Kelvin, I stand corrected.

dazh,

You’ve perfectly outlined the reasons that I rate her.

I was about to ask what those members who voted for her think of her now? Thinking that they might have nominated her in the hope that she would use the role to undermine Starmer omce he shifted from his ‘pledges’ to the membership.

In the event, she hasn’t turned out to be Rebecca Wrong Daily 2.0, she’s turned out to be a pragmatic and extremely effective sidekick for the boring one.

Why has she changed her mind?… How do we know that she has. What we do know is that she has changed her stance, maybe with an eye on getting the Labour Party into government.

And with the Tory party in utter disarray, she probably figures that a shadow cabinet that looks unified and fit for purpose is more of a vote winner than some silver bullet policy or doubling down on some point of ‘principle’.

OI! Back in your box, you! Off you go to metaphorically shout at buses….

As opposed to bashing each other over the head with Malbec – politely.

We might actually discuss something of substance on the Starmer thread about Rayner’s stance on policy rather than banging on about how entertaining it is watching her hurling insults and faux-outrage at public school tory boys. Like why is she so quiet about all the policies Starmer has dumped which she enthusiastically supported and promoted a few years ago? She was an uber flag waver for energy and water nationalisation and the abolition of tuition fees back then. Why has she changed her mind?

You’re not going to get that analysis here Daz.

Wonder how many Tory outrage threads there are now?

If Starmer says Labour are now the real Conservatives then surely he ought to be in here really?

If Starmer says Labour are now the real Conservatives then surely he ought to be in here really?

That isn’t what he said.

Admit it binners, you knew that simply mentioning Rayner’s name would bring all the Starmer thread fan boys to the yard…

Great start….

“Can I welcome yet another deputy prime minister. The third ones a charm. 😂”

Jesus… Dowden is straight on to banging on about Jeremy Corbyn again

That isn’t what he said.

Maybe he should sue the I then.

“Jesus… Dowden is straight on to banging on about Jeremy Corbyn again”

Off to the Starmer thread with him..

Anyone else listen to the speeches at the NatCon conference….?

Surely if more people heard it, they would be scared off by the rhetoric spouted by various Tory MPs.

Lineker was right!

A selection of speeches at the start of the News Agents Podcast. Good episode.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5jYXB0aXZhdGUuZm0vdGhlLW5ld3MtYWdlbnRzLw/episode/NTE1YWJmMDItZjJlOS00NzhjLWIxYjMtYmY2YzZjMzE1MDE5?ep=14

That isn’t what he said.

Maybe he should sue the I then.

And lodge a compliant with the Independent Press Standards Organisation :
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/labour-real-conservatives-keir-starmer-protect-way-life-2337576

Labour are the real conservatives, says Keir Starmer as he promises to protect ‘our way of life’

Although lot of newspapers reported that Starmer said he didn’t care if people called him a conservative.

Ah, I see the confusion. From your link…

“The Conservatives can no longer claim to be conservative“.

You see the difference, yes?

Some more…

“We can seize the opportunities of tomorrow and make them work for working people. But this ambition must never become unmoored from working peoples’ need for stability, for order, security.”

“We must understand there are precious things – in our way of life, in our environment, in our communities – that it is our responsibility to protect and preserve and to pass on to future generations.”

“And look – if that’s sounds conservative, then let me tell you: I don’t care. Somebody has got to stand up for the things that make this country great and it isn’t going to be the Tories.”

“That in the end is one of the great failure of the last 13 years. A Tory Party that in generations past saw itself as the protector of the nation and the union has undermined both. They’ve taken an axe to the security of family life, trashed Britain’s reputation abroad, and totally lost touch with the ordinary hope of working people.”

“The Conservative Party can no longer claim to be conservative.”

“It conserves nothing we value – not our rivers and seas, not our NHS or BBC, not our families, not our nation.”

Anyway, a useful conversation for the other thread. I won’t add to the take over of this thread with any further comment on this here.

The Conservatives can no longer claim to be conservative“.

You see the difference, yes?

Wow, some desperate straw clutching going on there!

Obviously the Labour Party cannot be the real “Conservative Party” as that is a separate and different political party!

