Road bikes – better frame or better groupset?

Mulling over buying a new road-bike – budget is £2k max (C2W limit)

I’m looking at Orbea bikes, which are available/in-stock
Options are –
Orca M40 – carbon frame as used on bikes up to £3.5k – but bottom of the range with 10 speed Tiagra – hydro discs £1999
Avant H30 – ali frame – as used on bikes starting at £1100, but top of the range with 11 speed 105 – hydro discs £1749

The Orca is better looking by a country mile, but is 10 speed Tiagra crap?

Would you go for the cheap Ali frame with better group-set or the more expensive Carbon frame with lower group-set?

I’d get the Carbon / Tiagra one fo sho.

£1,750 for an alu road bike with 105 seems a bit rich anyway?

But are the wheels equivalent?

They might have more impact on the feel & performance of the bike than the frame.

Why just orbea? That has left you with a very narrow choice.

I’d want more than either of those options for that money, namely a better groupset on a decent carbon frame (and I think that’s realistic from stock if you shop around).

groupsets are easier to upgrade than frames (and generally cheaper), so i would go with the carbon frame. Run the tiagra until it wears out or you can afford to replace it.

Having said that tho… i have an alloy cannondale topstone with 105 on it, and its very good. Albeit i am no road rider, so have nothing to compare it to.

Better frame.
Upgrade the other bits when they wear out.

Carbon frame would be my choice, group sets wear out. I have never bought a complete road bike and always started with a frame that I liked then added/upgraded bits .It also depends how much road miles you do and how long you intend to keep a bike/frame.

https://www.tifosicycles.co.uk/shop/bikes/scalaredisc/

Carbon & 105 @ £1999 ?

showing as in stock as well.

But are the wheels equivalent?

They might have more impact on the feel & performance of the bike than the frame.

The same wheel set as far as i can see (Shimano cup and cone) – which is fine as i have a set of Hope Pro4/Pacenti wheels ready to go on whichever bike i go for.

Why just orbea? That has left you with a very narrow choice.

I’d want more than either of those options for that money, namely a better groupset on a decent carbon frame (and I think that’s realistic from stock if you shop around).

I like the look of Orbea bikes and having spoken to Sigma Sport they have what i want in stock with more on the way.. Open to other ideas though.

Keep an eye on Cycle Exchange too.  They do CTW on used bikes and you may get lucky.

The Orca is better looking by a country mile, but is 10 speed Tiagra crap?

No, but bear in mind that you’d need to change the STIs to go 11 speed, which is an expensive upgrade. Given that Shimano seems to have pulled the plug on mechanical Ultegra, 105 would be your limit in any case.

Whilst it’s true that road groupsets wear out, they do last a long time even with a decent annual mileage.

Tiagra 4700 10 speed is *excellent*

The mechs are compatible with 11 speed road shifters should you want to change to 11 speed for whatever reason in the future. But I feel no need – shimano nailed the cable-under-tape shifting quality and hood feel with 4700/5800/6800 and onwards.

Eg. Tiagra 4700 10 speed shift quality and lever/hood feel is way better than 10 speed 105/Ultegra 5700/6700.

Re frame/groupset. I’m not familiar with those exact models, but I’d go for the one that suitss me best based on fit and geometry feel requirements over frame material.

Also be prepared to spend money on new wheels/tyres as even 2k road bikes often come with heavy wheels and steel bead tyres. Nice light wheels and supple tyres make a bigger difference to ‘feel’ than frame material per se IME.

but is 10 speed Tiagra crap?

No but you might not have a wide enough FH body to upgrade to 11 speed at a later date, meaning a later change to 11 speed could be quite a cost/faff…

TBH I’d seriously consider the Aluminium frame with 105, odds are you’re probably not going to upgrade the group on whatever you buy.
And I’m not sure a carbon frame is as much of a selling point as people often believe, if this is a C2W bike that you are going to actually cycle to work an extra few hundred grams is perhaps worth giving away for a more robust frame and a slightly nicer group…

Of course if you are convinced that Carbon is worth the premium, Tiagra is certainly a good group, if you don’t mind forgoing one extra click…

Bonus question Does it have to be disc braked?
I accept discs are generally better but you might find your money goes further on both frame and group without the discs, noting that Orbea (and others) seem to have pretty much ditched rim brakes now…

Better frame. Don’t let the tail wag the dog…

I’ve recently got a carbon road bike and the difference in quality in the frame over a similar alloy is very significant, huge even. Base level shimano hydro brakes are great – i would not hesitate in getting them. You can evolve a group set over time so its a no brainer for me.

