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Had to remonstrate with a lorry driver this morning after he almost took me out with his trailer. I pulled along side and told me what I thought of his careless driving. He then wanted to stop and get out of cab and make an issue out of it. Me on the other hand thought better of it and made my escape. Now I fear for my commute home and journey back in tomorrow in fear of mad lorry driver with a score to settle. Put my mind at rest that he wouldn't be that stupid? 😯
the likelihood of you ever seeing him again is miniscule. fret not.
If you're going to remonstrate you need to be able to back up the argument! However you'll probably never meet him again in your life.
Just take a slightly different route for a few days. Anyway a day later the red mist will have subsided and probably the worst you will get is a finger 😀
I wouldn't worry, I've done this loads of times in the past and have had numerous offers like this (plus, in reality once they're actually out of the cab they often calm down a fair bit) , you very rarely see them again and if you do they just shout something or wave their hand at you (in my experience. 😉 ).
If worst comes to worst, run away or just run round them until their fat heart gives out.
Ah, we all get the fear of repercussions the first few times.... Seems to me that most people that want a fight are indeed just seeing the red mist. They'll calm down.
The trick is not to inflame them in the first place. Rather than abuse, just say 'sorry mate, but you came pretty close with the trailer there'. Even if they deserve abuse, the calm friendly approach will actually work better.
If you annoy most people then they automatically reject any point you make, regardless of how right you might be.
I once had this when he failed to adhere to a give way sign [two lane road narrowed to one lane as traffic calming] and forced me to vere to the wrong side of the road down the cycle path gap - this forced him to emergency stop. He then stopped and despite me pointing at the sign started abusing me and offering me a fight 50's bald very fat. I said I had a better idea which was to run around his truck till his heart gave up. he did not laugh but the driver behind [out his car now] did He followed me into my work afterwards and carried on threatening etc till the office rang the police. He threatened me knew where I worked etc but never returned. A copy of the incident in the office with him effing and blinding and threatning to kill me was sent to his company. Still I never saw him again. Like keyborad warriors they get angry but they cant be arsed doing anything.
Just take a slightly different route for a few days. Anyway a day later the red mist will have subsided and probably the worst you will get is a finger
Christ, that would be a turn-around in feeling!
If you annoy most people then they automatically reject any point you make, regardless of how right you might be.
Exactly. Very hard to keep calm though lol.
i had some prick in a red convertable threaten to run me over the next time he saw me. 'remember this car' he screamed 'it'll be the one that kills you'.
I told him i'd remember the number plate and his description when I was reporting him to the police.
he calmed down quite a lot after that
If worst comes to worst, run away or just run round them until their fat heart gives out.
Ah, the Monty Python defence tactic 🙂
Don't worry, he'll just cut up every cyclist he sees for the next few days...
I've had this many times when commuting on motorbikes, just makes me laugh that they are offering you a fight - I'm 6'2" in my bare feet, and considerably taller when in bike boots and a crash helmet, plus my fully armoured leathers/gloves etc. One chap in St Johns Wood actually got out of his car and started 'jabbing' me in the chest.
I think the usual advice for cyclist is to just clear off (after opening their rear/passenger door) - a bit difficult with lorries though.
OP for a few days change your route or time leaving. The likelihood is he will think all cyclists look similar anyway.
I had a couple threaten to kill me and to watch my back. I didnt ride in for two weeks. The bloke tried getting out and I firmly shut the door and he stay sat but his wife got out and she actually went psycho. All it'd take is a swerve and a nudge.
I don't know - a friend of mine remonstrated with a BMW driver (not judging, just saying) and got a fist in his face through the open window.
Bus Driver behind got the licence place and was prepared to testify so the BMW guy got done for assault in the end.
One chap in St Johns Wood actually got out of his car and started 'jabbing' me in the chest
Either you have psycho drivers near you or you're not as intimidating as you think!
