Salmond steps down!

27 people have posted on this thread, it doesn’t quite add up to ‘most english folk’.

Or many members especially when you take away the scottish ones who have replied.

Ok, English point of view if you want one.

Is it the official one ?

I was tired of hearing how an independent Scotland would keep the pound

They’d have had even less support if talked about not keeping the pound so could never allow that to be seen as a considered option.

ernie_lynch – Member
Ok, English point of view if you want one.
Is it the official one ?

No, just mine. Perhaps I should have said ‘one English point of view if you want one’. I forgot that there are better pedants than me (just for a minute) – dammit.

Cameron: I will not resign if Scotland becomes independent.

Salmond: Resigned when he couldn’t deliver what he believed in.

Whom do you respect more? I know my answer.

Maybe the sums didn’t add up, but I’m sure they would have worked something out. Several ex-British colonies are now prospering (not that Scotland are a colony) post independence. If they could work out their problems 50 years ago the Scots would have found a way to make it work in this day and age.

Meanwhile at Westminster, more of the same bullstuff.

I do hope Westminster politicians don’t disappoint.

Whom do you respect more? I know my answer.

Cameron still had a country to ruin either way.

Can’t say I’m sad to see him go, his big ego ride has failed to achieve his aim. In massaging his ego he’s put a huge expense and managed to cause divisions within both Scotland and to an extent the wider UK that will take time to heal.

I don’t think leading a party that has one single aim; to achieve Scottish independence and pursuing that aim to the best of your ability could be called an ego trip. He has a smugness that much is true.

Cameron would have gone if the referendum has been lost – but before the vote he had to say he wouldn’t so people wouldn’t be encouraged to vote yes to get rid of him.

They’d have had even less support if talked about not keeping the pound so could never allow that to be seen as a considered option.

I think this is right, he took the political judgement that taking the hits on his pound position was better electorally than the alternative. He ducked and dived like a master, but some blows got through. I, unlike some, don’t blame for this, it is part of politics. Leaders sometimes have to do this to effect the change they believe is required and I have no doubt he believed in an independent Scotland. There is no doubt he is a considerable political operator and should be lauded accordingly.

Perhaps if the ego wasn’t in the way, the deceitful one woild have prepared for independence properly instead of relying in lies and deceit. The people of the UK deserved more and in the end, despite much in his favour, he blew it.

Lauded accordingly – as the man who wouldn’t give a straight answer? Prepared to lie to achieve his aims? What kind of praise is that worth?

Well he strikes me as a pretty decent sort of bloke, and one who knows a think or or two about life in the real world. Not many of those in politics.

That is where I disagree with you – THM – whilst I completely agree with most of your economic analysis – I disagree with your political analysis. I think you putting too much blame on Salmond, much of the blame falls the opposition for failing to land the blows. He took a gamble like the best politicians often do, and he didn’t quite pull it off – but he didn’t have a great hand, the referendum was 10 years too late.

I did’nt always agree with Salmond, but he worked hard and transformed the SNP and delivered a referendum. He can go with his head held high.

THm perhaps you have a nickname for Cameron or Milliband now that they’ve broken their “vow”

And complaining about a politician having an ego is like complaining about a footballer’s interior decor taste.

Fraser Nelson, the Spectator, puts it better than me, but I guess that is why he is an editor and I crunch numbers.

Alex Salmond has proved himself the most effective party leader in Europe, let alone Britain. He has just run a terrifyingly effective campaign, perhaps the best I will ever witness. I could not disagree more with his aims, but to me that makes his achievement all the more remarkable.

I doubt any other politician could have sold such a bad idea to 45 per cent of Scots. He ran rings around his opponents, outsmarting them all. He was so damn infuriating because he was so damn good: able to use humour, anger, audacity and caution when each was required. I can’t think of many politicians with his versatility. As a unionist, I’m delighted that the sharpest fang in the SNPs mouth is being extracted. Or is extracting himself.

Anyone who remembers John Swinney’s leadership of the SNP will know what the party is like without Salmond in charge. But as a journalist, I’ll miss the one of the most extraordinary politicians I have ever met. The union will be safer without him. But politics will be a lot more boring.

It is a touch hyperbolic but that’s journalism for you.

