Safest family car. Cheap (therefore old)

Molgrips is it nothing to do with speed limits. Seat belts. Better training ? Figures can be manipulated to say what ever the writer wants. Im talking from my experience having attended many many car crashes. Airbags have made big impact but everyone has them these days. But other than that not a great deal its luck of the draw it seems

Ive been to a little clio rolled many times down the motorway and hit by alsorts driver got himself out on the other hand been to a big flash honda got clipped and went into a hedge all 4 occupants were dead

If your numbers up its up

“That’s why road deaths have been falling for years despite lots more traffic. “

you dont seethe correlation between more traffic = slower speeds = less chance of death ? i notice the difference even in the 10 years ive been driving.

used to be able to drive everywhere at the speed limit – now even outside of peak times you be lucky to do 50 on a NSL single carridgeway due to traffic.

MY EXPERIENCE- The safest car for me is the one where I have great steering-feel, can feel where a wheel is slipping/losing grip, can catch and recover loss of grip and can pin-point each corner/place exactly and know how it will react.

Sounds like theres a problem with the nut that holds the steering wheel

Lol @ hora. Cos all accidents are caused when we are pushing the limits of grip and need steering feedback.. you tool

(Sorry I’m not going to get into childishness)

Being involved in a RTC can involve either the other parties fault, your fault or a combination of the two.

With that in mind you can ensure that you feel confident and comfortable with the car that you are driving, its in good mechanical condition with matching tyres and well serviced/inspected regularly.

i.e. you do everything you can to ensure that you are a safe driver and not a risk to yourself or others.

I’ve driven cars where I’ve really not felt comfortable or confident with. I’m sure us aggressive driving God males can at least admit to this last line.

Being involved in a RTC

Yes.. but this thread isn’t about being involved in a crash, it’s about what happens to you IF a crash actually happens.

you dont seethe correlation between more traffic = slower speeds = less chance of death ?

Yes, but what about more miles = more chance of death? This isn’t my own conclusion, btw – this is widely discussed.

Are you saying car safety features have no effect?

OP: I’d be looking at a post 2000 volvo V70 (if you wanted an estate).

I think it says somwhere on the NCAP website that the difference between a 1 star and a 5 star equates to about a 30% lower chance of fatality (or possibly killed/seriously injured occupants).

Now I’m not saying I’d like to find myself or (more so) my children in the 30% if I had a one star car, but it might be more worthwhile just thinking about your driving (yes sometimes someone else causes a totally unavoidable accident accident and you have no control, but this is rare) and possibly taking extra training, which I imagine would be more effective. Or do both of course.

Big old Saab 9-5 would fit your wishes though. Go for it, you know you want to.

*Anecdotal*
Someone I knew was driving a mk1 Mini many years ago and drove under an articulated lorry.

The car was found down the road with the roof ripped off and the driver in the footwell of the back seat. Fortunately for him he wasn’t wearing a seatbelt or he’d have probably had his head ripped off. As it was he was pretty much uninjured (until he got home and his dad got hold of him).

So it goes to show- if he was driving a modern and much bigger (even ‘small’ modern cars are huge compared to old Minis) the outcome could have been much more serious as he’d have driven into it rather than under…

Irc ive cut up many cars over the years and removed many casualties and a lot of fatals. The car really doesn’t seem to make much of a difference in all honesty

So a head on crash between a mini and a mondeo would not be safer for the Mondeo occupants?

These are American stats but the laws of physics are the same here.

Crash statistics confirm this. The death rate in 1-3-year-old minicars in multiple-vehicle crashes during 2007 was almost twice as high as the rate in very large cars.

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/news/desktopnews/new-crash-tests-demonstrate-the-influence-of-vehicle-size-and-weight-on-safety-in-crashes-results-are-relevant-to-fuel-economy-policies

If a crash actually happens it depends where the other car hits, at what point, at the engine block? Offset? towards the wheel arch? Door? rear? etc etc etc etc. It also depends what else you hit after being hit. Airbag fires, deflates then you hit something else.

You CANT control external forces or people or events or outcome. All modern cars are much for much. Its only if you bought a Chinese market car you should overly focus on the car you actually buy.

