[Closed] Sacking rubbish teachers

Kindles

Freshly qualified Teachers who just need a chance to prove themselves...

(my bro-in-law falls under this category - impossible to find a teaching post thanks to 'lack of experience')

really what subject?
Fact is NQT's are often rubbish too...

Most teachers are rubbish. That's why they become teachers.

Those that can, do, those that can't.....

Pfft! Everyone knows that [b]nobody[/b] who works in the public sector has ever been sacked. [b]Ever![/b]

I read that in the Daily Mail. It was next to the article about tube drivers demanding swimming pools made out of hollowed out, gold-plated Faberge pineapples, and being payed in still-beating human hearts

Something tells me the OP is worrying about something he needs to worry about

Most people would get sacked for not doing a good job. Why should teachers be any different?

people who are able and wiling to educate, inspire, motivate and discipline perhaps?

they do exist you know!

other teachers like in other jobs

It is nigh on impossible to sack a teacher as they can be sacked for health or competency and you can only do one at once

go off sick when they do competency with say stress and return when they do a health one and repeat for years and years and years
It is rare but it does happen.
We need a decent way of getting rid of poor teachers as we have all seen them and dealt with them

This why Academy and Free schools are so important. Let the head teacher hire and fire like any other walk of life.

Great but what do we replace them with?

Children effectively only get one chance of an education, they should get the best that the school (or you) are able to offer.
I didn't like my French teacher at school so I ditched it as a subject. Uninspiring teachers have a huge effect on kids and should be removed to give others a chance.
I can also see how teachnig th same stuff year in year out can get stale and boring, which probably leads to a lack of motivation.

no acadmey schools are shit as they can opt out the national curriculum and wags structures and by getting pupils from other schools they also reduce the money in other schools

In my town we have one proposed yet all the 5 [ we have a RC and a C of E so all bases covered] schools are rated as outstanding by OFSTED...academy schools is about a BS tory agenda of choice in everything like it is always great FFS i allready have the choice of 5 schools why do i need one more?

We don't need to replace them. Raising the retirement age means that there are more teachers around.

Ofsted says that teaching is unsatisfactory in around 3% of schools. If we assume that there some crap teachers scattered around the other schools, this matches the 4% that Chris Woodhead used to quote. That's not many, really.

Fact is NQT's are often rubbish too.

True; I was. In fact, I should never have been allowed to complete my NQT year, but I was. I then did less than a term in my second year, before walking out and quitting. That's why so few crap teachers appear on the statistics as being fired: it's almost impossible to stay in the job long enough to get to incompetency proceedings if you're no good.

(In case any of my students read this: I should point out that this was in a really tough primary, where I'd replaced the previous NQT who'd also walked out (he'd gone into teaching from the police and did brilliantly in his next school).)

Most people would get sacked for not doing a good job. Why should teachers be any different?

Yep.

Pretty much any other business operates some kind of performance management process.

By all means, provide the necessary support and training to help teachers reach their potential (of course, 'good' and 'bad' teachers can all benefit from this - they should be continually striving to improve).

But, if after that they're still not performing to an acceptable level then they're clearly in the wrong profession.

I didn't like my French teacher at school so I ditched it as a subject. Uninspiring teachers have a huge effect on kids and should be removed to give others a chance.

THIS x1000

I found English a deeply uninteresting and uninspiring topic. I could spell, construct sentences with correct grammar, and liked reading what I wanted to read. Being forced to read stale texts and Shakespeare, then eulogise over them in an exam wasn't my idea of fun. Lacking a creative bone in my body, the creative writing part wasn't my strong point either.

Thankfully, for my GCSE years, I had a teacher who was probably the most inspiring teacher in the school. He's probably more responsible for my career success than any of the subject-specific teachers I was taught by; mainly because if you fail in English, you don't get the chance to go to 6th Form etc...

So, do we keep a supply of good teachers unemployed to replace any possible sackings?
Or do we replace the sacked ones with other sacked ones who are not working?
Or do we allow schools to poach sought after good teachers midway through the school year, from rival schools, therefore hopefully improving their results at the cost of the rival (and the respective schoolchildren) and leapfrogging them on the all important league tables?
Maybe we could have a January transfer window ,ala football, were richer Arab sponsored schools could buy the star players from the less well supported(financially) mid-table schools to enable that final push for the all important results in May.

