Salmond on Newsnight

Junkyard
Self determination trum,ps the union each time

If that were true, no nation state would exist as self determination would continue down to the lowest common denominator and that would be silly. Of course, there will be points at which the benefits of self-determination will outweigh those of union and vice versa. The only question is where is that point?

Next up can we have a learned discussion of the difference between treaties and acts? Surely between two countries it should have been a treaty not an act? Was it legal in the first place?

Why are all you Englanders so scared of Scotland going it alone.?

We’re not
We just want to make sure you’ve emptied your pockets and settled your bill before you go

Please stop going on its getting boring.

In 2 years we will go our sepperate ways.

Wee will take approx 1/10 of the UK fixed assest wealth developed during the union, and 1/10 of the debt. Based on approx populations.

The Oil is ours in the same way the coal and tin etc thats in the ground is Englands.

Then we can all live happily ever after with England buying our Oil, Water, Gas and tidal, wind wave power. While your at it you can Pay rent for the Nuclear bases and pay for any war you want to join with uncle sam as his bitch.

teamhurtmore – you will need to rewrite the UN charter then.

TJ – explain please?

I didn’t realise a lot of sea battles had been fought in the North Sea. Which nations did the ‘English’ navy protect us Scots from.

Do you seriously believe that without the protection offered by the British navy that the waters around the Scottish mainland would have simply been left alone out of good heartedness by the surrounding countries?

As I already said.. an unsavoury side effect of this Scottish nationalism has been the rapid rise in resentment. Even as an ex resident with family still up there, I rarely if ever give the miserable place a second thought. I just want the breakup to be fair to the rest of the UK.

Do you seriously believe that without the protection offered by the British navy that the waters around the Scottish mainland would have simply been left alone out of good heartedness by the surrounding countries?

Norway? Sweden? Denmark? Iceland? (oh wait, you’re right. we did have sea battles with the Icelandic navy. Thanks for bailing us out)

Any you wonder why there is a problem elzorillo. Haste ye back not!

the waters around the Scottish mainland would have simply been left alone out of good heartedness by the surrounding countries?

You do know Scotland’s surronded by water on three sides and has England to the south? And that Norway and the Faroes don’t really have much a reputation as aggressors? In fact the only one of our neighbours who likes fighting is the one to the south. So once we’re shot of them, we’ll be fighting a few less pointless and probably illegal wars.
And based on the number of irish travelers, you haven’t done a great job of keeping them out, have you?

I rarely if ever give the miserable place a second thought.

that’ll be why your opinion is so poorly thought out then.

You do know Scotland’s surronded by water on three sides and has England to the south? And that Norway and the faroes don’t reaaly have much a reputation as aggressors?

I suggest you have a look at the naval battles fought in the north sea during WW1 and WW2.

Will the SRU allow cameras into the dressing rooms at Murrayfield, so that we can listen to Andy Robinson do a Phil Bennett and wind up the Scots team to a frenzy of anti-English hatred? It would be very funny to watch!

Or are there too few players on either side that are true Scots/English for it to matter (beyond the cash)? 😉

I suggest you have a look at the naval battles fought in the north sea during WW1 and WW2.

Like the Battle of May Island?

Incidentally, where did the Navy keep it’s Grand Fleet during these wars?
Do you think it might have been in England’s interest to keep the eastern seaways open?
You do also know that the aim of naval action during these wars was to maintain a blockade on Germany maintaining an offensive position rather than a defensive “protect the homeland” one?
Probably not, probably just staying true to form and posting more irrelevant drivel. You’re probably best sticking with 1707 and all that

Like the Battle of May Island?

That was in the Firth of Forth. Try again.

Serious question.

I’m a Scot by ancestry – a bit of a mongrel truthfully, but a properly Glaswegian mother. As such I’m assuming that I’d be entitled to a Scottish passport – (not so) Wee Alex wouldn’t deny me my birthright, surely?

Given the above, why would I not be entitled to a vote?

And before anyone says: “because that’s what the rules say” – I can read, I get what the SNP are saying. But that doesn’t make it right.

On voting in the referendum – its very hard to see any mechanism that would be reasonable that would allow anyone but those normally resident in Scotland to vote ie those on the electoral roll.

On nationality its different. IIRC ” people with strong ties to Scotland” would be able to apply for nationality so yes you could be a scots national

its very hard to see any mechanism that would be reasonable that would allow anyone but those normally resident in Scotland to vote ie those on the electoral roll.