The NO campaign was crap, I agree Mefty and the sight of CMD, EM and NC in panic mode was shocking. But I have been consistent form the start (and as someone who is in favour of localised power) at my hatred of AS’s lies. Even before the Book of Dreams I watched him use manipulation and deceit as the principle weapons of bullying others. Hence I have never had any time for him. I hate dishonesty and deceit and bullying. Watching him completely manipulate the debate – with considerable success as the Osbourne thread showed – made me sick of what politics has become. We are meant to be proud and praise people who deliberately deceive and lie to achieve their goals?? Sorry, but I do not swallow that. I am ashamed of that not proud of it.

Tbh his campaign was full of contradictions, so honest but the words……..

Churchill was one of the greatest deceivers, it is sometimes required – but I am afraid I see it as failure of his inquisitors, he went all in on a busted prospectus and nearly got away with it – and don’t pretend more work would have produced a better prospectus. I too prefer my political leadership straight, but you sometimes have to appreciate the baddie’s performance.

. I hate dishonesty and deceit and bullying

yet you’re ok with working in a parasite industry that is predicated in lending money it didn’t have which when it collapsed caused the deepest recession in living memory? The same industry that uses futures speculation to keep fuel prices high whilst oil prices are lower than they’ve been for years?

No, the idea of a fairer society built on a foundation of deceit and lies, doesn’t wash.

I had the debate with three MPs two weekends ago about why are they so impotent when faced with a Salmond or a Farrage. Very weak answers. It’s a problem with modern politics especially as BS fits well with twitter and Facebook.

I am not a banker. But banks (can) provide benefits to many, so reject your assumptions anyway. I have seen that happen in many emerging economies.

Cameron: I will not resign if Scotland becomes independent.

Salmond: Resigned when he couldn’t deliver what he believed in.

Whom do you respect more? I know my answer.

first comment from the resident Scot at my work was ” I heard he was in ill health”

I am not a banker. But banks (can) provide benefits to many, so reject your assumptions anyway. I have seen that happen in many emerging economies.
you, according to you, lunch with “senior Tory MPs”
You, according to you, made money out of currency speculation in the run up to the referedum.
Either you’re not a financial services parasite, in which case your earlier posts mark you as a liar or you are, in which case this one does.
Not looking for a discussion here, just pointing out your bullshittery

Either way

I am not a b****.

FTFY

Divided a country on his party’s single policy politics, whilst failing to enact any of the powers bestowed on the Scottish Parliament or giving serious answers to serious questions. Glad the odious man has gone. And I would have been happy with a yes vote!

he didn’t have a great hand, the referendum was 10 years too late.

You think that 10 years ago when Labour were in power, still popular, and about to win a third term with a comfortable majority, and the economy was ‘booming’, would have been a better time for Salmond to win a referendum in Tory free Scotland, than now when the Tories are in Westminster and so lacking in support that they have to rely on a coalition with a now totally discredited minor party, as they implement deeply unpopular “austerity measures” ? 😯

Don’t think independence was ever on the cards in the current climate. He needed something external that could help power the campaign. Most successful independence referenda in other countries have been in response to geopolitical events, usually major ones. Salmond didn’t have that at all and I think there’s a limit to how far he could drive things in that events-vacuum.

Massive effort from him all the same – you can only pish with the dick you’ve got and he seized the opportunity.

ernie_lynch – On reflection, probably not, I had limited my thinking to more oil to fill the hole in the economic case.

I’d just like to point out the first post on here suggesting he’d be going soon 8)

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/osbourne-says-no-to-currency-union/page/357#post-6324959

I never particularly liked him but he obviously was a capable politician and as others have said transformed the fortunes of the SNP. It will be interesting to see what happens to the party now, having lost such a forceful leader and also having lost its chance to achieve its primary goal (at least for quite some time).

I had partly suspected he wouldn’t stay for long whichever way the referendum went. On the other hand with a no vote I couldn’t decide whether he’d go immediately or stay long enough to lead wrangling further devolved powers from Westminster – maybe trying to be remembered for something more than being the SNP leader who nearly but didn’t quite get what they wanted. To be honest, even as someone who isn’t an SNP supporter I think it’d be to Scotland’s advantage if he stayed involved in the devo max negotiations even after the SNP conference.