Despite me always looking for ways to beat AA down, due to his hideous one eyed partisan nature on other topics.. I am actually going to back him on this one, 100%. 😀 .

In fact there is considerable difficulty in the UK in finding teachers, never mind decent ones. The fact that there is a shortage of teachers, one has to wonder why. I would postulate that its under paid, quite difficult, and quite personally risky (not just physcially but in terms of legal responsibility etc).

The truth is that there is an excellent system to remove crap teachers, it's just that heads, governors and LEA's often do not know how to use it or are too timid to use it (heads especially). Secondly, there are not that many crap teachers, often they are in very difficult circumstances and measuring there effectivness is pretty much an unproven science. OFSTED is often abritray in its assessment.

sounds like a load of hot air righty crowd pleasing nonsense to me

In fact there is considerable difficulty in the UK in finding teachers, never mind decent ones.

Is there? Depends a lot on what level and what subject. I bet if you're looking for GSCE physics teachers, there is a shortage, whereas if you're looking at primary, there is not.

Our nearest primary (nice, small town local school) had about 100 applications for their last vacancy. A lot of people coming off primary courses are finding it hard to get their first job.

Most people would get sacked for not doing a good job. Why should teachers be any different?

Yep.

Pretty much any other business operates some kind of performance management process.

Whilst in theory that is true, I dunno, I've worked in a bunch of private sector organisations which supposedly have 'performance management processes', and I've never seen anyone get sacked. The only time I've ever seen someone lose their job, was when they just completely disappeared for 6 months (complete with various work equipment), at which point they were written off as gone.

I've worked with people who basically didn't do any work, and worse, with people who were actively damaging to the ongoing progress of the projects we were working on, and they were never sacked. I think there is a lovely utopian 'private sector efficiency' idea that a lot of people have, but in fact the depressing nature of having to sack people, and the fact it would probably mean doing some paperwork or employing new people or whatever means that the vast majority of managers don't do it even when it is clearly what is needed.

I blame the parents and the courts. That means you lot first and foremost if you have children.

I've not met many incompetent teachers but I've come accross too many kids that make difficult maintaining order in the classroom at a level where teaching is possible. Contact the parents and they are as likely to insult you as help with disciplining their kids.

Those [b]that[/b] can, do, those [b]that[/b] can't.....

Which either neatly proves your point, or prima facie demonstrates your "opinion" is not worth listening to on matters of education.

Edukator. One of my mates has just jacked in teaching. She's just had enough

At primary age they were having kids literally kicking off, to the point of physically assaulting teachers.

When the school then attempts to discipline them, the kids parents would then storm into the school and threaten to physically assault the teachers for daring to questioning young Daz, Tommo or Kylie's right to do whatever the * they damn well like!

Who the * would want to bother with that every day? I know I wouldn't!

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/09/texas-police-schools ](Hand wringing, natch) Guardian article on police in Texan schhols[/url]

The truth is that there is an excellent system to remove crap teachers, it's just that heads, governors and LEA's often do not know how to use it or are too timid to use it (heads especially).

This. There is no reason for a bad teacher to remain in post other than the incompetency of management.

This is mostly true

it's almost impossible to stay in the job long enough to get to incompetency proceedings if you're no good.

As is this

I've come accross too many kids that make difficult maintaining order in the classroom at a level where teaching is possible. Contact the parents and they are as likely to insult you as help with disciplining their kids

ScottChegg - Member
Most teachers are rubbish. That's why they become teachers.

That however is bobbins.

My wife teaches, before that we ran a very successful business. She teaches as a vocation and lifestyle choice. She's also a historian and has turned down work at the university. She most certainly [b]can[/b] and would no doubt [b]do[/b] again if teaching conditions in France ever became as depressing as they were when we taught in the UK many moons ago.

[b]You get what you pay for[/b]. If pay and conditions were better there would be more competition for teaching posts and good teachers would stay.

JY - good morning!

no acadmey schools are shit as they can opt out the national curriculum and wags structures

I am merely thankful that my kids' school ignores the national curriculum, takes proper exams and refuses to hire wags!

Which either neatly proves your point, or prima facie demonstrates your "opinion" is not worth listening to on matters of education.

Not really, it's just a well-worn twist on a very corny, and factually incorrect advertising campaign, that probably wound up many members of the public who either suffered being taught by poor teachers; or, watched the low achievers at uni go: "I dunno what I want to do, a PGCE will keep me at uni with my mates dossing about for another year"

I believe there is an excess of teachers in most subject areas in Scotland - so you should have no problem replacing them.

