Safest family car. Cheap (therefore old)

My workmate was in a berlingo and got hit at a gap in dual carriageway by a farmer. Flipped the car over the central reservation and rolled on other side to be hit by another car both he and the dog were shaken but uninjured

Ive been to a lot of crashes with work and the most solid isnt always the best. Its down to many factors. Sometimes a small flimsy feeling car will crumple and save occupants where a big on is solid and they die from internal injures

Id just get what car suits your needs and not worry too much. If they were that bad theyd be recalled

2008 or 2009 Mazda 6’s are available for £3000 with 5 Star rating.

The NCAP in depth results are different though so comparing a 2009 Mazda 6 with a 2007 Mondeo isn’t possible.

Don’t think about it too much. Any reasonably modern car should be OK.

Beware old cars are inherently unsafer due to corrosion, so you can’t extrapolate NCAP tests back to 10 year old cars driven on heavily salted roads. There are so many variables that the only real advice I’d give, is don’t go old if you want safe, but even that has caveats.

hora – re-read the OP and have a bit of sensitivity, eh?

I understand where you are coming from but the OP wants a safer car for himself. My point is use NCAP but don’t overly rely on it. Crashes can have different factors; cold, rain, visibility etc etc that cause accidents and multiple hits.

Personally I’d find a car that both OP and partner feel comfortable driving and more importantly feel confident driving from the off. For instance I can jump straight into an old Ford Focus and feel straight at home whereas I can get into a 2004 Toyota Yaris and feel uncomfortable with the steering feel etc etc. Theres one factor that you completely can’t control – other drivers. So theres no point worrying about it too much.

NCAP ratings should be taken with a pinch of salt- they simulate 30mph accidents in laboratory conditions.

They are designed to simulate real accidents much more than previous crash tests did. That’s why many cars scored poorly when they came out.

There is/was another agency that collects actual collision outcomes in the real world for different makes and models of cars, meaning they were collecting data that NCAP can’t – like how well a car behaves in in crash if its 5 or 10 years old rather than brand new (showing how wear, tear and corrosion decrease crash protection – illustrating maybe that airbags might not fire after sitting dormant for 15 years) , and also whether certain models end up in crashes more often because of handling or visibility issues. NCAP tests also tend to test and rate cars like for like but a 5 star rated supermini in a collision with a 5 star rated 4×4 aren’t going to get equal shares of the crash. But in the real world cars are having collisions with all sorts of other cars from all sorts of other eras.

As a for-instrance higher rated NCAP tested cars tend to have poor visibility because of thick pillars and high sides so potentially more likely to be in a crash even if they’re a safer place to be during that crash – this other agencies data would show if that model was in accidents more often – similarly NCAP can’t take account of the demographics of who buys and drives particular makes and models of cars and how crash-happy those drivers might be.

But ….. I can’t for the life of me remember what this other agency is/ was called. So you can ignore all that.

the police seemed pretty convinced that he survived as he was in an A6

Don’t read too much into that. He survived and he was fortunate to survive, but the police were just making polite conversation. The bobby on the beat isn’t in a position to make an objective meta analysis of crash types, circumstances and makes and models of cars or make recommendations that suggest they do. But they are able to find conversational ways of saying ‘you were lucky there mate’.

Don’t read too much into that. He survived and he was fortunate to survive, but the police were just making polite conversation. The bobby on the beat isn’t in a position to make an objective meta analysis of crash types, circumstances and makes and models of cars or make recommendations that suggest they do. But they are able to find conversational ways of saying ‘you were lucky there mate’.

Probably this.

Don’t read too much into that

You’re absolutely right there, it’s a good point.

But despite that, this is one of those things that has gone from ‘it’ll never happen to us’ to ‘it really has happened to someone we love”, and suddenly crash safety is looming far larger in our choice of vehicles than it has in the past (hence the berlingo!). NCAP seems a sensible place to start, but I’m sure there are other things to consider. Not least 5 star supermini v 5 star family car, as noted above.

Untitled

Leather, aircon, auto built like a brick shithouse, £1750.

A Volvo V70 is probably the answer. It’s 5* rated and pretty large plus Volvo do major on safety as one of their main selling points. Definitely be a step up on the Berlingo in crash safety. Unfortunately, it’s going to be a fairly ropey example for £3K!

built like a brick shithouse

You say that Kryton but the driver doesn’t fair well at all in the NCAP front impact test:

http://www.euroncap.com/tests/bmw_3_series_2001/98.aspx

and only 4 star overall if it’s >2001. Less if its pre 2001.

Not least 5 star supermini v 5 star family car, as noted above.

As you already suspect, with milage / economy not being a concern, for a fixed budget you’d possibly be better going a bit older and bigger over a bit newer and smaller. In two senses – one of being in a bigger, heavier box and being physically further from the corners of the car, but also because small economical cars hold their value better. You’d probably get a better car for your money by going big.

dooosuk – Member
built like a brick shithouse
You say that Kryton but the driver doesn’t fair well at all in the NCAP front impact test:

http://www.euroncap.com/tests/bmw_3_series_2001/98.aspx

and only 4 star overall if it’s >2001. Less if its pre 2001.

