[Closed] Riding on Low (zero) carb diet

Surely you'll die on [b]no [/b]carbohydrates? Atkins is low-carb, rather than no-carb?

Can I get round these rides (and future training) wihout a crash & burn energy drop? or will my ample stores of body fat suffice for fuel?

No, the body does not run well on fat. Look forward to 4 months riding with no energy at all and probably doing more harm than good as you're never going to replenish your glycogen stores!

Don't take you heart rate above L2 (fat burning zone).

You will be slow, and bored.

On the plus side you'll look gaunt and ill in all your wedding photos!

congrats on the wedding dude! i'm making a concerted effort to shift some flubber before sept, lower carb.. no not carb for me.

cut out the road riding and reduce those miles..nobody likes riding on the road anyway 😀

good on you. and roll on July

ive not done Atkins. I imagine you will be wanting to exercise at a lower rate tho. Stay hydrated is good, and personally i would be going for a strong coffee pre-commute to kick your metabolism as much as possible.

beware ketosis from the diet, invest in mouthwash, mints, chewing gum... you will have a lot of people to speak to between now and July

+1 on the mints, you'll have breath like death.

Why Atkins diet ? and will you continue to live like this for the rest of your life ?.

🙂

Congrats SJ78.
You mention carb free diet to get the weight off - does it have to be a carb free diet ?

I find doubling the distance and halving the pace to be a better rule of thumb for weight loss. Ideally mix in with 30 mins of running too (running far better at burning calories, but don't do it if you're not a runner).

Keep us updated on the death-breath !

I did and Atkins based diet a few weeks ago for two weeks. I can honestly say it was the hardest thing I've ever done. Mixed in with it was pre breakfast and post dinner rides and an extra 3hr ride at the weekend. I spent most of the two weeks feeling like shit and I had no energy, although I did lose loads of weight.

The rides I did were very hard and I found even after the short rides I has blurred vision and generally felt like I was going to pass out. After about 10 days I finally started to fell better and stronger as it seemed my body had become accustomed to using fat stores for energy.

Knowing what I know now there would be no way I'd attempt 90 miles but that's just me although It's probably different for everyone.

Good luck.

probably not solo... he's making an effort for a specific event, much like people who train for a race then put on some weight again afterwards.

everyone's so quick to criticise the choices of other's on this forum.

[img] [/img]

[i]everyone's so quick to criticise the choices of other's on this forum.[/i]
🙄

damn skippy it was 😛 not in any kinda serious way though 😀

i'm still scared to admit i have the odd sandwich, biscuit and chocolate bar incase you come round my house and beat me to death with a hard-bound copy of the iSolo diet 😆

Phil.
[i]damn skippy it was not in any kinda serious way though

i'm still scared to admit i have the odd sandwich, biscuit and chocolate bar incase you come round my house and beat me to death with a hard-bound copy of the iSolo diet
[/i]

Phil.

I ask two Qs out of geniune curiousity.

Perhaps I don't know anyone on the Atkins diet, perhaps I'm curious whether people can / do exist on such a diet, indefinately.

You're such an ass.
[img] [/img]

I'm dropping 1kg a week at the moment with a bit more exercise, no chocolate or puddings and (wait for it) smaller portions. Museli for breakfast, try not to go crazy on carbs at night but still have a couple of potatoes or a small portion of rice.

Zero carbs isnt a good idea and you dont need to do it to lose a lot of weight.

As it happens, ive being doint the exetended 'exercise' thing for 18 months or so and managed to shift 5 stone as a result..although slipped at xmas and put around 20lb back on in only 3 or 4 months..

So, in an added effort to help MrsSJ by sticking to a matching diet, and having read lots of very interesting articles on the nature of carbs etc (not going into it now - but in a nutshell we all appear to be slaves to sugar - which my well not be neccessary) - im dead keen even on an experimental level to see how the low/zero carb diet works for real.

If I die on my arse training in the forthcoming weeks then ill review the situation. If I manage to get by, hopefully with some useful advice, then great.