We’ll at least the smug bar steward is gone. Although he was certainly a good politician and better than the current pm et al.

The writing was on the wall for him as soon as the referendum was announced as it was never going to realistically be a yes vote, then add to the fact that his own constituency voted 60% no it was his final nail in the coffin for him.

Unfortunately we’re now most likely going to be stuck with Nicola (I haven’t got a clue what I’m talking about) Sturgeon fronting the SNP given there’s nobody else to do the job now fat eck is gone.

ernie_lynch – Member

he didn’t have a great hand, the referendum was 10 years too late.

You think that 10 years ago when the economy was Labour were in power, still popular, and about to win a third term with a comfortable majority, and the economy was ‘booming’, would have been a better time for Salmond to win a referendum in Tory free Scotland, than now when the Tories are in Westminster and so lacking in support that they have to rely on a coalition with a now totally discredited minor party, as they implement deeply unpopular “austerity measures” ? Think you could argue both sides of that – dissatisfaction with the current government and malaise / disenfranchisement with Westminster supported a yes. OTOH, the global recession absolutely walloped it. Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Spain on the bones of their collective aris rocked confidence for an independent Scotland.

Yeah, well he could have run the arc of prosperity argument, plus it was after we went into Iraq, so maybe it wouldn’t have been a dead duck, but frankly we would be having an argument about hypotheticals as a result of an off the cuff comment I made based on oil – which would only really be attractive to those who suffer from what the Norwegians describe (loosely) as “fear of the sheets syndrome”

Divided a country on his party’s single policy politics,

apart from would never have been elected on a single policy

whilst failing to enact any of the powers bestowed on the Scottish Parliament

except free transort for pensioners, free higher/further education, which were some of the powers

or giving serious answers to serious questions.

or for that matter getting Cameron to engage with him

Glad the odious man has gone. And I would have been happy with a yes vote!

And also why half of Scotland would have been happy to disassociate with a country that contains you

Unfortunately we’re now most likely going to be stuck with Nicola (I haven’t got a clue what I’m talking about) Sturgeon fronting the SNP given there’s nobody else to do the job now fat eck is gone.

She seems to be even more well thought of than Salmond.

TiRed – Member

Divided a country on his party’s single policy politics

1) The SNP have been running the country for 7 years; nobody can consider them a single issue party. In fact, we’ve just seen there is more support for the SNP in parliament, than there is for independence!

2) The SNP grew out of the scottish desire for independence, not the other way round. It’s something that existed long before Salmond was born. He didn’t create a cause; he chose to lead one that was there already. So if there’s a divide, it obviously can’t be of his making, unless amongst his various talents is time travel.

It’s simply ignorance to say that the SNP is a single issue party. It’s just factually untrue. They’re a long established typical centrist European party with extensive experience in government.

bikebouy – Member
I think he’s done rather well, always stood for what he believed in when many couldn’t even see a vision.
Good leader, not the most comprehensive but folks believed in him and his ideals.

Happy to have at least seen him able to fight, stood up and was counted when it mattered.

He’s left a legacy and chaos in his wake mind
So basically you’re saying he was JUST LIKE HITLER.

ChubbyBlokeInLycra – Member
you, according to you, lunch with “senior Tory MPs”

BS – one labour, two Tories at an event promoting investment in third world actually. Problems with that?

You, according to you, made money out of currency speculation in the run up to the referedum.

True, when faced with challenges, you can turn then to your advantage and learn from them, or moan about them on the internet. I shared an idea where you could increase you investment substantially. What was your choice?

Either you’re not a financial services parasite

BS – just use my education. Parasite? Nice BTW. I assume that you have never taken out a loan or used a credit or debit card? It would be very hypocritical to support the parasites after all.

in which case your earlier posts mark you as a liar

BS – Nice again. You are a real charmer (have you read the forum rules?)

Not looking for a discussion here, just pointing out your bullshittery

Are you AS disguise? This is his tactic, Talk BS and try not to debate it, because he knows he is wrong from the start.

Anyway, pleasant original post???? You will get over the result in time. Good luck with that.

which would only really be attractive to those who suffer from what the Norwegians describe (loosely) as “fear of the sheets syndrome”

Yes, but saying that is a bit like being the cross-eyed yak in the Tibetan proverb, as I’m sure you’ll agree!!!