As we’ve said before, Starmer is in an inescapable position.

So was Corbyn. This wasn’t recognised by many people on here.

Let’s face it Starmer is given slack to be as right wing as he wants to by the same people that simply didn’t want Corbyn in power.

They believe the person is the problem not the policies.

Which is why a thread on Tory outrage is perfect because you don’t really see discussion about Starmer pushing back on Tory ideals.

Okay that’s fine – but don’t ever expect change to problems intrinsic to the current system.

We’ve moved from being a Tory is the worst thing ever to Starmer needs to be a bit of a righty to gain power; to yeah Starmer is correct to keep things in private hands.

The slavish support of Capitalism delivering fail after fail is mind-blowing.

I know it’s not going to happen but I would absolutely piss myself if Sunak tried to take us back in somehow. Liberals would be in tatters.

Oh and before you start Binners – bog off, I want to discuss politics not exclude leading politicians from debate just because you can’t cope with a bit of criticism of your Centrist pin ups.

Absolute genius idea to send Green out to defend the governments sewage policy….

"I remember as a child in South Wales swimming in sewage"

Conservative MP @DamianGreen says water pollution from sewage dumping has always been an issue, but it used to be perceived as more acceptable #Peston pic.twitter.com/386v3pltuJ

— Peston (@itvpeston) May 17, 2023

Polio, rickets, outside toilets, and sub-50 life expectancy used to be the norm, but for some reason snowflake society finds them less acceptable these days.

Swimming around in shit never did me any harm!

Anyway… this Rishi Sunak bloke? The one the thread is meant to be about?… this is a good article about by Rafeal Behr about Sunaks weakness and thus his inability, or unwillingness, to take on the utter headbangers, led by Braverman, This means he’s totally snookered himself as he can’t do anything that he actually needs to do because they’ll all soil their petticoats in outrage.

So Suella Braverman and the ‘National Conservative’ far right nutjobs are already effectively running the country, and doesn’t she bloody well know it! PM in all but name.

The PM is treading the perilous path of indulging Suella Braverman and her allies on the Conservative hard right

Absolute genius idea to send Green out to defend the governments sewage policy….

Well the Tories are obviously very worried about this:

https://www.camdennewjournal.co.uk/article/labour-party-leader-sir-keir-starmer-wants-water-supply-to-be-run-by-common-ownership

LABOUR party leader Sir Keir Starmer has signalled he supports the nationalisation of water utilities as the fallout from the floods continues.

The New Journal asked Mr Starmer what should happen now. “Water should be run in the best interests of the environment and consumers – not shareholders,” a spokesperson for the Holborn and St Pancras MP and party leader said. “Labour believe that common ownership can deliver that.”

He used common ownership to obfuscate his own inability to say nationalisation.

Anyone with half a brain knows there are no societal benefits to a monopolistic private water company.

The moronic economic position of a private company running the lifeblood of the nation.

Terrible state of affairs. We should now be grateful those same companies are putting a few quid in – which will cost us as bill payers as opposed to the government paying.

https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-urges-rishi-sunak-to-describe-china-as-a-threat-to-uk-security-12882545

She warned the West should not work with China and that totalitarian regimes “don’t tell the truth”.

“We know what happens to the environment or world health under totalitarian regimes that don’t tell the truth – you can’t believe a word they say,” Ms Truss said.

https://inews.co.uk/news/more-than-half-of-water-bills-in-england-help-fund-leading-chinese-investment-firms-2201489

More than half of water bills in England help fund leading Chinese investment firms

The PM is treading the perilous path of indulging Suella Braverman and her allies on the Conservative hard right

Culture war nonsense is all Sunak has atm, he’ll lean in to these loons hard, because any rebellion will leave him even weaker
Johnsons purge of the brexit doubters means theres no one sensible left

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rishi-sunak-makes-yet-another-u-turn-as-he-dumps-tory-immigration-pledge_uk_6465c0fae4b06749be11b03e

Rishi Sunak Makes Yet Another U-Turn As He Dumps Tory Pledge To Cut Immigration

Hiya,

Just a note today Rich tea has u-turned on immigration today and the pledge of below 200K. It is worth pointing out that net migration reached 750k last year this was by official channels and visa’s, so the government in control of these or should be. Just to point out that last year the figures of those arriving by boats was 45K. Just pointing out the false narrative by this government and the media, because surely they should have more of a grip on the Visa’s? Personally I think it’s all crap and my family are refugees, so to say illegal in front of something where there is no legal route shows how this the Tory’s are using to stir up support from the Right wing…

BR
JeZ

Prime minister, why exactly are we on a Japanese aircraft carrier? pic.twitter.com/tezII275pp

— Robert Peston (@Peston) May 18, 2023

Combining Liz Trusses love of the Instagram photo opportunity with Johnsons urge to leave the country every time things get a bit sticky

I think accusations that Rishi has gone to Japan to improve his self esteem by making himself feel a bit taller for a few days are unfounded.