[delete] loads of stuff about hora [/delete]

Back on topic, I reckon a <10 yr old petrol 1.8 avensis may fit the bill. It was, apparently, an extremely safe car at the time – best in class from 03-08. Dull but safe and predictable to drive. Monster reliability, modest performance, reasonable economy. A comfy place to be, too. They’re also extremely cheap 🙂

One drawback maybe getting flagged down by drunk strangers on a saturday night but as an ex-(real) taxi driver I can deal with that 😆

<10 yr old petrol 1.8 avensis may fit the bill. It was, apparently, an extremely safe car at the time – best in class from 03-08.

I think the early ones of those used a lot of oil. Just check before buying. Sorted on the later models if I remember correctly.

You CANT control external forces or people or events or outcome

Everything you say is obvious but also irrelevant to this discussion.

All modern cars are much for much.

Finally – yes, that’s what I’ve been saying all along.

These are American stats but the laws of physics are the same here.

The cars aren’t though.

All modern cars are much for much.

That’s not true. Even though there has been vast improvement across the board over the last 20 years, some cars are undeniably better than others in both passive and active safety. You do have control over what car you drive and a good choice here could make all the difference if the worst should happen.

I guess your point is that other factors – mainly how safely you drive – are more important. I would agree with that, but very few people change their driving style according to what car they drive. Some are naturally cautious, some are complete dicks behind the wheel.

So it goes to show- if he was driving a modern and much bigger (even ‘small’ modern cars are huge compared to old Minis) the outcome could have been much more serious as he’d have driven into it rather than under…

The original Mini was a well known death trap. Your mate was just extremely lucky. If you were to have a crash in a Mini, especially today up against a modern car, I wouldn’t fancy your chances of walking again or even breathing. Even in a pretty tame accident. Those things have virtually zero crash protection. Yes they may be very small, but in most cases that would be a disadvantage.

The original Mini was a well known death trap. Your mate was just extremely lucky.

Yeah, that was my point really, given that particular set of circumstances it turned out that the undeniably dangerous car was his saviour.

Irc ive cut up many cars over the years and removed many casualties and a lot of fatals. The car really doesn’t seem to make much of a difference in all honesty

Maybe you are just recalling the worst of the worst, where nothing would have made any difference. What about all those lesser (and much more common) accidents where people now tend to walk away, when 20 years ago they would have lost their legs or even lives in the same accident?

Big cars with a company based focus on safety (acknowledged industry leaders) I’d be looking at a Volvo V70 (as others have said) for that age/price.

Yeah, that was my point really, given that particular set of circumstances it turned out that the undeniably dangerous car was his saviour.

Doesn’t often work like that though does it? I know at least one Mini driver who wasn’t quite so lucky. I cringe whenever I see youngsters driving Mk1 Minis today. There’s no way any of my children will be driving cars like that when they pass their test.

2007 onward Mondeo would be a good choice too for £3K. Again large and 5 star rated. Earlier ones (2002) are 4 star, but still quite large. I think long Estates are better in a rearward shunt too, especially for the rear passengers.

[These are American stats but the laws of physics are the same here.

The cars aren’t though.]

75% of them are

Irc heres one then i went to small 2 door merc head on into honda accord estate. Merc had small amount of damage. And driver got out. Honda accord also looked ok but engine block had detached all occupants dead on scene bar the driver who died in the air ambulance

Merc was small honda was big both similar age?

Where does that fit into your stats?

I suggest a skills day driver training. It’s no accident I’ve had zero incidents in a car.

Doesn’t often work like that though does it?

No, see

Yeah, that was my point really, given that particular set of circumstances it turned out that the undeniably dangerous car was his saviour.

Latest revelations on the news today,who would have thunk it.

The Department of Transport has launched its latest THINK! campaign to highlight the dangers of country roads, as research shows 60% of fatalities occur on rural roads, with three people dying each day on average.

The DfT’s research on country roads finds that a shocking 25% of drivers report having had a near miss on a country road, while 40% have been surprised by an unexpected hazard, such as an animal. A third also confess to taking a bend too fast.

75% of them are

Where’d you get that figure from? Not borne out by my observations..

2007 onward Mondeo would be a good choice too for £3K.

looks a good bet but the ones in my price range have done starship miles mostly… Saab 93 v Avensis at the moment for me. Avensis seems the more practical choice!

Merc was small honda was big both similar age?

Where does that fit into your stats?

