Salmond on Newsnight

Points and laughs at ransos.

I realise that it’s an unpalatable truth.

For the purpose of international conventions, England and Scotland are not separate countries. For example, Scotland cannot join the UN.

And neither can England.

Just remember that in addition to England, Scotland would also be saying goodbye to Wales and NI. Therefore when talking about Independence, remember that it is not Independence from England.

Just had a quick read through the consultation document. Think I might write back and add in my 2p worth (how much will that be in groats? Is is it centi-groats?)

ransos does it really matter why the act of the union was signed, other than your petty attempt at point scoring?

Why are all you Englanders so scared of Scotland going it alone.?

Very strange if you ask me.

Ransos – there may well have been financial mismanagement but there was certainly some degree of Scotland getting caught between England and Spain – arguably two of the superpowers of the day.

Note also that immediately following the union and the access to English capital that it brought Scotland’s economy started growing – to the extent that it was the second biggest in the world within 30 years (and you can guess that England’s was the biggest).

Personal view is that both Scotland and England have benefited immensely from the union, but are still different countries with seperate legal and educational systems.

I don’t support the break up of this partnership, but if one partner feels the relationship isn’t working any more then I do support their right to leave.

And neither can England.

Just remember that in addition to England, Scotland would also be saying goodbye to Wales and NI. Therefore when talking about Independence, remember that it is not Independence from England.

Which is why I said “England and Scotland are not separate countries”.

ransos does it really matter why the act of the union was signed, other than your petty attempt at point scoring?

Because some people argue that Scotland was forced into the union against its will. Because England bailed Scotland out, something pro-independence people like to forget when they’re talking about oil reserves.

Ransos – there may well have been financial mismanagement but there was certainly some degree of Scotland getting caught between England and Spain – arguably two of the superpowers of the day.

That’s quite an understatement: it’s estimated that Scotland lost around 1/5 of its entire wealth on the Darien scheme.

It was over 300 years ago. I thought the English press still bleating on about 1966 was bad, but this is worse.

Ransos – because of the separate legal system in Scotland when the north sea oil fields were starting to be developed they were split into Scottish, English and Norwegian territory.

The English and Scottish boundaries were changed in 1991 and are therefore not the same any more it isn’t simply a 55° Latitude now
Donald Dewar agreed the change with Blair at the time

Looking at election results, it is pretty obvious that England, Wales, Scotland and NI don’t have a huge amount in common. The scots, NI and welsh are consistently campaigning for devolution of differing levels. In short, it doesn’t seem to be a happy marriage. If independence is on the agenda, could we not just absolve the union entirely?
Could England absolve the union should they choose to?
How’s about we all just go it alone?

Why are all you Englanders so scared of Scotland going it alone.?

Very strange if you ask me.

Currently polling suggests that Englanders are more keen on Scotland going it alone than Scotlanders are.

Why are all you Englanders so scared of Scotland going it alone.?

Very strange if you ask me.

I’m scared of Scotland taking a disproportionately high percentage of the UK’s assets, and a disproportionately low percentage of its liabilities.

What’s strange about that?

Ransos – correct, the Darien scheme. Actually the Scots and English monarch failed to support the Scots because it got in the way of some English deals being done with Spain and a compensatory deal whereby parliments were unified and Scots losses caused by English actions were made good.

Both sides benefitted.

ah so its about money not democracy or principles

Because some people argue that Scotland was forced into the union against its will. Because England bailed Scotland out, something pro-independence people like to forget when they’re talking about oil reserves.

What bearing on oil wealth do the actions of a government over 300 years ago have today?

Or are you saying that Scots are incapable of managing themselves economically on a genetic level?

It was over 300 years ago. I thought the English press still bleating on about 1966 was bad, but this is worse.

You don’t think that the terms of the Act of Union are pertinent? Curious…

Because England bailed Scotland out,

Over 300 years ago, got anything more current? What about where Thatcher’s economic disasters would have left England without Scottish oil money to bail it out.

What bearing on oil wealth do the actions of a government over 300 years ago have today?

Or are you saying that Scots are incapable of managing themselves economically on a genetic level?

Basically, this ^

Still it must be hard, watchng the remnants of England’s once-great empire sailing off into the sunset and all you can do is keep whinging onabout what happened before your great great great great great great gandparernts were even conceived off.