According to the i newspaper Starmer said that Labour are ‘the real conservatives’, and that he doesn’t mind being called a conservative.

That is what is being pointed out, nothing more.

And yes it is totally relevant to this thread. This thread about the current Tory leader was started over a year ago, nowhere in its 68 pages has it been suggested that the problem with the Tory Party is that they are not real conservatives.

Now the leader of the Labour Party has suggested precisely that.

So is Rishi Sunak, to bring the thread firmly back onto the subject matter, a real conservative or not? The Labour leader doesn’t think he is.

What conservative values should we be looking for, from a Labour Party perspective?

We might actually discuss something of substance on the Starmer thread about Rayner’s stance on policy rather than banging on about how entertaining it is watching her hurling insults and faux-outrage at public school tory boys.

Dowden isn’t a posh boy. So we had the spectacle of two working class sell-outs slagging each other off. Still, it provided some folk here with some entertainment to accompany their organic tapas.

Im not sure if the NatC party conference needs its own thread- maybe the Braverman one

but its wild that Sunak has lost control so much that this is being allowed to happen this in summary of yesterday was brilliant

https://thecritic.co.uk/tory-trolling/

and already today weve had Starkey managing to be as offensive as he can manage about both slavery & the holocaust and we have even had the grand finale from 30p Lee yet!

So many Starkey quotes from the National Conservative rally today that send a chill down your spine… hard to pick one… but I’ll go with…

“They do not care about black lives. They only care about the symbolic destruction of white culture.”

…I wonder if Sunak will row back on supporting his ministers attending this event?

So we had the spectacle of two working class sell-outs slagging each other off. Still, it provided some folk here with some entertainment to accompany their organic tapas.

Aren’t you meant to manning a barricade somewhere comrade?

So many Starkey quotes from the National Conservative rally today that send a chill down your spine

I do wonder if Starkey has always been this batshit but was better at hiding it in the past or if he has just gone off the deep end over time.

…I wonder if Sunak will row back on supporting his ministers attending this event?

Looks like he has decided on the “disagree but personal choice” approach. After all what can he can do about it? Sack them and then do what? Promote one of the backbenchers who attended instead. Unless one of them personally says something he is going to be cautious.

“This thread about the current Tory leader was started over a year ago, nowhere in its 68 pages has it been suggested that the problem with the Tory Party is that they are not real conservatives”.

That’s because the Tory party abandoned conservatism for ethnic nationalism back in 2016 with the Brexit vote so for many of us, the notion that the Tories aren’t conservatives any more has been priced in for some time, (and baked in since 2020).

Still, I admire your ability to scan through and absorb 68 pages of comments in 60 seconds. It also confirms that although you’ve often responded to mine and others posts, you’ve obviously never read them but I’ll indulge you one more time:

“What conservative values should we be looking for, from a Labour Party perspective?”

Respect for Parliament and the rule of law. I’ll leave it at that.

Aren’t you meant to manning a barricade somewhere comrade?

It’s touching that you took time out from well-remunerated crayoning to recycle one of your very small stock of pictures.

Heres something for your other shoulder. Balance you out a bit…

Still, I admire your ability to scan through and absorb 68 pages of comments in 60 seconds.

LOL! That is absolutely brilliant
….are you really suggesting that the only way I can be sure that no one has suggested that the problem with the Tory Party is that they are not real conservatives is by scanning the last 68 pages?!?! 😂🤣

I can assure you that if anyone had posted drivel like that previously it would have come to my and other people’s attention.

Starmer struck a new low for Labour by claiming that Labour are better conservatives than the Tories. Predictably people like you and Kelvin fully back this nonsense despite never having made that claim before Starmer did.

You even claim that, quote, “respect for Parliament and the rule of law” is a conservative value. It most certainly is not. Social-democracy, for example, also respects Parliament and the rule of law, conservatives do not have ownership of these values.

Try to come up with specific conservative values which you believe that the Labour Party should now embrace.

That’s because the Tory party abandoned conservatism for ethnic nationalism back in 2016 with the Brexit vote

So now that Starmer backs brexit does that mean he is also supporting “ethnic nationalism”?

Wtf is ethnic nationalism btw? Is Britian no longer a multi-ethnic society because of brexit?