BTW, 20g of carbs per day is the current plan, building to 40g or so over the next few weeks.

And i'd rather look gaunt and pale at my wedding than a chunky monkey, but thanks for the support 🙂

the iDave diet is zero carb isnt it? you know loadsa people on that

[img] [/img]

[i]the iDave diet is zero carb isnt it? you know loadsa people on that[/i]

Yeah, for those with zero brain cells.

Carry on Phil.

SJ78.
Keep us posted on how you get along.
BTW, congrats on your impending marriage.
A relief to meet a normal person who doesn't need to scheme up some weird getting not married party...

A relief to meet a normal person who doesn't need to scheme up some weird getting not married party...

[img] [/img]

[img] ?w=295[/img]

[img] [/img]

I'm on the anabolic diet which is slightly different to Atkins in that one day a week I have a carb up so that it replenishes my glycogen stores in my muscles. This normaly coinsides with my Sunday ride so I have plenty of energy. Come Monday I'm back on high protien, high fat and low carb. Afaik the lack of energy you are feeling is because you've only just started on the low carb route, your body hasn't shifted over to using fat as its primary sauce of energy yet. It can somtimes take several weeks for it to become fat adapted. Then your energy levals should return. Have a look here:
http://stronglifts.com/anabolic-diet-101-the-definite-anabolic-diet-guide/
I'm certainly not saying this type of diet is for everyone but I've been on it for coming up 4 years and I'm not dead yet 😀

That sounds no fun at all.

Still can't work out what is wrong with the eat/drink what you like, in sensible portion sizes & do a decent amount of exercise lifestyle.

[i]Afaik the lack of energy you are feeling is because you've only just started on the low carb route, your body hasn't shifted over to using fat as its primary sauce of energy yet[/i]

I would add that for what I've read, your body will use fat for energy when you undertake low to moderate intensity activity.

If you engage in high intensity activity, then if I've got this right, your body may start a process of gluconeogenesis ?.
Which may not be what you're after.

bjj.andy.w

Hob Nob
That sounds no fun at all.
Still can't work out what is wrong with the eat/drink what you like, in sensible portion sizes & do a decent amount of exercise lifestyle.

It isn't fun Hob Nob. It is an interesting experiment though.
As above, ive been living the dream you mentioned with good success. Unfortunately, im running out of time to meet my goals. And with a busy job and youg family, time is genuinely hard come by when it comes to lengthy quality exercise.
Also, (at the risk of opening a huge can of trolls) I made the point that there is a lot of evidence to suggest that carbs are more or less alien to our bodies in terms of evolution, with occasional seasonal bursts of fruit & nuts to essentially enable us to fatten up for the winter. Basically carbs=fat, and carbs=insulin fluctuating all over the place.

Im just keen to see how this experiment pans out for me.

You've dropped 5 stone (well done) but then put on the best part of 2 stone over the winter. Maybe a less dramatic regime might rendor more consistent results and be a bit more pleasant? I stuff my face before every ride, go out and enjoy a good long blast then try not to overdo the rewards after. Dont you want to to enjoy riding your bike too?

Of course I want to enjoy, I'm yet to discover if I'm not able to enjoy, this weekend will be a good test bed.

In fact, im heading off road tonight so may have a better idea this evening. It won't be on the single speed though...

bjj.andy.w

thanks for that Andy, hows that diet worked for you in terms of weight loss and sustaining?

It works very well for me because I don't have to deny myself anything. If I want a choccy bar, cake or whatever I can have it during my Sunday carb-up. During the week I never get any sugar cravings due to my blood sugar levals being consistent. Like I said before its not for everyone due to the strict nature of the foods you can eat mon- sat but it works for me. As for weight loss I came off the diet at Christmas due to being at my sisters over the holiday period so it was a bit unfair to expect her to cook separate meals just for me so due to a injury (no biking)and being "fattend up" by her I put on over a stone 😳 went back to my normal diet and within a month I'd lost it all.

I can understand it (sort of) if its a time constrained process/experiment.

However you (self confessed) view it as an evil process, chopping out things you like etc, it's not a long term solution. Much as there are fans of all 'fad' diets, general sensible eating surely is the way to go?