The truth is that he’s still growing and hasn’t reached his full height yet. Come to think of it… has anyone checked his birth certificate? He has the look and manner of an awkward 14 year old,

well I say 14, more like 13 and 3/4 really.

Suit was bought to fit him at 13 3/4 but he’s had a growth spurt which explains why his trousers are now too short.

Rishi Sunak is the same height as Winston Churchill was. Which is a couple of inches shorter than Adolf Hitler, who lost World War Two btw.

There are so many things wrong with Rishi Sunak’s politics, there’s no need for racist and sexist pish like the above

Combining Liz Trusses love of the Instagram photo opportunity with Johnsons urge to leave the country every time things get a bit sticky

To be fair to Rishi, I’m not sure you can schedule a G7 meeting to evade difficult political situations at home. I think it’s more that things are perpetually sticky in the Conservative death spiral.

The only thing I can’t get past is that he sounds identical to Simon Bird in the Inbetweeners every time he opens his mouth.

So Suella Braverman and the ‘National Conservative’ far right nutjobs are already effectively running the country, and doesn’t she bloody well know it! PM in all but name.

Farage & the Brexit nutters effectively ran the previous couple of Tory administrations.

Did you read this link?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rishi-sunak-makes-yet-another-u-turn-as-he-dumps-tory-immigration-pledge_uk_6465c0fae4b06749be11b03e

Rishi Sunak Makes Yet Another U-Turn As He Dumps Tory Pledge To Cut Immigration

His comments put him at odds with home secretary Suella Braverman, who earlier this week said overall immigration levels must fall.

Sunak’s immigration climbdown came just hours after it was confirmed he has dumped his Tory leadership pledge to close all of China’s Confucius Institutes in the UK.

The first paragraph puts him totally at odds with Suella Braverman and the last paragraph puts him totally at odds with Liz Truss.

https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-urges-rishi-sunak-to-describe-china-as-a-threat-to-uk-security-12882545

Suella Braverman is no more ‘prime minister in all but name’ than Nigel Farage was running the government when Boris Johnson was prime minister.

Revealed!

Who is the Secret Tory?

All is revealed in…

The Tories! pic.twitter.com/Wt3WL9X8Kt

— HENRY MORRIS (@secrettory12) May 31, 2023

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

Probability of possible outcomes
Labour majority
92%
Lab minority
6%
No overall control
1%
Conservative majority
1%

The recent slow gain in Conservative fortunes did not continue in May, as Labour consolidated their lead over the Conservatives, which now stands at 16pc (compared with 15pc the month before). On these figures, Labour are still set for a landslide victory if there were a general election soon.

Don’t worry, Labour, their various factions of supporters and the right wing press are perfectly capable of **** up that advantage.

Starmer is doing his best to give the pro europe parties the advantage 🙂  Even major unions are now coming out and saying that brexit is a disaster and so is labour policy on europe

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/03/sunak-under-fire-as-stupid-eat-out-to-help-out-scheme-to-be-focus-of-covid-inquiry

Sunak might not be quite the saviour of the UK he was making out when bigging up his Eat Out To Help Out scheme…

Although that much was obvious to most people but I can see why he’s suddenly upset about the whole WhatsApp messaging thing – Sunak’s messages will probably show him ignoring all the advice and spending £1bn of public money on subsidising cafes.

