step that we’ll look back on and laugh at one day.

GX AXS I get about 2-3 weeks between the led going from green to red. Never had a total power loss.

Did have a shifter CR2032 go flat but had a spare with me. This was after 2 years use, which is longer than an inner and outer cable change.

Totally understand if people don’t want AXS. I do and think it’s mint, but I absolutely want the option of cable as a back up just in case. And also if I sell i will keep it and hoy cable on.

the world has gone mad, spending that kind of money on a just in case shifter.

Sorry – derailleur. They were about 400 normally.

I purchased many things early in the pandemic when they were below standard street prices and used them over that period when stuff went short towards the back end of the pandemic.

I will use it at some point on a bike.

“ We do this with so many other things that it is a non-starter as a negative.”

Doing it with SO MANY other things is exactly why I don’t want to have to do it with a bike. It’s a similar thing with guitar and bass amps for me – yes, lots of things are digital and can be connected to computers for further tweaking or updates etc but when I’m making music I don’t want to do that, I want to get away from computers!

With bikes I’m happy to use an ebike because charging that up gives up significant advantages vs a normal bike. Same with digital recording on computers. In an ideal world I’d have the time/energy/uplifts? to not use an ebike and the time/money to be using reel to reel tape for recording. But in the world I live in those bits of tech have a useful advantage.

Anyway, tonight I shall have charged my lights but nothing else because I’ll be singlespeeding!

Did have GX AXS (not transmission) and it was great/faultless, until it wasn’t

The derailleur died suddenly mid ride and I was stuck in one gear. Sounds ok, except this was a weekend away at Cwm Carn & BPW.

Total PITA over that weekend and although SRAM replaced it FOC under warranty, I then sold it and have gone back to cable. Much happier knowing i have a £40-50 spare derailleur on the shelf that I can swap out in 15mins if I need to

If you run a Garmin you can pair the bike and it will give you a read out of the gear you’re in.

I see it can collect stats of how much you use each gear over a ride too.

It will also give a beep to let you know you’ve ran out of gears, which is really depressing on a normal bike.

I see it beeps when you shift into that final gear, and it’s just a normal Garmin beep. I’d think I’d prefer if it did a distinctive error double beep or something only when you’re in the final gear and try to shift further in that direction.

Living with batteries is okay, keep a spare shifter battery with your pump etc and check your derailleur battery after each ride and you should be fine unless you’re planning a big ride.

If you have the app installed, it also reports when charging is needed. If you connect axs to your bike computer that will also tell you.

I’ll routine check, and given the app notifies you too I don’t think I need a spare.

On the battery discharging when in/on car, I have found that if the bike is lying flat inside the car it doesn’t deplete at all, however if upright on towbar rack it can lose half its charge in an hour or 2 driving,

Yes, drove 200 miles with it lying flat, hasn’t made a dent in the battery according to the app.

You can set them up to shift more gears on a long hold. 3 at a time is spot on, whole block is silly fast and also I think voids warranty if done on ebikes.

Says in the app any multishift voids the warranty on ebikes, not just the whole block setting.