We know individual crashes are very unpredictable, but still doesn’t mean all cars are equal as you seem to be implying.

Think I give up on this thread. I’m sure the OP can decide for themselves whether or not there is a safer alternative to a Berlingo.

Avensis seems the more practical choice!

Yeah they seem cheap because people think they are dull, uninspiring, uninvolving or some such Top Gear shite when they are decent cruisers.

[75% of them are

Where’d you get that figure from? Not borne out by my observations.. ]

the majority of the cars identified in the article referenced are availible accross the globe eg toyota Yaris
+ I logging into the tolling cameras on a freeway that I operate in the US for 5 mins….
most cars in the US are based on globally shared platform or major components

No moshimonster they are far from equal and all are far from safe. A like for like car will not crash the same in any given circumstance. so like i said pick one that meets your needs and forget about the rest

the majority of the cars identified in the article referenced are availible accross the globe eg toyota Yaris

Yeah but what are the actual numbers of those cars in the US? The Yaris is available as the Echo in the US but you see very few.

There seem to be a lot sidebars to the OP’s original question?
I’m sure we can all find instances of RTC’s involving one make/type of car or another had a good or bad result for the occupants.
There are many reasons why the accident rates have fallen over the last few years, not just vehicle design, construction and dynamics.
I think the OP should have a look at different vehicles that fit his major criteria and make judgement from there.
We all want our loved ones to be as safe as possible if the worst should happen.

Avensis seems the more practical choice!

I had one of the Mk1 Avensis hatchbacks, it was big, comfy, econmical, reliable and dull as dishwater but very good at being a car.

Had a few other smaller and larger cars in between, now got an 08 plate Avensis estate, it’s also big, comfy, economical (enough), reliable and dull as dishwater (in 180bhp spec), but would happily recommend as a family car.

Think I give up on this thread. I’m sure the OP can decide for themselves whether or not there is a safer alternative to a Berlingo.

I think I give up on it too.

As a parting note, I’ve just done a quick lit review of NCAP and related safety standards in Pubmed. Scanning the abstracts, it seems that most measures of car safety predict outcomes in real world accidents, and the more serious the accident, the stronger this association becomes. In studies where the NCAP fail to predict safety (there’s a Spanish one form 2007) ‘mass ratio’ is a significant predictor (I can’t get the full text of that paper so can’t look at the methods, but apparently size outweighs NCAP in this sample – as NCAP themselves suggest can be possible).

It looks like the data from 1000s of real world accidents suggest that NCAP and other non-european metrics are not worthless, although obviously not a perfect indicator of safety given the complex nature of RTAs. This is one of the more recent studies . It’s a decent sample size of European cars:

The analysis sample contained 1526 fatal crashes, 13,972 fatal or severe injury outcome crashes, and 104,674 crashes with at least a minor injury outcome. There were 420 fatally crashes, 4236 fatally or severely injured crashes, and 33,754 minor injury crashes among the Euro NCAP scored vehicles.

The conclusion?

Good correlation was found between Euro NCAP test results and real-world injury outcomes

That’s good enough for me, I’m off to look for a post 2003 avensis…

Avoid the 1.8 petrol engine. Or google 1.8VVTI oil thirst. You’ll be using 1litre of oil per 600miles before long. The seller will tell you it doesn’t use a drop though.

ianpv – very useful, thanks!

Merc was small honda was big both similar age?

Where does that fit into your stats?

Well I put a car on its roof and slid along the road for 50M and walked away with only a couple of scratches from broken glass. I wasn’t wearing a seatbelt (pre-belt law) but I’m not suggesting one crash means everyone is better not wearing seat belts.

Bigger heavier cars are safer. But to put it in perspective if anyone does and significant time cycling on the road I wouldn’t worry about what car you drive. That isn’t where the vast majority of your risk is. All cars are pretty safe. If I was going to crash I’d rather have a big crumple zone around me than a small one and I’d rather be in the heavier vehicle in multi vehicle crashes – basic physics.

ianpv – seems like a good choice for the budget. Drive safe!

I said I was going, but… one more useful ref, from Folksam, a large insurance company who do a lot of real world safety research on specific cars (presumably to inform their premiums wrt personal injury, hence no agenda – other than profit). Lots of the academic research uses their data.

pdf report here for 395 cars up to 2009