There’s that and also the suggestion that WhatsApp was the main form of communication being used for the ‘Fast Track’ for dishing out multimillion pound PPE contracts to their mates, obviously to avoid oversight or scrutiny

So if Boris sets the precedent with all his WhatsApp messages then the inquiry will demand all the rest of the cabinets too. I’m sure they’ll fight tooth and nail to stop all that becoming public. Apparently the one with the most to fear from this is Michael Gove, which would explain why he’s been very quiet of late

From the Guardian link above:

Rishi Sunak is facing a barrage of criticism in the run-up to the official Covid-19 inquiry as a leading scientist attacks his “spectacularly stupid” Eat Out to Help Out scheme, which is believed to have caused a sudden rise in cases of the virus.

During the first Tory leadership contest Rishi Sunak strongly attacked Boris Johnson’s handling of the Covid pandemic claiming that he had empowered scientists too much;

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rishi-sunak-says-scientists-were-too-empowered-over-covid-lockdowns_uk_63072185e4b0f72c09ddd95c

The Tory leadership contender said one of the government’s biggest mistakes was giving too much power to scientists and claimed the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) edited its minutes to hide dissenting opinions.

“We shouldn’t have empowered the scientists in the way we did,” he said.

Sunak added it had been “wrong to scare people” during the pandemic with images such as posters showing Covid patients on ventilators.

When I pointed out that on here, and suggested that we were lucky that Rishi Sunak hadn’t been PM during the lockdown period, I was told that he was simply making those claims to garner support for his leadership bid and it didn’t mean anything.

What if WhatsApp messages suggest otherwise? Especially as in the Huffpost link above Sunak seems to be suggesting that he had his own spies informing him:

Sunak claimed Sage removed some opinions from its final minutes, but said a Treasury official would listen to the meetings and brief him on the omissions.

“The Sage people didn’t realise for a very long time that there was a Treasury person on all their calls,” he said.

tjagain
Full Member
Starmer is doing his best to give the pro europe parties the advantage 🙂 Even major unions are now coming out and saying that brexit is a disaster and so is labour policy on europe

So I provide a link by a reputable pollster who has done extensive research which shows that Labour has consolidated its huge lead over the Tories in the last month, and that it points to a Labour landslide general election victory should it be held under the present conditions, and your reaction is to yet again bang on about brexit and claim that Labour’s policy on it is costing them support?

Do you think a Labour landslide is setting the bar too low?

I believe the polls that show this is an anti tory vote not a pro labour one and that labour becoming brexiteers will lose them significant votes.  We saw this in the local elections, we see this in polling on brexit.  Just wait until the campaign when the “two cheeks of the same arse” gets hammered by pro EU parties.  All labour are doing is turning into moderate tories – leaving them wide open to be attacked from the left and from the pro EU parties.

We will see this poll lead slip a lot i believe – not so much that tories will gain votes but the greens, lib dems, SNP and welsh nationalists will all make gains and eat into the labour vote ( or in the case of the SNP lose far less than they could hve

When you listen to other voices its obvious and clear.

I know you have this huge blind spot over brexit but labour becoming enthusiastic brexiteers is a huge vote loser.  Results and polls show this

I know you have this huge blind spot over brexit but labour becoming enthusiastic brexiteers is a huge vote loser. Results and polls show this

You are confusing me not wanting, like most people, to turn every political discussion into another tedious debate about brexit with me having a “huge blind spot”.

Results and polls do not show that brexit has become “a huge vote loser” for Labour. Labour’s stance on the EU undoubtedly loses them some support and undoubtedly gains them some support.

Whether it loses Labour more votes than it gains them is fairly irrelevant in context of their huge lead over the Tories which according to the latest poll, despite your dismissive attitude, suggests they are maintaining and even slightly consolidating.

Whether it loses Labour more votes than it gains them is fairly irrelevant in context of their huge lead over the Tories

While the sane amongst us hope that is true, if the anti-Tory vote gets split between Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and anyone else, FPTP means that it may not translate into seats Labour need to form a government.

Thats the fear more cash.  labours enthusiastic embrace of brexit will lose them votes to other parties.  the polling and the local election resuulsts show this and also show its an anti tory vote not a pro labour one.  Labour vote remains soft and is hardly any higher than under Corbyn.  so its not a pro labour vote, its an anti tory one.

Dragging this kicking and screaming away from being another Brexit thread…

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/05/sunak-takes-raf-chopper-to-dover-just-over-an-hour-away-by-train

Is there some sort of competition as to who can amass the most flying hours/most cost in private aircraft in the Tory ranks?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/31/sunak-private-jet-trips-cabinet-office-flight-costs
https://www.thenational.scot/news/20295759.liz-truss-spent-500-000-private-jets-just-three-months/

Labour vote remains soft and is hardly any higher than under Corbyn. so its not a pro labour vote, its an anti tory one.