Mustn’t respond,
mustn’t respond,
mustn’t respond….

Anyhow, interesting article in the G today from Owen Jones. He’s hoping for a hung parliament so that a Lib Lab pact could have another stab at electoral reform, something he thinks unlikely if Labour were to win outright.

I’d be happy with that.

Mustn’t respond,
mustn’t respond,
mustn’t respond….

I think it is fair to say that posting that ^^ is very much responding.

But in such a way which actually betrays the fact that you can’t explain why the Tories are ethnic nationalists for supporting brexit but Starmer isn’t an ethnic nationalist for supporting brexit.

Well to be fair how could you?

Sunak campaigned for Brexit, he wanted it.
Starmer campaigned against Brexit, he warned against it.
It’s happened.
Now we need someone to sort the shit out. Fun job. I wouldn’t want it.

Deciding not to fight the next election on a rejoin platform is not the same as backing Brexit.

Confusing, I know.

Deciding not to fight the next election on a rejoin platform is not the same as backing Brexit.

It is exactly the same. The end result is no different. Why do you think it is different?

I am starting to realise that for some people the problem isn’t Tory policies and values at all. It turns out that Tory policies and values are fine just as long as they are supported by the Labour Party. It is some sort of weird football type tribalism.

And then they wonder why voters are so cynical.

Why do you think it is different?

You don’t really need that explaining to you. No one should at this point. We can walk around that circle yet again if you really want to though… and bore off everyone else.

Are we back to you responding by saying that you are not going to respond Kelvin?

Deciding not to fight the next election on a rejoin platform is exactly the same as backing Brexit.

If you don’t agree then perhaps explain why. Responding by saying you are not going to respond is pretty pointless.

Foolishly trying to contribute to the thread. I’ll come back if/when it’s moved on. Not getting sucked into that Brexit leave/remain vs diverge/rejoin/repair discussion here, because it’s all been done many many times before. It long ago became too dull to repeat.

So we’re back to a long spiel about how you’re not going to respond. Jolly good.

Keir Starmer sets out Labour’s 5-point plan to Make Brexit Work

[ deleted ]

It is exactly the same

For someone into politics you seem to know very little about it 🙂

Well I might not know much but still enough I reckon to understand that:

“Keir Starmer sets out Labour’s 5-point plan to Make Brexit Work”

doesn’t sound like Starmer isn’t supporting brexit. I suspect most voters would also see it like that.

Edit: I have just realised that the Labour Party website even uses capital letters in “Make Brexit Work”, it is almost as if they want it to be a three word Labour election slogan!🙂

As we’ve said before, Starmer is in an inescapable position.

It’s like football fans screaming SHOOT at the striker when he cam see that he has limited options and needs to execute a complex play to actually make an attempt on goal. You can’t always slot it in the top corner from the edge of the box.

he can see that he has limited options

I am not criticising Starmer’s position on brexit! I am just pointing that it is now fundamentally exactly the same as the Tories – the UK isn’t going to rejoin the EU and, let’s “Make Brexit Work”.

It is some sort of weird football type tribalism.

I refer you to my post yesterday about this very subject. I have a centrist friend (not binners BTW) who doesn’t stop banging on about Labour needing to replace the tories, but when I ask her what the point is if Labour won’t do anything different her answer is ‘who cares, it’s just better under Labour!’. Personally I think it’s worse. Much as I hate the tories I at least know not to expect anything different. Under a Labour govt though all I feel is frustration and disappointment.

The man is on another planet, wage growth is clearly slowing as growth slows due to labour income failing to keep up with price rises. A flimsy argument to condemn working people to unemploymenthttps://t.co/zgpcaSqEUY

— Hollywood (@J_MoAGoGo) May 17, 2023

These dirty bastards.

Because they can’t get inflation under control – it’s now your fault you greedy peasants.

I don’t know how they dare.

They wreck the economy between them, increase the money for interest income and asset holders then turn around and blame the worker for inflation that was caused by external influences.

Neoliberalism at its finest.

Andrew Bailey earns 575,000.

Heres something for your other shoulder. Balance you out a bit…

More pictures! I guess they help if you find words too difficult.