Don't worry, he'll be busy murdering a prostitute by the time you finish work, or busy eating a pie
mogrips, why should the OP have to start their calm point by saying sorry? They have no need to be apologetic. I suppose its the british way of apologising for stuff that isnt our fault!
Swap your cycling kit with another rider for the journey home 😆
Witnessed and interesting one this morning at Trafalgar Square. Myself and a few other cyclists were waiting at a red light when a lady on a cruiser just overtook and swept through the red, nearly swiping a suited bloke crossing the road.
The suited bloke yelled "Oi!" and proceeded to remonstrate with the lady cyclist. Just as he finished, the lights changed. I pulled up alongside her and said "Sorry love, but you brought that one upon yourself".
[url= http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=5309 ]http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=5309[/url]
why should the OP have to start their calm point by saying sorry?
Because it helps get the person on-side, and in a position where they might be able to take your point.
No point in fighting a fight where even if you do win it won't do you any good.
As noted on here. Not so long ago I truck driver forced me into the kerb and for me to hop onto the kerb (on a straight road). Circa 50m's on he did the exact same to a female cyclist. I followed him - grey/dull morning and he was wearing sunglasses ffs. I pulled up infront of him and informed him that I was going to be reporting him.
Did this- and received a call straight back from his employers with updates.
Business's large or small don't want to have higher insurance premiums etc etc caused by bad apples.
I had a similar incident a while ago - the "T-bar" thing on the back of this lorry actually hit me on the arm.
Not 100 metres later was a set of traffic lights on red. I climbed the steps up to his cab window and told him he'd just hit me. Now, this was a lorry with a long trailer, so I understood that it was a error and really just wanted an apology - this is all I ever really expect when some idiot cuts me up or whatever, but never get!
Anyway, his response was "No I didn't. I saw you in the layby". Obviously the [url= http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/the-anosognosics-dilemma-1/?src=me&ref=homepage ]Dunning-Kruger Effect[/url] at level 1.
So I called him a few words in his understanding range. Jumped down and rode off.
It's much easier to assume that a stranger is raving mad or making stuff up than it is to accept you've made a mistake or are wrong.
Even though very few people make up wild stories on the spot for no reason.
Something worth remembering on STW too.
molgrips. The first thing we should learn as children is understanding when we are in the wrong and more importantly to be man enough to say 'sorry'.
Most folk nowadays think it shows some sort of weakness or affects their maleness.
nice use of our latest buzz word Dez. I once had the passenger argue with me that they had not cut me up despite the fact I was able to overtake them as they pulled out [turned left oin front of me] and stopped in front of them to explain. you get used to it but occasionally the red mist takes over.
EDIT: Good point Hora I once had a woman pull up along side me wind her window down and say sorry bloke automatically go to mental without thinking sadly
Absolutely Hora.
Still I never saw him again. Like keyborad warriors they get angry but they cant be arsed doing anything.
i think it may be a little dangerous to think this is ALWAYS the case.
http://www.****/news/article-1269563/Road-rage-motorist-killed-cyclist-revenge-knocking-wing-mirror.html
(apologies for daily mail link - 1st that came up in google!)
[i]nice use of our latest buzz word Dez[/i]
Thanks! I shall be using it a lot 🙂
Op how did the incident come about?
Maybe I am testosterone deficient or something, but I can't fathom the "Do you want a fight?" response.
I can understand someone getting angry if they think they are being wrongly accused (or even if they know they are being rightly accused but don't want to admit it) - but I just don't get how that translates into wanting a fight?
If he gets out and beats me to a bloody pulp then does that mean he didn't clip me with that wingmirror and actually he is the excellent driver he thought he was?
[i]the likelihood of you ever seeing him again is miniscule. fret not. [/i]
Maybe with lorry drivers but I'd say that on my regular commute I recognise probably 1 car in every half dozen or so, certainly around the quieter streets (maybe not so much as I get closer to the city).
It's one reason why I avoid confrontation at all costs on a commute, chances are you'll see the same person (or someone who witnessed any incident) again.
but I just don't get how that translates into wanting a fight?