4% doesn't sound like a lot, but if a typical large secondary school has say 80 teachers - they would have 3 teachers who are so bad at their job they should be fired. Whilst everyone will have experienced crap teachers - were there really that many who were so bad to be sacked?

Will the teachers be sacked from their current post but free to go elsewhere or will they actually be "struck off" the register - as without doing that its hard to see that you do anything other than reshuffle the poorest teachers into the schools with the poorest management / recruitment / reputation?

You get what you pay for. If pay and conditions were better there would be more competition for teaching posts and good teachers would stay.

.....and the solution is.......omg.....worms, can, open.......

Not really, it's just a well-worn twist on a very corny, and factually incorrect advertising campaign

Whosh! The sound of my point going straight over your head.

(Oh, and the ad campaign came long after the cliché....)

Poly to put a spoke in that, I have been a teacher for 7 years in three different schools and met one person who could not do their job. So less than 1% is my experience,and the one person had poor classroom control. Which opens another can of worms; at what point does not controlling some feral little sod become the teacher's inability to maintain discipline?

In fact there is considerable difficulty in the UK in finding teachers, never mind decent ones.

28000 teachers qualified last year. Of those, 3 had computing-related degrees so I reckon I'd be quite hard to replace 🙂

It's very difficult to feel dispassionate about teaching, as we've all spent some time in schools as pupils.

We all remember the teachers we used to bait mercilessly, the odd really inspiring one, and the fact that the teachers, in loco parentis, were the ones who made us sit through double physics on a sunny Wednesday when we'd much rather have been outside smoking/fighting/playing football/feeling wendy smith's t-ts.

On the whole we have no further adult interaction with teachers until we become parents, whereupon we pick up where we left off, side with our greasy oiks of kids and blame the "teachers" for little brandon's poor attitudes to education and self-discipline.

And that's ignoring the group prejudice we have developed based on the half dozen thickos at university who said they were off to become teachers because they couldn't think of a career as stimulating as working on a help desk telling other drones to switch it off and on again.

It's little wonder nothing ever changes..!

Lets talk about sacking crap pupils

Back in the depths of time when I graduated a PGCE meant a guaranteed job. Why? Because the pay was so bad that the best graduates opted for more money for less work - I did. If you want the best graduates to teach you'll have to pay them more and cut the mountains of admin they plough through. There will then be so many candidates headmasters will be able to choose the best and they won't disappear off into the sunset when soemthing appealing appears in the jobs pages of New Scientist or The Economist.

Zokes,

"I dunno what I want to do, a PGCE will keep me at uni with my mates dossing about for another year"

I know half a dozen people who did PGCE's, I'd be delighted if any of them were to teach my children - they are all really committed to education. I would consider it now if someone would pay me even half my current salary whilst I was training and guarantee me a job without having to move house and family. I was put off even giving it more than a passing thought by a few people I know who were in the profession who criticised it; of course like most teachers they had never done anything else and believed the grass is greener.

I'm sure like all walks of life there are some people who drifted into it because they didn't know what to do - but from what I can gather the selection criteria and training process in the PGCE is reasonably tough and weeds out most of the people who are "dossing about for another year". The application process is well ahead of most of the "dossers" thinking about what to do "next year", and usually oversubscribed. In many cases people will be doing a PGCE at a different institution, and having finished their degree most of their "mates" will be off to pastures new too - so I don't see how a PGCE is an obvious choice to spend it with their mates?

And that's ignoring the group prejudice we have developed based on the half dozen thickos at university who said they were off to become teachers because they couldn't think of a career as stimulating as working on a help desk telling other drones to switch it off and on again.

Don't get me started on the prejudices I have based on the career choices of the people I was at uni with 😉

Don't get me started on the prejudices I have based on the career choices of the people I was at uni with

😆

As a teacher myself, i would have no hesitation in removing a "BAD" teacher but those teachers who need help or extra training in upping their game should be given the support they need to become better practitioners.

Also, how do we measure the effectiveness of teachers? Teaching is not like working in a factory where higher output means higher wages or success.

The blunt tool that the Gove(enment) uses is how many GCSE's can a certain teacher help his students attain. This takes no account of class size, student ability, social problems, staffing shortages, work-load levels or extra-curricular clubs orgainsed.