I couldn't/wouldn't do the STW favourite, because it excludes a lot of things I like to eat. I like to enjoy food, and eat pretty much anything I like - just sensible portions. If you can't eat the things you like, you may as well view food as simply a fuel and eat the most basic, needy requirement.

A goal is all very well and good for a short term fix, but a long term sustainable plan surely is the key to success. I don't want to have to go without something as simple as milk in my coffee in the morning,

And no, i'm no fortunate enough to be one of those people who has a monsterous metabolism, I used to be. But now I have to work hard. This month alone i'll do over 20,000 calories on exercise. The added benefit is, I enjoy it, I get fitter & people don't look at me funny because I smell funny due to only eating beans and sprouts.

Time, sadly is always the issue. Busy work & family life just means you need to want it that bit more. Get up early and ride to work, do something in lunchtimes, get out at night. There is always time, you just have to want to do it enough.

Surely [/b]you'll die on no carbohydrates[b]? Atkins is low-carb, rather than no-carb?

Care to give some evidence on that?

The body does run well on fat???? Are you kidding me???? Fat is our primary energy source.

Can people please get this idea into their head, the body runs on ENERGY not fat, not carbs, not protein.
The body can create energy from any of the above, the ability to do this is based on many different factors, which can be altered with diet and exercise.
There is no need for any carbs in the diet, there are no 'essential carbs' However as athletes carbs at the correct time i.e. straight after the workout will aid recovery and muscle repair.

Maybe some of you who think you understand how the human body works should do some reading.
And NO this is not atkins, atkins focused too much on the protein, he was misguided as he did not understand the hormonal reasons as to why low carb was better. If you go low carb you have to go high fat to replace the energy.

Oh and fat doesn't make you fat, sugar/carbs and insulin do.

 

Naff, my quotes didn't work so well!

Well said Hob Nob.

What type of fats should you eat in a high fat diet?

The body does run well on fat???? Are you kidding me????

I'll assume you missed the operative word out of that sentence in your haste to stab the question mark as much as possible 🙄

Naff, my quotes didn't work so well!

Weird, the forum's easier than the human body, which you clearly know everything about!

Over simplified I'll admit, but you can't expect to ride at your normal levels and intensity on fat stores alone straight off, whilst it will become more efficient over time you're not going to perform at the same level as someone who is eating carbs. Prove to me otherwise? Do you think professional riders do it for a giggle?

Tom.

I think I'm undrestanding your point, although you did seem to almost trip yourself here:
[i]Fat is our primary energy source.

Can people please get this idea into their head, the body runs on ENERGY not fat
[/i]

Not that anyone is bothered, but I'd go with, obviously the body is run on [i]energy[/i].
This energy needs to be stored.
One form of energy storage is body fat.

Oh and fat doesn't make you fat, sugar/carbs and insulin do.

Shirley to much of any food type makes you fat with the added bonus of heart disease with a high fat diet.

Prove to me otherwise? Do you think professional riders do it for a giggle?

I suspect we're not talking about racing here just normal folks that ride bikes

I would suggest you take carbs on-board from time zero when riding that way it will be used to fuel as you need during the ride and also would preferably get some in as part of any recovery drink you have at the end of a tougher ride.

However depending on how hard your rides are you should find yourself getting used to operating without carbs on your rides as we are designed to predominantly burn fat when exercising (aside from VERY high intensity)but initially your body wont be used to it and so you should gradually build this up hence me suggesting you have typical riding food during a ride, it is still important however to have it after a ride to replenish any glycogen used to aid recovery.

Totally no carb is not a good idea, low carb can work well for weight loss however I would look to eat one meal a day with some low GI carbs such as sweet potato as carbohydrates are still important for a number of functions in the body.

Oh and fat doesn't make you fat, sugar/carbs and insulin do.

Amen brother.

Can I not? well I do, maybe not straight off, but the transition doesn't take as long as people think.

In your post you didn't say that at first the body does not run well on fat, you said it doesn't run well on fat, full stop.