Over 300 years ago, got anything more current? What about where Thatcher’s economic disasters would have left the UK England without UK Scottish oil money to bail it out.

FTFY.

I’m scared of Scotland taking a disproportionately high percentage of the UK’s assets, and a disproportionately low percentage of its liabilities.

don’t know why you are.

Its all been said quite clearly assets and liabilities should be split on the basis of population or gdp – both similar at around 8% for Scotland.

You don’t think that the terms of the Act of Union are pertinent? Curious…

OK, can you explain, preferably using small words because I’m a bit thick, what relevance it has today?

A federal Britain – ie devolution for England – with a British parliment at Westminster and an English one at say York (or vice versa) – is not a daft suggestion.

The United Kingdoms rather than the United Kingdom if you will. I’ll even offer W&NI kingdom status.

Ransos – correct, the Darien scheme. Actually the Scots and English monarch failed to support the Scots because it got in the way of some English deals being done with Spain and a compensatory deal whereby parliments were unified and Scots losses caused by English actions were made good.

Both sides benefitted

Scotland raised enough money for the Darien scheme – the problem was that it spent it badly. Why the monarch didn’t support it is simple: he didn’t want war between England and Spain.

OK, can you explain, preferably using small words because I’m a bit thick, what relevance it has today?

this

watching the remnants of England’s once-great empire sailing off into the sunset and all you can do is keep whinging onabout what happened before your great great great great great great gandparernts were even conceived off.

It’s hard to accept when someone says they’re leaving because they’ll be better off without you, and the best abnswer you have is hundreds of years ago that wasn’t the case. Especially after pissing the wealth you should have had against the wall.

OK, can you explain, preferably using small words because I’m a bit thick, what relevance it has today?

In case you hadn’t noticed, it’s the reason why England and Scotland are both part of the UK.

don’t know why you are.

Its all been said quite clearly assets and liabilities should be split on the basis of population or gdp – both similar at around 8% for Scotland.

It’s not really that simple though. What about assets and liabilities that are based in only one of the countries?

In case you hadn’t noticed, it’s the reason why England and Scotland are both part of the UK.

And how we got into the Union is relevant how? You’ve still not answered the question.

Or are you saying that Scots are incapable of managing themselves economically on a genetic level?

I hear they’re generally quite careful with their money these days….

In case you hadn’t noticed, it’s the reason why England and Scotland are both part of the UK.

OK, words aren’t working for me. To me it doesn’t even look like you’re answering the question I asked. Can you draw me a picture?

And how we got into the Union is relevant how? You’ve still not answered the question.

Of course it’s relevant: when considering dissolving the union, it’s reasonable to look at why it was created in the first place, and the benefits and disbenefits of having continued it to the present day.

This issue of ‘scottish’ oil…

How can waters.. protected from the clutches of other predatory countries throughout history by the might of a primarily English navy suddenly only belong to the Scots?

I’d hazzard a guess that without the protection offered by the English navy over the years that there would be no ‘scottish’ waters, much less any ‘Scottish’ oil.

You’ve still not answered the question.

I’d advise against holding your breath whilst waiting for the answer. the boy’ll just repeating the same suff over and over and over and over.
As for myself, I like vanilla ice cream with chocolate chips. Which is about as relevant

OK, words aren’t working for me. To me it doesn’t even look like you’re answering the question I asked. Can you draw me a picture?

You asked me why the Act of Union was relevant. I’ve told you. If you still don’t get it, I can’t help you further.

I don’t see why the rest of the UK should have to put up living a lot longer than the Scots and therefore paying more taxes

If the union splits, they should be made to stop dying so bloody early, it’s not fair

Will Salmond give the British areas (as opposed to Anglo Saxon areas) of England the opportunity to join Scotland in recognition of their shared heritage?

And will someone please stop to consider Berwick?

Ok I’m probably into trolling territory now – or close anyway.

How can waters.. protected from the clutches of other predatory countries throughout history by the might of a primarily English navy suddenly only belong to the Scots?

I didn’t realise a lot of sea battles had been fought in the North Sea. Which nations did the ‘English’ navy protect us Scots from.