I don't want to work in a school that expects my students to get 98% A*-C at GCSE and doesnt give a toss about the at-risk YR8 girl who has just taken an over-dose in my tutor group.

The question of what makes a "bad" teacher is very relevant for those who work in Academies. With no need to adhere to normal teachers pay and conditions, head-teachers of academies can set ANY employment regulations they wish. Want to bring back cloaks and mortor-boards? Go for it. Want to make teachers work from 7am to 7pm? Yup, go for it. How about teachers working 6 days a week? How about teachers working for less pay and 48 weeks of the year? How requiring all female teachers to be single and if they get married they have to leave the profession like they had to back in the 1920's? It's all possible in an Academy.

If people would just stop and think for one moment about the HUGE impact good teachers have on their often pissed off and marginalised off-spring then we would see TV campaigns and riots in the streets with parents demanding that ALL teachers are paid £1 million per year, given MORE holidays, EVEN better pensions and class sizes are reduced from 35!!!!! (YES 35, in some schools FFS) to less than 10.

Teachers should be viewed as the Kings and Queens of our society, NOT the whipping boy.

How requiring all female teachers to be single and if they get married they have to leave the profession like they had to back in the 1920's? It's all possible in an Academy.

Academies are still subject to normal employment laws.

REALLY? Academies have to adhere to "Normal" working regulations? Would a 19 year-old plumber who gets pissed on a Friday night and then posts a photo on Facebook of his drunken antics be fired by his employer first thing on Monday morning? I think not.

If that 19 year old was a "teacher" then he would be big trouble.

Adhere to normal employment law? Yeah right! Lets see how long that one lasts.

Simon_Semtex, you make a good point concerning the value of good teachers, but I haven't read the legislation that states Academies have a their own employment law, seperate to the rest of society. No one is forcing teachers to work at academies.

I think teachers are, on the whole, underpaid.

"No one is forcing teachers to work at academies"??????

How can you say this when ALL schools are being encouraged/forced to become Academies or suffer HUGE financial cut-backs and become the local sink school?

Also are you not aware that Academies have their own pay and conditions separate from the current teachers pay and conditions. Can you not see privatisation when you see it?

Only 17 teachers have been sacked in the last 10 years.

To me, that tells its own story.

And that story is..........?

Simon Semtex - you're not really helping matters, TBH.

In what way?

Story is...

No profession can have that many members with so few who need to be sacked.

The training for, say, GPs is more strict than that for teachers and more are 'struck off' despite there being a similar number of each (according to google).

Sacking doesn't just need to be for gross misconduct, it can be for failing to work to the expected standards. Although remedial training is used, there is less of a link between job safety and competence than in other professions.

My fiance is a Primary School teacher, and I know that there is an acceptance that some teachers aren't that good. The training does little to remedy this, yet they simply don't progress rather than being sacked.

I can't speak for Secondary teachers (and I suppose am not in an position to talk with authority on Primary teachers, just offering my opinion) but there are some who enter the profession to be educators, and are a credit to their schools, whilst others see it as an extension of childminding and shouldn't be left to teach and inspire a love of learning in our kids.

REALLY? Academies have to adhere to "Normal" working regulations? Would a 19 year-old plumber who gets pissed on a Friday night and then posts a photo on Facebook of his drunken antics be fired by his employer first thing on Monday morning? I think not.

Fair point bike monkey

"No profession can have that many members with so few who need to be sacked."

But your figures are wrong. There were actually 228 struck off by the GTC in the past 10 years. (211 for poor conduct and 17 for incompetence.)

For me the interesting bit is "POOR CONDUCT." Just what exactly is that? Posting pissed up pics on Facebook or swearing at kids?

Remember that the GTC is being disbanded and if you combine that fact with the increased powers of head teachers in academies then i wouldn't be suprised if "POOR CONDUCT" is widened to include infringements of the sartorial kind.

Which opens another can of worms; at what point does not controlling some feral little sod become the teacher's inability to maintain discipline?

Quick question are people confusing being struck off with being sacked?
Onereason not many teachers are scaked is that as mentiond earlier most people coldnt cope with being a rubbish teacher long enough to get sacked so resign anyway. Teaching is the worst job in the world if your rubbish.

angalisarvensis edit please, otherwise will all feel sad for the state of education. Your/you're and others..

I don't know an awful lot about this, but I've been told one of the reasons for moving to acadamies is that the standard teaching contract will not apply and it will be normal employment rules. So sacking will be automatically easier?