And yes you can run as well on fat as you can on carbs, easily. And how do you know what the pros do. I know of a number of pros who use this.

Solo - Member
Tom.

I think I'm undrestanding your point, although you did seem to almost trip yourself here:
Fat is our primary energy source.

Can people please get this idea into their head, the body runs on ENERGY not fat

Not that anyone is bothered, but I'd go with, obviously the body is run on energy.
This energy needs to be stored.
One form of energy storage is body fat.

POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO #

So you're saying that energy is our primary energy source?

You're not wrong, I suppose.

the added bonus of heart disease with a high fat diet.

another falacy.
there's very little, if any evidence to suggest this.

High sugar diets and poor control of insulin levels leads to diabetes and heart conditions.
The sugary west has the highest proportion in the world.

Those living on [i]fat[/i] alone have proven to remain fit and healthy.

NO NO NO legspin!!!!!!
Fat doesn't make you fat and it doesn't give you heart disease (I should know this one!)

And calorie excess isn't what makes you fat, its all about your hormones.

I sense I am hitting a brick wall here so I'm going to give up.
I'll put up some links to the evidence by some very clever people, I guess my medical degree, the fact that I work in cardiology, the nutritional qualifications, the coaching qualifications, the degree in human exercise physiology just aint enough for some people!

[url=www.bhf.org.uk/heart-health/prevention/healthy-eating/saturated-fat.aspx]These people know nothing about the heart[/url]

And yes you can run as well on fat as you can on carbs, easily. And how do you know what the pros do. I know of a number of pros who use this.

Pro what? Darts players?

If you cannot make time for seperate excerise then excerise needs to part of your daily routine e.g the commute to work. If this is not practicable then changing your cicumstances would be preferable to using a diet like Atkins to lose weight as it on thing to lose it but to keep it of means staying on a Atkins like diet that is no way to live. I do not know what your journey to work is like or the length of your working day, only you can decide if it practical to commute by bike for example.

I thinks diets are a quick fix solution to problem that does not address the underlying problem. Adjust you daily routines to make exercise a part of your daily activities.

In your post you didn't say that at first the body does not run well on fat, you said it doesn't run well on fat, full stop.

I said it was an over simplification. The OP is wanting to do 90 miles this weekend, I can't see that'll be much fun.

And yes you can run as well on fat as you can on carbs, easily. And how do you know what the pros do. I know of a number of pros who use this.

Pro cyclists who eat no carbs at all? Not for recovery, before a big race, nothing. At all. Names please?

I guess my medical degree, the fact that I work in cardiology, the nutritional qualifications, the coaching qualifications, the degree in human exercise physiology just aint enough for some people!

Get over yourself. All of that is cancelled out by your need to use more than one exclamation mark/question mark.

Wow tom your my hero *swoon*

[i]Get over yourself. All of that is cancelled out by your need to use more than one exclamation mark/question mark.[/i]
This. Very much so.

I know, I'm sorry about that. I just find it frustrating sometimes because I spend my day trying to stop people dying from heart disease that we know now is caused by something completely opposite to what we thought. It sounds silly but its a bit like finding God (not that I have). You feel so great about it and you want everyone to feel like you do, but no one will listen.

I've dropped 10kgs in the last couple of years. Did it slowly.

Much better to train your body to burn carbs than cut them out.

Avoid processed starchy foods and go for whole grains, fresh vegetables, fruit etc. Cut out as much fat as possible and have cold pressed oils such as olive oil instead. Boost up low fat proteins.

Untoasted oats are a really good fuel and when combined with nuts, seeds, dried fruit etc make a pretty tasty soaked muesli.

you best get on the phone to the BHF Tom.

Tom above is absolutely right, (similar credentials here) it's all a bit of a hot topic in medicine at present, a very interesting subject. Have a read of Gary Taubes two books, "The Diet Delusion" for those that want a referenced academic read, or "Why We Get Fat" which is more accessible.
Even the great Tim Noakes S African Sports Medic and author of the Lore of Running has changed his mind about the high carb diet for athletes issues recently.