Inability to vocalise their side of the argument.
If you're going to remonstrate you need to be able to back up the argument!
So dont tell a driver he is bad at it unless you are prepared to get into a violent confrontation?
I've had a few confrontations and being a bit of a "nark" some of them have got physical (I dont see this as a virtue BTW) now I simply politely tell people they are poor drivers/should give more room etc then ride/walk away. In most situations I expect them to accept it and apologise/do nothing etc.
I dont hold back just in case they get shirty. Some people need to be told and ignoring dangerous driving is a bit cowardly if you ask me and only means it may continue and somebody else may pay for you inaction.
Maybe I am testosterone deficient or something, but I can't fathom the "Do you want a fight?" response.
You might not feel it yourself, but you have to understand it cos it's a big part of life unfortunately.
If he gets out and beats me to a bloody pulp then does that mean he didn't clip me with that wingmirror and actually he is the excellent driver he thought he was?
No, but it's what part of his brain is urging him to do, so he does it. A lot of people cite being angry as a justification for doing something.
Some people need to be told and ignoring dangerous driving is a bit cowardly
Agreed, but being angry with someone is counter-productive. You need to be reasoned, calm, friendly and humble - but do make your point.
molgrips, perhaps i didnt read your post properly, but i still dont see why the person who has been nearly hit needs to apologise for being nearly taken out. I just dont think its right to apologise to the person for being in the way of their lorry!! There are plenty of other ways of being non confrontational without being apologetic.
Its like someone throwing a punch at you and then you apologising that your face was in the way of their fist!
but being angry with someone is counter-productive
I dont agree Anger is a natural response for some people, its the action that follows that needs to be measured and anger doesnt need to lead to violence, they are seperate things.
Anger can lead to a response such as remonstration, constructive argument or confrontation, all of which may be positive. Anger as an emotion needs to be channelled but may not be counter productive per se.
Anger can lead to a response such as remonstration, constructive argument or confrontation
Lol!
Do you think an angry shouting red-faced person is MORE or LESS likely to take your point and admit their mistake?
Sorry Daisy didnt read the original author. Sorry to hear that but hopefully it happened nearer work than home which gives you a couple of route options. Get some details and report it.
Take care dude!
You might not feel it yourself, but you have to
understand it cos it's a big part of life
unfortunately.
I understand that it happens, and I understand situations that it might happen in, but I can't understand the motivation behind it.
If someone accused me of driving like a cock then I'd either apologise or get angry and argue my case. But no part of me thinks [i]"This person disagrees with me and I believe them to be wrong - therefore I shall challenge them to a duel with bare-knuckle fisticuffs and possibly a Crooklock"[/i]
But then I don't get the punching someone for spilling your pint thing either.
Perhaps I'm too delicate for this world 😀
cynic-al - Member
Op how did the incident come about? [i]
He over took me in a 30limit giving me plenty of space, then we immediately come to a set of t'lights and pulls in front. His cab had plenty of space, but his 30ft trailer nearly took me out. Had to unclip and lend as far left as i could, over a set of railing, to avoid being clobbered.
Do you think an angry shouting red-faced person is MORE or LESS likely to take your point and admit their mistake?
You mentioned "shouting" and "red faced" I didnt and why would you assume that when people get angry they go red faced and raise their voice?
Are you just trying to strengthen your argument?
There are plenty of other ways of being non confrontational without being apologetic.
Fair enough, if you can find one.
I suggested a familiar sentence form that included the word 'sorry' more as an 'excuse me' type of opener - possibly even in a sarcastic way. I didn't say that you had to actually be contrite.
Psychology is the reason why sorry is used in this sentence.
why would you assume that when people get angry they go red faced and raise their voice?
Because that's usually what happens... especially in road rage situations... it's not called road rage for nothing.