Its ’52. But anyway its still a lot of car for 2/3rds of the OP’s budget. 3 litre btw 😈

I suppose there’s also the primary/secondary safety thing to consider. My folks had a Volvo 240 back in the day, and although it was big and solid, with a reputation for being a safe car, it was quite scary to drive, and on occasion seemed more likely to contribute towards an accident than a more dynamic car.

That’s some frankly shocking lack of logic with regard to what an average tells you. You could spend half your miles crawling in traffic jams and the other half doing 70 and get to that, and never travel at 36 mph at all (apart from momentarily while you accelerate away from the traffic jam).

Or I could (as does happen) travel mainly in urban areas and very rarely use motorways.

It wasn’t logical of you to assume you knew where I drive. 😉

Logical choice is big, fairly new, high mileage and petrol.

but a 5 star rated supermini in a collision with a 5 star rated 4×4 aren’t going to get equal shares of the crash

Quite. Also, bear in mind there’s less of the supermini to hit, so those near misses if you were in a small car might’ve been hits in a big one. Also, is your swerve more likely to be effective if you are in a small nippy car? I think so but it’s unclear if this will make a meaningful difference.

From the horse’s (NCAP) mouth…
TLDR; a 5 star supermini is only 5 star if it hits another supermini….

Euro NCAP’s frontal impact test simulates a car crashing into another of similar mass and structure. In real life, when two cars collide the vehicle with the higher mass has an advantage over the lighter one. Generally speaking, vehicles with higher structures tend to fare better in accidents than those with lower structures. Therefore, ratings are comparable only between cars of similar mass and with broadly similar structures. Euro NCAP groups cars into the following structural categories: passenger car, MPV, off-roader, roadster and pickup. Within each of those categories, cars which are within 150kg of one another are considered comparable.

Its ’52. But anyway its still a lot of car for 2/3rds of the OP’s budget. 3 litre btw

I don’t doubt it. I’ve had two E46 330Ci Sports myself but they don’t meet the OPs safety requirements.

They’re also not that big, so depending how much space the kids need it may fail on that criteria as well.

In real life, when two cars collide the vehicle with the higher mass has an advantage over the lighter one.

Also bear in mind you don’t always hit another car…

Yeah, next time I have a crash, I’m gonna aim for pedestrians, I bet I’ll win then 👿

No need for an argument.

He does say ” or a saloon”. You’d be surprised at what I’ve fitted in that, and I have 2 kids. Notwithstanding there are many bigger and safer cars….

No need for an argument.

I’m not arguing, I’m merely engaging in a discussion as to why your suggestion doesn’t meet the requirements.

😀

Going back to your OP I had a 9-5 Aero Estate and still regret selling it 5 years on. Most comfortable car I’ve ever had by miles and sooo quick. 5 star rating to boot.

Loved that car…

Here’s a fully loaded Aero with the Dame Edna lights open to offers I expect

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201407115726700/sort/default/model/9-5/postcode/kt89lg/usedcars/radius/1500/page/3/make/saab/price-from/3000/price-to/4000/body-type/estate/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew?logcode=p

Edit: Can’t be bothered.

Volvo do major on safety as one of their main selling points

Its brilliant isn’t it – they don’t even need to pay for advertising, people just say these things for them. Volvo don’t make the safest cars, their rep for safety dates back to a time before NCAP when you could point to a square section tin bumper when everyone else had slim curved section bumpers and infer from that the whole car must be built like a tank. You need to look beyond manufacturers just sayin’ stuff. Certainly if you were looking at a 10 or 15 year old volvos plenty of their contemporaries were safer

By the same measure VWs certainly aren’t the most reliable cars and Duracell don’t make the longest lasting batteries – in fact Duracell don’t even make a battery at any price that outlasts a cheap ikea own-brand one.

another anecdote. My brother stacked his 2002 Volvo S60 – tyre blowout at speed on a corner, flipped over a hedge, rolled 4 or 5 times across a field, came to rest upside down. He opened the passenger door and crawled out. When the police came they took one look at the car and insisted on calling the ambulance, but he was fine, just a scratch from where his glasses broke.

(He went out and bought another S60).

Its brilliant isn’t it – they don’t even need to pay for advertising, people just say these things for them. Volvo don’t make the safest cars, their rep for safety dates back to a time before NCAP when you could point to a square section tin bumper when everyone else had slim curved section bumpers and infer from that the whole car must be built like a tank. You need to look beyond manufacturers just sayin’ stuff. Certainly if you were looking at a 10 or 15 year old volvos plenty of their contemporaries were safer

True, but still 5* rating for the V70, even the older version. V40 and V60 were both rated best in class too, so there is some truth to the marketing.