Also, you won't die on no carbs, the Innuit manage pretty well (or did when they were on carb free diets of fish and seal meat), and there's no such thing as a "fat burning zone", there's a burning more or less fat relative to glycogen and ingested carbs zone that's all.

I suspect the truth as ever lies in the middle, some carbs are ok for some/most of us and insulin resistance varies with age and genotype.

(Blimey Tom took a bit of flak while I was typing am I going to get the same? Still feel he needs defending though).

Trust me legspin, they are involved. Its just taking time.

I know, I'm sorry about that. I just find it frustrating sometimes because I spend my day trying to stop people dying from heart disease that we know now is caused by something completely opposite to what we thought. It sounds silly but its a bit like finding God (not that I have). You feel so great about it and you want everyone to feel like you do, but no one will listen.

I don't really care, you've refuted most of the comments folk have made, despite taking them out of context, now name some of these pro cyclists who eat no carbs at all please?

*bites lip*

For clarification

Amongst other reasons, the length of my commute and age of my children, and working hours (etc) means cycling to work is only possible during school holidays - which I do.

Despite only seeing my child for 1.5 to 2 hours per day, I still find time for exercise on average between 4 and 5 times per week, 'burning' between 10k and 20k calories per month

I completed more cycling miles than ever before last year as well as running nearly 500 miles and several half marathons (having never run before 2011). Losing over 70lb in the process. ( I now feel well versed in the virtues of eating sensibly and remaning active)

I have taken up regular swimming this year in an effort to prepare for several Triathlon events this year.

I am still 50lb+ from anything like the weight I want (and need) to be, and my Wedding (one of but not my sole inspiration) is approaching incredibly fast.

I have studied (and am still studying) evidence to suggest that carbs are satan's greatest success story, and am therefore keen to see what the body is capable of without them. Statements like those from TomHughes convince me more that I may not be on to a loser despite what the majority think.

dying from heart disease that we know now is caused by something completely opposite to what we thought

On a scale of 1 to 10 how sure are you that you're right this time?

If I'd asked you that before what would your number have been?

[i]*bites lip* [/i]
Lips can contain starchy carbs, Dave, careful.

Lips can contain starchy carbs, Dave, careful.

😆

Have a read of Gary Taubes two books, "The Diet Delusion"

Or the american press version of the same: ''good calories / bad calories''

One of the very books that has inspired me.
I see that there are at least a couple of people whom have taken the time to read & understand current evidence based thinking toward diet.

I think in time, everyone will come to realise that diet/nutrition as we have known it until now, is frankly wrong.

It's really simple. Find a way of eating that's suits your body and run with it.
I've found one that works for me, I'm happy. The OP is happy with his way.
Because you think you know about the body or do it for a living doesn't mean your right or wrong.
Let people do what they want. Technically there is no wrong way if you have the desired result and are healthy.
Basically we still know **** all on how the body works, which is a quote from someone I work with who you address as Prof.

[i]Basically we still know **** all on how the body works[/i]

Is right. For instance, if I eat a sausage, a little bit later I do a poo. But if I eat a poo, I don't do a sausage. Work that one out.

phil, you're absolutely correct we don't know its right, we just know we were wrong. If I had to go with a number I'd say based on the evidence that has been presented in the past 2-3 months (this stuff is moving fast) I'd say I'm personally 9/10.
But others are not so things are moving slowly.

Njee, sorry I missed your earlier comment. The athletes in question are pro triathletes, not cyclists. But also as I said above, carbs have their place and these athletes use them. They just use them to aid they recovery and during the last stages of races where the dipping into the muscle glycogen has taken its toll.
They are not using carbs in the traditional sense of carb loading and ingesting tonnes of carbs during the race. And no names I'm afraid it would be unfair to the athletes to disclose that.

[i]So you're saying that energy is our primary energy source?

You're not wrong, I suppose.
[/i]

Thats a reading the post [b]Fail[/b]

I said, the body uses energy.
Humans store energy in their body's.
One form of energy storage is body fat.