Because that's usually what happens... especially in road rage situations... it's not called road rage for nothing
But you are confusing "usually" with "in all instances"
I frequently get angry (I see this as a flaw) but I struggle to conceive of a situation where I would be physically violent, any issues I have had have been in defence. I dont get a red face or shout.
This person disagrees with me and I believe them to be wrong - therefore I shall challenge them to a duel with bare-knuckle fisticuffs and possibly a Crooklock"
I dont want to have a fight either but when someone looks you straight in the eye and pulls out on you and then says it is your fault as you dont pay tax or some other b0llox I find my desire to engage in reasonable dialogue is somewhat diminished.
I aint fighting though EVER.
Dunno about others but I like to ease off to aid overtaking for long or slow vehicles.
Of course Al, as you're always going so fast! 😕
Self-control is a sign of a mature and psychologically sound person.
So not everyone can override their natural urge to get angry when confronted or scared.
Personally I make my feelings known remotely - by waving my arms around, or just putting it down to them being an idiot and staying away. Too easy to come to harm when it's car vs bike
I frequently get angry (I see this as a flaw) but I struggle to conceive of a situation where I would be physically violent, any issues I have had have been in defence. I dont get a red face or shout.
Well that's great, but how does you explaining your less common case help this thread?
I am the same FWIW.
by waving my arms around
I did the handle-shuffle once. The lad braked hard and selected reverse (at speed).
What really works us the 'what' open arm gesture? Works in the car as well. combatitive-types lookout for and get off on aggressive hand movements IMO.
...but as you say- the best thing to do is nothing. Stressing out cancels out the benefit of cycling into work.
Bigyinn it's nothing to do with speed as the op has demonstrated.
Well that's great, but how does you explaining your less common case help this thread?
Dont know but surely even anecdotaly it makes a greater contribution than telling the aggressor that you are sorry. 🙄
You're not telling the agressor you're sorry for getting in their way.
You're opening a sentence with a common disarming turn of phrase in order that your conversation might achieve a useful end.
I think that's a useful life lesson. And it works for me often.
but as you say- the best thing to do is nothing
But surely that just reinforces bad/dangerous behaviour. We can disagree on what response is appropriate but in my opinion there should at least be one.
cynic-al - MemberDunno about others but I like to ease off to aid overtaking for long or slow vehicles.
Yup - in conjunction with owning my space in the road so they can only overtake when [i]I deem[/i] it safe. So when the road is narrow I am right out into the road stopping them squeezing past, When there is enough room for them to pass safely I tuck into the edge, stop pedalling and wave them thru
Reasonable questions along the lines of "does my safety matter to you" are pretty disarming IMO.
, When there is enough room for them to pass safely I tuck into the edge, stop pedalling and wave them thru
A good idea but too often abused, giving us a bad name.
Al - always done with my safety as the paramount concern - but it seems reasonable that if I have been forceful in making them wait behind I acknowledge their patience in doing so and make it easy to pass when I deem it safe
I don't really see how it could be abused
I like to ease off to aid overtaking for long or slow vehicles.
I like them to wait till there is enough room to overtake me safely like the highway code says they should do.
I don't really see how it could be abused
Folk do it where it's not necessary.
Me too!Junkyard - MemberI like them to wait till there is enough room to overtake me safely like the highway code says they should do.
I ride on the pavement, it's much safer.
Anyway, thought you'd like to know I made it home without incident, phew, but thought better about cycling in this morning. Silly I know.
Thanks for all the advice. Think I'll think twice before opening gob next time! 😆
Stay safe.
B
Don't let em get to you! Especially not in this perfect riding weather
If I realise I am holding up traffic and might be for a few hundred yards more, I pull over or hop onto the pavement.
Glad to hear you are safe DD.
Last time I had a lorry pull back in on me to soon I chased after him as I knew he would have to stop up ahead and when I did catch up with him and pointed out that he'd pulled back in on me he was very apologetic which completely through me. So there are some good lorry drivers who like the rest of us miss judge things and are ready to say sorry.