Also the thing about not many teachers being sacked etc etc isn't this down to the points made by angalisarvensis and others about
i) hard to stay in job if crap
ii) Competency procedures help people to improve rather than being dumped
iii) teachers are "encouraged" to leave rather than facing competency so that they can have a life chance elsewhere?
iv) more importantly the training and selection process weeds out the crap ones..

Scuzz....

My comment about the plumber was to illustrate the point that teachers are increasingly being held accountable for happenings in their personal life whilst they are at work.

EXAMPLE:

On 23rd Dec last year two Primary teachers in Hull were forced to resign for comments they made to each other during a PRIVATE Facebook conversation.

My point is that the general public wants it both ways. They want teachers to be held to the highest possible moral standards of our society, they want teachers PRIVATE lives to be accountable but at the same time say that teachers are overpaid, over-pensioned, over-holidayed, boring old farts who hate kids.

Simon_Semtex - Member

PRIVATE Facebook conversation.

http://www.****/news/article-2078280/Teachers-face-disciplinary-calling-pupils-inbred-Facebook.html
http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/Primary-school-teachers-Facebook-row-quit/story-14218528-detail/story.html

On 23rd Dec last year two Primary teachers in Hull were forced to resign for comments they made to each other during a PRIVATE Facebook conversation.

I'm not doubting you, but can you substantiate this so we can look at the facts for ourselves?

edit seen the post above it wasn't PRIVATE in any way..

angalisarvensis edit please, otherwise will all feel sad for the state of education. Your/you're and others..

half o it is the crap keyboard i'm frced to use!! There's cuts dont you kow!

funnily enough all those mistakes above are keyboard generated I didnt do it on purpose, although you'v got me on the your and you're thing. HE WRITES SMASHING ON THE BUTTONS

My point is that the general public wants it both ways

Or maybe the teachers that were happy to teach those children during the day then make nasty remarks in their spare time wanted it both ways?

boring old farts who hate kids.

You made this up for effect. In fact are you Fred?

Simon_Semtex - I wouldn't necessarily expect a 19yr old plumber (not sure why the age - as I think you will be >21 to actually have qualified as a teacher) to be sacked for getting pished and posting on Facebook, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a police officer, a youth worker or even a forensic scientist disciplined for bringing their employer into disrepute on Facebook. Certainly if any of them were discussing personal details of their 'clients/cases' on Facebook I'd expect it.

All teachers have the same legal employment rights as other 'ordinary' employees in the UK. I think the difference with Academies is that the standard teachers' contract (negotiated by Unions on a country wide basis) does not apply. There will be pro's and con's to that (e.g. pay the best teachers more if the employer wishes to; but not benefit from some of the collective union bargaining). Academy staff have the same rights to proper disciplinary process and employment tribunal that Local Authority staff do.

but at the same time say that teachers are overpaid, over-pensioned, over-holidayed, boring old farts who hate kids

If my plumber posted derogatory comments about me or my friends on facebook then I would sack him. If I was an employer and an employee posted derogatory comments about my clients or other employees then I would probably sack him. Seems reasonable to me.

Surely if the teachers in question thought this was unfair they could go to an employment tribunal and sort it out. But they were not even sacked, the resigned. Which goes back to angelisarvensis point and mine about how crap teachers leave, which undermines the statistics posted somewhat..

Poly....

That's entirely my point. Why should ANYTHING we do as individuals in our PRIVATE life be accounted for in our working lives?

Apart from cases were a law is broken, why should a commercial organisation have the right to tell us how to dress, talk or act DURING our own free time?

I don't know an awful lot about this, but I've been told one of the reasons for moving to acadamies is that the standard teaching contract will not apply and it will be normal employment rules. So sacking will be automatically easier?

Not the case, cheaper is the word you are looking for. I fancied a move to a rougher school in my Authority last year, less distance,but more work. Same job, pay scale etc. I didn't get it because they would have had to pay me top of scale. Now I run rugby teams, am an ML and run the DoE in my current school. I also get results in my subject and am dual qualified in another. Job went to an NQT who was £10k cheaper. I didn't get an interview, nor did anybody more than one year out of probation. They stayed until xmas. Lots of kids at the school travel 6 miles to the nearest DoE open unit as they don't have one.

It is common knowledge in the profession that senior teachers are not getting unpromoted jobs because they are nipping and tucking at the expense of experience.Now translate that mindset to an academy. How long until academies are paying off teachers who reach top of pay scale?