I see that but surely the whole of Corby will be allowed to vote?

Hang on – you’d let me have a passport but not let me vote?

So anyone resident in Scotland (could be any nationality – German, French, American – so long as they’re qualified to vote through residence) can vote on what happens to Scotland, but Scots in the rest of the UK can’t?

Right-o. Makes total sense.

Will Sean Connery be aloud to vote?

Will Sean Connery be aloud to vote?

No. He’ll have to vote silently, same as everyone else.

Does he normally vote quietly then? 😉

(edit – cross post sorry!)

Incidentally, where did the Navy keep it’s Grand Fleet during these wars?
Do you think it might have been in England’s interest to keep the eastern seaways open?

It was in the UK’s interest to keep the North Sea open. It was in the UK’s interest to put a naval base where it could defend itself against Germany.

That was in the Firth of Forth. Try again.

Really, |I thought you were looking for examples of how our poor, helpless little nation was defended by the mighty English fleet. can you let me know then, which of these naval actions related to an imminent invasion of Scotland,rather than to access to the seaways to allow the greater battle to take place in the North Atlantic?
Actually mint choc chip’s maybe better, providing they don’t overdo the mint.

So anyone resident in Scotland (could be any nationality – German, French, American – so long as they’re qualified to vote through residence) can vote on what happens to Scotland, but Scots in the rest of the UK can’t?

That’s right, some foreign nationals will be allowed the vote but Scots that have already decided to do a runner are excluded – after all they may be biased

You do also know that the aim of naval action during these wars was to maintain a blockade on Germany maintaining an offensive position rather than a defensive “protect the homeland” one?

You don’t think that attempting to defeat Germany was a good way of protecting the UK? Interesting.

Really, |I thought you were looking for examples of how our poor, helpless little nation was defended by the mighty English fleet.

You thought wrong. Just as you thought wrong that there had been no great amount of naval activity in the north sea.

That’s right, some foreign nationals will be allowed the vote but Scots that have already decided to do a runner are excluded – after all they may be biased

As I say, if you’re prepared to give me a passport (and you’d have to, regardless of where I live), then why not let me vote?

I totally get the point that you’re then opening it up to a load of other people, who’d have to prove that they were entitled through birthright to express their opinion, but legally I’m more of a Scot than TJ, and if he’s having a vote, sod it, I want mine!

Errrmmmm – you are confusing the “Scots people” with the “people of Scotland”. In what way are you legally a scot and I am not?

I think having voting eligibility decided through the electoral roll has been taken because its the only way of doing it, no? I reckon big Eck would be happy for a load of Scots to vote, but there’s no way CmD would allow it,

It was in the UK’s interest to put a naval base where it could defend itself against Germany.

ok, back to the not really relevant – your point seems to have been that poor defenceless little Scotland couldn’t have defended itself with the English navy (because the wars were going sooooo well before America joined in). Therefore naval battles were more about defending the seaways and keeping them open, not about defending the country from imminent invasion. Had scotland been independant, these batles would still have been fought.

I am interested in this concept of an English navy. when was there an English navy defending Scotland?

Just as you thought wrong that there had been no great amount of naval activity in the north sea.

And where did I say that? Not only irrelevant, now reduced to making stuff up.
Still please do provide an example of a battle fending off the invasion of Scotland.

TJ – you moved there in your teens and have English parents, correct? Makes you an immigrant, if my facts are correct.

I didn’t say you weren’t legally a Scot (clue: read what people say, now what you think they say), just that I’m probably more of one, having a Scottish parent.

And anyway, who’s the almighty authority stating that the right electorate is the “people of Scotland” and not the diaspora you describe as the “Scots people”?

[edited for accuracy]

I am interested in this concept of an English navy. when was there an English navy defending Scotland?

since about 10 minutes when ransos decided to make one up.
not only that but, apparently there were battles fought to defend Scotland from invasion, although I’m still waiting to find out more about this.

Errrmmmm – you are confusing the “Scots people” with the “people of Scotland

that’s not what the fat fella said

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16478121

Eh?

the “scots people” are the ethnic scots wherever they live. The “people of Scotland” are those who live here and / or who have strong ties to the country.

Eh?

He said [on the VT] that the Scottish people should decide.

who have strong ties to the country.

So having a Scottish parent doesn’t count as a strong tie? Really?

I’ve got a yellow tartan tie.
Does that count?