Salmond on Newsnight

possibly igm, but then as binners correctly points out the remainder of the UK could tell them to shove their EU membership up their arse which would not be acceptable to brussels as we are (and would still be) a net contributor.

A fair answer.

Oh… and any new entrants to the EU are constitutionaly required to adapt the Euro. We wouldn’t have that. Ever!

Its not quite that simple though. It only applies in certain situations and at least one Law Professor has said it wouldnt effect the UK or Scotland.

igm – Member

Would England, Wales and Northern Ireland (whatever that country might be called if Salmond wins the vote) have to reapply for EU membership, would they, and would the rest of the EU let them in?

Its an interesting question and opinion is divided even amongst folk who should know the bbc did a good summary of the debate which I cannot find now. Its unclear. there are three possibilities and expert opinion is divided

Scotland and the rump UK both remain EU members, Both need to reapply and Only Scotland would need to reapply

Myself I favour the position that there is no more UK and both resultant states are new and would need to reapply and would be treated equally

both resultant states are new and would need to reapply and would be treated equally

We both know that wouldn’t be the case. Being a very large contributor to the EU, the rUK would be far more appealing than a brand new economy. They would also try and stitch scotland right up to serve their needs. The scots would need to be very weary of the EU terms.

Oh, and what is a person with scottish nationality?

Myself I favour the position that there is no more UK and both resultant states are new and would need to reapply and would be treated equally

Not so sure on that. No matter how much France and Germany may want to stick it to us thanks to CMD’s recent antics, there’s no getting away from the economics:

1) A small country of 5m reliant mainly on a fast-dwindling resource of oil which would almost certainly be a net receiver from the EU,

vs

2) The remaining 55m British citizens, who will remain net contributors to the EU.

In case you’d not noticed, the EU isn’t exactly flush with cash right now – I suspect that they’d be favourable towards a contributor more than a receiver.

Oh, and what is a person with scottish nationality?

Anyone who either lives in Scotland for over a certain time or who has family ties here, parents, grand parents? Just a guess… Does it matter?

Does it matter?

Yes – even if its just in the case of wanting equal access to all so that they can benefit from the superior structure of Scottish university education.

Anyone who either lives in Scotland for over a certain time or who has family ties here, parents, grand parents? Just a guess… Does it matter?

Kind of makes you wonder what the point is at all. I’d be willing to bet that a large proportion of the UK’s populace would qualify through a grandparent or similar. So independent from who, precisely?

Myself I favour the position that there is no more UK and both resultant states are new and would need to reapply and would be treated equally

You negotiate from a position of strength TJ. The Eu needs the rump UK more than we need them, right now

Does the EU want another small economy with some extremely dubious economic policies? One with an above average reliance on its financial sector and some pretty heavy duty welfare comitments? Hmmmmmmmm….. I wonder

But in an independent Scotland, rUK students would be allowed in for free unless that loop hole is closed.

It must be based on where you live and/or you’re family heritage.

Edit:

So independent from who, precisely?

Westminster.

I’d be willing to bet that a large proportion of the UK’s populace would qualify through a grandparent or similar

Yep. I do 😀
How do I make sure I get my vote?

Westminster.

little scotlanders eh?

Independence from Westminster at the expense of ceding powers to Brussels? Right….

little scotlanders eh?

Yawn 😆

Scotland would be a net contributor to the EU

Scotland holds most of the EUs energy sources and fishing grounds and would be an engaged and positive partner in the EU.

I think that the EU would be likely to look favourably on Scottish membership.

I believe both successor nations would be in the same position but as you can take three real experts on the issue and get 3 differnt answers its a tricky one.

Serious question now Uncle Jezza. Would you get a vote?

What are the criteria?

In a bizarre case of STW mirroring real life….. all of the above not answered here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16636325

‘….will someone think of the Panda’s….’ 😉

Scotland holds most of the EUs energy sources and fishing grounds and would be an engaged and positive partner in the EU.

Doubtful on the former, and as for the latter, I guess you’ve not seen where the Spanish et al fish, regardless of sovereignty…

binners – Member
Serious question now Uncle Jezza. Would you get a vote?

What are the criteria?In the referendum? It’ll be the electoral roll – as used in the Scottish Parliament elections.

Anyone who either lives in Scotland for over a certain time or who has family ties here, parents, grand parents? Just a guess… Does it matter?

Interesting bit in on the BBC web site about the views of US citizens with “Scottish roots” on this –

25m Americans claim Scottish ancestry, according to some estimates

That might skew the vote a bit.

Also some interesting bits on there about the possible makeup of governments in Scotland; oh how I would laugh if an independent Scotland ended up with a right wing government instead of Salmonds “progressive” state.

The Scots already have a very nice slice of the welfare system, with a much better deal than the English get.

Personally I couldn’t care less if they have their independence, but I do worry what it may cost us later picking up the pieces of this egotistical madness.

I do worry what it may cost us later picking up the pieces of this egotistical madness.

Why? It’ll be up to the EU to sort it out (if it ever happens, obv).
They’ve done a fine job with Greece etc.

binners – Member

Serious question now Uncle Jezza. Would you get a vote?

What are the criteria?

As I have a vote in Scotland now yes I would

The Scots already have a very nice slice of the welfare system, with a much better deal than the English get.