Well it’s currently about 1% higher than it was at the 2017 GE, when Labour said they would respect the Referendum result, and about 11% higher than it was the 2019 GE when Labour promised a second Referendum on EU membership, but I’m not sure I would call that “hardly any higher”.

I very much agree that Labour’s vote is soft though. But most of all I agree that it is an anti-Tory vote more than anything else.

There are currently no Labour policies which appear to have energised the electorate. Support for Labour appears to be based on the desperate hope that they will be better in government than the Tories, and not much else.

I for one find Labour’s huge leads in the polls a tad puzzling – Tories behaving like Tories hasn’t always automatically translated into huge leads for Labour, although ‘Tory government fatigue’ has played a significant part in the past.

I am also puzzled by the apparent lack of support for the LibDems, they only polled a ridiculously low 11% at the last general election, which undoubtedly helped the Tories achieve such a huge majority, there is nothing to indicate that they are on course to significantly improve on that at the next general election.

For literally years now the polls have shown LibDem support as being about what it was at the last general election or even lower. They say that the electorate has a very short memory but cosying up with the Tories and enthusiastically supporting austerity appears to have cost the LibDems dearly.

Starmer is doing his best to give the pro europe parties the advantage

This is a completely wonky interpretation of a poll that shows a (slightly) increased Labour lead over the Tories and a 92% chance of a Labour majority government after the next election. Starmer’s uninspiring and un-alienating EU policy is not costing Labour net votes.

Other polling and the local election results show this clearly,.  labours position is very alienating.  I will not vote for them and I know others who will not because of their pro brexit policy

However this is the Sunak thread – apologies for diverting it.

I’m convinced Rishi has been told to do something pisstake-worthy every time he appears to either distract us from attacking the policy or to just get his video/picture retweeted.

I mean, the latest press conference is clearly intended to deliver lots of retweets with the hilarious ‘stop the boots’ tagline.

However this is the Sunak thread – apologies for diverting it.

Yeah let’s leave brexit for a moment, what do you reckon about the suggestion that Rishi Sunak doesn’t want the Covid inquiry to access incriminating WhatsApp messages concerning his own personal opposition to Johnson “empowering scientists”?

I am also puzzled by the apparent lack of support for the LibDems,

Last time we were discussing this there was a LibDem party member who popped up to put a few things straight. And to be fair, he did correct my mis-interpretation of the way things work with the LibDems.

I thought you voted LibDem and then it was just pot-luck if the policies you actually voted for got thrown on the bonfire or not.

Turns out, if you vote LibDem, what you are actually voting for is for the 70,000 or so LibDem party members to then have a vote amongst themselves to decide what you (as a non-LibDem party member) have just voted for.

How they still have any votes beyond their party members I have no idea. Presumably people just assume the set up isn’t as bonkers as it actually is.

Edit: Sorry if this is derailing the Sunak thread. I would post it on the thread for the LibDem leader but I have no idea who that is at the moment.

Not unusual for party members to have votes on policy. You could always become a member.

Also not unusual for only a subset of manifesto policies to survive contact with coalition, as government in Scotland over the last few decades (or any number of other European governments and UK lower level administrations) should have made obvious to all by now.

[ EDIT: sorry, should be ignoring all the thread diversions… will try harder ]

Is there some sort of competition as to who can amass the most flying hours/most cost in private aircraft in the Tory ranks?

“Don’t you know how important I am”… busy, busy… look how precious my time is.

There’s more competition for Mad Lizzie and now Little Rishi on the private jet front…

James Cleverly’s use of private jet described as ‘ludicrous extravagance’ https://t.co/QStpMYchZW

— The Guardian (@guardian) May 22, 2023

Not nearly enough private jets or RAF helidrops in Sunak’s May rewind…

Amazingly that video Sunak and No.10 considered such a great idea that they paid our money to make, so brilliant as to commit to it being a monthly thing, and an hour later so embarrassing as to delete, was still in my phone cache…

Let’s make sure this piece of art goes viral. https://t.co/NyNzjgb6En pic.twitter.com/BC6TTU8oy2

— Alex Andreou (@sturdyAlex) June 2, 2023