I have just bought a V70 D5.
53 plate 142K , £1400. Needed a full set of tyres but its pretty sound.
Weighs in at around 2 tons and has airbags galore. Cabin feels a safe place to be . A pillars are substantial and head movement is essential at junctions.
Not as big as the Passat it replaced , but if I was to have a head on I know where I would rather be , and its not german.
Steering feel is great , but turning circle is an issue ( think van , not car )
Just done a 200 mile brim to brim eco test and wrung 60.4mpg out of it, driving Miss Daisy in full eco mode.
HiD headlamps are awesome on dark wet mornings too

Mr PV…long time no chat!

I had a Berlingo…was excellent when I rolled it several times down a very steep hill…the people space was all sound but the rest of it was all bashed, dented and squashed. Don’t write it off as it seems to be well made for protecting the people space.

The crash wasn’t the same as another vehicle colliding but I skelped enough trees and ground to show it was well supported where it was needing to be.

Get another 900 turbo…let the 5 second delay and then turbo speed get you out of trouble! 😉

Is that Beemer the one that rips the drivetrain out the car due to power/torque?

To OP

I understand how you feel, we were involved in a fatal (for the other party) crash (other party at fault and could not be avoided by us). Just around the corner from our own home, in a 30mph zone (doing 25mph) in the city we got hit nearly head on by a car coming the other way (from around a blind corner) at between 60-80mph. Other driver (drunk, no licence) lost control when they clipped the curb and died at the scene. Husband in a wheel chair for 3 months, but myself and 18mth and 3 YO sons walked away. The large car (Vauxhall omega) and the kids correctly fitted car seats saved our lives. My previous car was a 1986 Renault 5!! We would have been toast in that.

Can’t stress the importance of correctly fitted, good quality car seats enough, your current seats may not be a good fit in a new car.

If children are under 4, check this out:

http://www.rearfacing.co.uk

Rear facing car seats for kids up to 4 YO, 5 x safer! You only get one chance to get it right…..

Simone

Ha! Hi Richard – I remember your accident. Why does everyone with a berlingo story involve it rolling down hills, through fields, or along motorways?! I’d rather the thing stayed rubber side down to begin with 😉

I reckon we may end up with a saab 93 or even a mondeo. My old independent saab guy will probably be able to source me a decent one. You don’t seem to get much A4 or passat for the money. The berlingo doesn’t inspire confidence to be honest. Awesome for general practicality and tip runs, however! And the sliding doors are brilliant.

I used to love the comedy turbo lag on my old 1982 8V 900. I remember ‘enjoying’ that car across rannoch moor and on the A835 inverness-ullapool rd. But I was young and reckless then. Now I’m just worried that someone who is still young and reckless may cross paths with me 😐

Given the choice between a crash in an A6 or a small flimsy super mini I would take the A6 of similar vintage any day.

But size /mass is not always a bonus , big 4x 4 crew cab pick ups look horrific in the tests

The Mondeo or Saab looks like a good choice. All else equal big cars are safer than small ones.

This video explains why and has good footage of big V small car crash tests.

Last time I looked there was no correlation between occupant fatality and vehicle size either way. So whatever advantages conferred by large size were cancelled out by the disadvantages.

Saabs are great apart from running costs my last one was doing 18mpg:(

How much is the berlingo going for 😉

I’d recommend having a look at the insurance institute for highway safety reports, which has specific cars / driver fatality rates.
it’s US based but highlights that there are benefits to size and that big suv’s tend to roll etc is an outmoded view as designs have evolved significantly

Irc ive cut up many cars over the years and removed many casualties and a lot of fatals. The car really doesn’t seem to make much of a difference in all honesty

^^^This^^^
Most modern cars are well designed but in a big accident you’re in the lap of the gods.
Primary safety is more important – try and avoid the accident in the first place, or at least shed as much speed as you can.
So – good quality tyres with plenty of tread and well serviced brakes are more likely to save you than an encap rating.
Consider advanced driving courses as well, no matter how long you’ve been driving you’ll learn loads.

MY EXPERIENCE- The safest car for me is the one where I have great steering-feel, can feel where a wheel is slipping/losing grip, can catch and recover loss of grip and can pin-point each corner/place exactly and know how it will react.

For me- No over-damped VW and most Toyota’s and Honda’s are outside of this.

You can’t control what other drivers do. Only what you do. Buy the car to your needs OP- space you need, uses and on test drive one- no point buying a 10yr old car if you’ve no idea how it feels/if you feel confident. You can’t control any other factor(s) in life.

Lol @ hora. Cos all accidents are caused when we are pushing the limits of grip and need steering feedback.. you tool 🙄

try and avoid the accident in the first place

Wow really? I’d honestly never thought of that!

The car does make a difference. That’s why road deaths have been falling for years despite lots more traffic. However, most modern cars are good, so the best thing you can do after the blatantly obvious ie not crash (thanks for that) is buy a modern car that’s looked after.