If you’re going to resent the NHS and welfare benefits we get in Scotland, dont resent us, resent the fact you didn’t vote for a party that would give you them.

Its not Scotland fault that we get free uni education yet the English have to pay £9000 a year, that was CmD and his cronies who brought that in, and we certainly didnt vote for him.

oh how I would laugh if an independent Scotland ended up with a right wing government instead of Salmonds “progressive” state.

seems pretty unlikely given the voting patterns in Scotland for the last 50 years

Scotland holds most of the EUs energy sources and fishing grounds and would be an engaged and positive partner in the EU.

So what happens when Abu-DabiShetland decides it would rather be independant seeing as you’ve decided the oil’s being divided up geographicaly rather than demographicaly?

Would the same rules apply?

Its a bit of a non argument seeing as they’ve not expressed any desire to separate, and we went over this last time, but yes, the same rules would apply. 🙄

seems pretty unlikely given the voting patterns in Scotland for the last 50 years

Draw up a list of small oil rich countries that have left wing governments?

Personally I couldn’t care less if they have their independence, but I do worry what it may cost us later picking up the pieces of this egotistical madness.

My position exactly! Salmonds economic policies are insane, cloud-cuckoo-land stuff. Totally and utterly unsustainable in the medium to long term. I suspect he’d be coming cap-in-hand, effectively bankrupt, in a few years.

Either direct to Westminster, or through the EU to save a bit of face. The result would be the same. Us picking up the tab for Salmonds ego-fuelled flights of fancy

Draw up a list of small oil rich countries that have left wing governments?

That’s an interesting point. Mark Thatcher and his friends, as you read this, could be tooling up for a military coup 😆

That’s an interesting point. Mark Thatcher and his friends, as you read this, could be tooling up for a military coup

Not really much to worry about though is it?
A couple of Glaswegian taxi drivers would take care of them.

Draw up a list of small oil rich countries that have left wing governments?

Norway.

Probably the closest country to Scotland socially and politically as well.

If you’re going to resent the NHS and welfare benefits we get in Scotland, dont resent us, resent the fact you didn’t vote for a party that would give you them.

Its not Scotland fault that we get free uni education yet the English have to pay £9000 a year, that was CmD and his cronies who brought that in, and we certainly didnt vote for him.

When the egotistical experiment goes t1ts up (as it surely will, for the current levels of benefits scots receive have been shown to be totally unsustainable in the long term), you’ll have the benefit of Greek/Italian style imposition of eurocrats who will impose a standard of state benefit way below that even the underdog English currently receive.

enjoy..

, for the current levels of benefits scots receive have been shown to be totally unsustainable in the long term),

Proof?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/2011/12/05/price-of-independence-poll-shows-majority-of-scots-would-back-split-if-it-made-them-500-better-off-86908-23611253/

The Scottish Social Attitudes survey found that 65 per cent of Scots would back independence if it meant that they would be slightly wealthier.

Proof?

Just about every independent study on the economic situation in scotland.

The most recent I’m aware of by the CPPR

‘Latest analysis by the Centre for Public Policy and Regions said Scotland would face a budget deficit of about £17 billion per year and inherit a £125 billion share of the UK’s national debt.’

thisisnotaspoon – Member

seems pretty unlikely given the voting patterns in Scotland for the last 50 years

Draw up a list of small oil rich countries that have left wing governments?

Draw up list of small oil producing countries that are not in the gulf.
Norway,Scotland.

Draw up a small list of oil producing countries that are not in the gulf and dont have right wing governments.
Norway, Scotland.
Easy.

seems pretty unlikely given the voting patterns in Scotland for the last 50 years

The SNP have had an increasing proportion of the vote since 1970 when they overtook the liberals. I would suggest that a significant part of their support is from people who support Scottish independence and have voted accordingly. If that issue is out of the way the political landscape changes and other parties’ negative associations with the Westminster parties are lost; I wouldn’t like to bet on what happens after that.

Interesting interview last night but not particuarly useful to inform and it got bogged down with unnessecary detail (transporting gold FFS!).

I guess from a rUK (un-united kingdom?) point of view there are few downsides economically – loss of some oil and renewable revenues, plus costs that we’d have to bear to reorganise joint services. On the postive ecenomics side? I beleive that the gov payout to the scotish gov is above the 8% of their percentage of the population. The main negative I have is that without scottish labour MPs we’ll become almost a one party state in the UK.

From a Scottish point of view there are many more possible economic risks, plus practical problems (re-organisation)and just it being harder to be a small country in the global ecomomy (eg. what if the scottish curency devalues for some reason or scottish government bonds have higher interest). Although self determination is right people should have.

I’m Scottish but live in Cumbria so I understand the deep rooted national pride that Scots have. I do really worry about the viability of a freestanding nation. Alex Salmond has frequently quoted Denmark as the example of what a population of 5m can do.

I work for a Danish company and they come from a recent position as an industrial and economic powerhouse with income coming from all over the world (a scenario that will be impossible for a developed nation to produce in the medium term). Alex has also failed to state that the Dane’s pay 50% income tax and a Ford Focus costs about 35k with taxes. You need to pay an awful lot of tax to maintain a NHS style infrastructure with only 5m inhabitants.