Tiagra 4700 is absolutely fine. Good clean shifting.

Always go for the better frame.

But Tiagra 4700 is excellent. I’ve been running it on my commuting/touring bike for 5 years. God knows how many km, many off road and its still smooth and slick. Never even changed the cables.

No but you might not have a wide enough FH body to upgrade to 11 speed at a later date, meaning a later change to 11 speed could be quite a cost/faff…

This is a good point – i plan to fit my Hope/Pacenti road wheels to whichever bike i buy – which have an 11-speed shimano freehub – i assume the 10 speed Tiagra kit works with this?

Bonus question Does it have to be disc braked?
I accept discs are generally better but you might find your money goes further on both frame and group without the discs, noting that Orbea (and others) seem to have pretty much ditched rim brakes now…

I have rim-braked road bike (2014 Giant defy) and a Disc braked Arkose (which is being sold to make way for a new bike)
I’ve done 1000s of miles on both so plenty of time for comparisons.
I’m not interested in buying another rim braked bike as the difference to me is night/day – i’m a heavy rider (100kg) and feel a lot happier with hydraulic discs.

I like the look of Orbea bikes and having spoken to Sigma Sport they have what i want in stock with more on the way

The thing is, they don’t. They have a nice frame with the wrong groupset and a nice groupset on the wrong frame. Current tiagra is great. But it would be madness to spend £2k on it. Just spend a couple of hours surfing bike shop websites (who take your voucher scheme).

Here’s a starter: Winstanleys have a TCR Advanced 2 in stock – so decent carbon frame and 105 (in med/large whatever that means). There will be loads of similar options out there. Only you know your size, voucher scheme, idiosyncratic preferences etc. Ultegra is probably within reach if you are patient.

Other than one extra cog there is no difference I can tell between my tiara and 105/ ultegra group sets. Shift quality is exactly the same.

In fact I actually far prefer the hydros on my tiagra bike, seems to be a bit more space between Disk and pad meaning less noise when wet

Buy the one you like the look of best, cos that’s what’ll make you want to ride it far more than what it’s made of or what bits are hanging off it.

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXPCDFOR22/planet-x-pro-carbon-disc-sram-force-22-hrd-road-bike

£1700

Carbon and Force.

If you’re buying online, may as well go for VFM.

I’m with the majority, go for the carbon frame. The current 10 speed Tiagra groupset is almost certainly as good as Ultegra 6700 from a few years back thanks to Shimanos trickle down process.

Even at the top end there is very little difference in performance between 105/Ultegra/Dura Ace, it’s all about materials and weight savings, and that’s according to the manufacturers themselves.

+1 for the planet X. I got one, sold the fulcrum wheels on eBay. Upgraded to Carbon aero bars as well (they look nice 😜)

I’ve got that Orbea but with 105 groupset. Also I went for the rim brakes. I ride it regularly and in preference to a supersix. It’s a nice bike. The Tiagra today will be pretty much what 105 was yesterday in terms of feel though missing a few niceties and adding some weight. The wheels were fine – though I did buy a set of carbon rims last year.

Buy the one you like the look of best, cos that’s what’ll make you want to ride it far more than what it’s made of or what bits are hanging off it.

Agree. Any £2K road bike will be fine and any differences will be negligible in terms of speed.

This is a good point – i plan to fit my Hope/Pacenti road wheels to whichever bike i buy – which have an 11-speed shimano freehub – i assume the 10 speed Tiagra kit works with this?

It should need be a small spacer behind the cassette (may already come with it).

TBH given you already have some new 11sp wheels lined up and my upgrade point is a bit redundant…

If you want carbon, I’d get the carbon, think of Tiagra as being 105 with one less click in all the ways that you’re likely to notice…

Yeah, the nicest frame – and wheels, and whatever groupset you get, if it’s 11sp then it’ll all be good

I’m still on 10sp 105 with the out-front wires on my road bike, they are more than capable. The key is to get it to feel comfortable for you to knock out the miles on