Apart from cases were a law is broken, why should a commercial organisation have the right to tell us how to dress, talk or act DURING our own free time?

It's written into most contracts that the employer has the right to terminate the employment if you make the company look bad, whether during or outside work hours - whatever the job.

I work for a bank, and as such they do an excellent job of making themselves look bad, I don't need to resort to BookMyFace or Witter to do it for them 🙂

Without wanting to UPSET Sir SEMTEX...I think you've gone off the point somewhat.

The focus is on incompetent teachers who can not carry out their job effectively. This effectiveness can be measured in a number of ways but the best measure of an incompetent teacher (IME of 15 years in the job) is the number of parental complaints about a member of staff. The real badd'uns and nut-jobs stand out a mile in this regard. The problem is those who are so bad that they don't realise it - thankfully there are none like this in my current workplace, but there were a couple at my last place who had absolutely zero self-awareness of how poor they were - out of control kids (who behaved perfectly well in other lessons) and very slow progression, ie. a lack of learning by students. These are the sorts of teachers that should be hastened out of the profession more quickly. And this is coming from an ex- union rep!

EDIT:

How long until academies are paying off teachers who reach top of pay scale?

*sigh* if only...

How long until academies are paying off teachers who reach top of pay scale?

*sigh* if only...

A good thing why?

Headfirst

Thanks for clarifying what "progression" means. Have been wondering for a while what it was.

It was apparently started by teacher Stuart Clark, who stated he was "fed up of bumping into children in town".

During the conversation, Miss Roberts replied: "by town, do you mean top end of holderness road?

"That's bout as far anyone in east Hull goes.

"No wonder everyone is thick....inbreeding must damage brain development."

Ms Johnson then said: "You're really on one today mrs... !! Xx."

Miss Roberts replied: "Haha, I'm actually in a good mood.

"If anyone reading this is offended, then get a grip."

of the cuff banter ill advised and foolish but there would be no one employed on this forum given what we post

Semtex, no CAPITALS? Is that how we tell you've gone from angry-shouty to condescending?

I've just heard on the radio that it can take up to a year to sack an underperforming teacher, is this correct?

don simon - Member
I've just heard on the radio that it can take up to a [b]lifetime[/b] to sack an underperforming teacher, is this correct?

Most people would get sacked for not doing a good job

Not easy to fire people unless they do some gross misconduct. You have to demonstrate consistent under performance, and that means having a credible benchmark and the means to measure what they are doing in some way.

just like any other job then.

is this really a sackable offence?

[pedant mode]No one was actually sacked. [/pedant mode]

However I am able to inform you Ms Johnson and Miss Roberts have decided to relinquish their posts at Westcott Primary School from December 2011 and will pursue other opportunities.

As I said before if they objected to their treatment then they could have gone through disciplinary and got the union to help them and then the courts could have decided if it was sackable.

Speakng as a teacher I see no issue in principle. The thing is though that those judged as poor teachers are not always so. They just don't jump through the ridiculous hoops that are called teaching by a succession of governments. dunno about the secondary schools but at primary level you are as much an administrator as educator. Chuck in a much too large chunk of police officer and social worker and its not always those who can't teach who "fail". Just those who won't play a very silly game.

Don Simon - it would take the best part of a year to fire anyone in the public sector who was just underperforming (i.e. not some gross misconduct issue - just a bit rubbish). Especially if they are the member of a union.

Buzz Lightyear - credible benchmark probably much easier in teaching than many other jobs. There are thousands of other teachers all with the same curriculum, and other teachers in the same school dealing with the same pupils.

Junkyard - I don't think you can have the full conversation there (or there was something more than this) as Ms Roberts appears only to have said "You're really on one today mrs... !! Xx". Unless of course she is an English teacher in which case the use of the phrase "on one" should immediately have resulted in her contract being terminated.

Semtex - standard employment contract stuff. Welcome to the real world - if you bring the company in to direpute, see you later, there are plenty of other people looking for work who are quite happy not to.

Duckman - it might = cheaper; but what it really means is driven by market forces not by the unions! That could mean the very best get more too.

Don Simon - it would take the best part of a year to fire anyone in the public sector who was just underperforming (i.e. not some gross misconduct issue - just a bit rubbish). Especially if they are the member of a union.

How long until children are asked to rate their teachers as part of some metric to decide which teachers are good, which are bad?