[i]*bites lip* [/i]
LOL, alot !.
Come on iDave. Surely you've learnt by now to laugh at some of the stuff being posted here.

[i]For instance, if I eat a sausage, a little bit later I do a poo. But if I eat a poo, I don't do a sausage. Work that one out.[/i]

PMSL
😆

so is this thread just a huge troll, or are most contributors blanking the last two years of stw diet advice?

AndyP wins an award for the best contribution to this thread!

But also as I said above, carbs have their place and these athletes use them.

Aah, so what you mean is that you refuted my comment, came up with an outlandish statement, and then can't back it up and actually agree with what I said 🙄

if I eat a sausage, a little bit later I do a poo. But if I eat a poo, I don't do a sausage. Work that one out.

Take a step back and squint your eyes at the poo. Looks like a sausage, right?

[i]Take a step back and squint your eyes at the poo. Looks like a sausage, right? [/i]
well, yes. But a veggie sausage, with all sweetcorn and that.

so is this thread just a huge troll, or are most contributors blanking the last two years of stw diet advice?

I think most people are taking the piss out of tomhughes for being a self aggrandising arse. Regardless of him being right or wrong.

[i]so is this thread just a huge troll, or are most contributors blanking the last two years of stw diet advice?[/i]

I'll have a go.

Seems to me, that for a very long time, the advise was to eat a low fat diet and count the calories.

Ignoring for a moment, what big business did upon this advise.

The low fat thing seemed to be based on a study by a bloke called Ancel keys.

Fast forward to the now, and it seems that Keys suggestion that high fat was bad. Was wrong.

So, it now appears to this member of the general public.
That we need to choose low GI foods, reduce the amount of sugar we consume AND do some moderate exercise.
There appears to be no need to obssess over each and every calorie.
The provinence of your food may be important.

If you're a race head, then you will need to adjust your diet to support your increased activity.

If you try high intensity activities for prolonged periods of time on too few fast carbs.
This may not bode well for your body.

Please feel free to correct me, you medical types.
I'm all ears / eyes, whatever.
🙂

I tried iDave and failed, I have however made a few changed, deliberate effort to not eat carbs with meals and it's had an impact certainly.

Breakfast is always protein, usualy egg or fish based as they require the least effort to make something palatable in the mornings. If there's no time I've found 'milk protein'/'calcium ceasinate' protein shakes work just as well, don't know if they follow milk with an insulin spike but its got to be better than cereal and milk.

Snacking I found I couldn't avoid, but where previously I ate barely any fruit but lots of chcoclate/harribo/biscuits I now regulalry eat an apple mid morning instead of reaching for the hob-nobs. Not idave, but an improvement.

Lunch and dinner I've almost completely abbandoned bread/pasta/rice/potatoes and subbed in either low carb alternatives, veg mash, just more veg or beans, or a combination of all 3, veggie bean mash is a new favourite! I now find carbs realy stodgy and can't eat more than a handfull of rice or a small potato.

Over time it gets easier and easier to skip out carbs, I'd hazzard a guess that cutting out ~150g a day just from meals cuts out the between meals cravings a fair bit.

Come on Tom.

This is STW, you've got to have a tough skin.

Don't let the others put you off.

I'm reading your posts.

The only thing I would add, to what seems like obvious commen sense above, is that the point of Atkins in my eyes is to proove that carbs aren't actually required at all.

I can understand the logic of pro atheletes using carbs as a tool to reload glycogen reserves & aid recovery, however this would break the keytosis cycle of someone wishing to burn only fat as a fuel - and lead to insulin spikes.

Not a problem for someone with minimal body fat reserves, but different for fatties.

Tom, id love to hear more of your experience and thoughts on the subject should you have time to write them down. Perhaps via email?

SJ78

I for one am getting your point.
You're experimenting, while trying to achieve a body weight goal.

As others have pointed out.
There is more than one way to get weight off.

Each to their own.
Good luck
🙂

Having read a lot about this and living with a dietician, I'm with Tom.

Having said that, no carbs is very, very difficult. Cutting out rice, potatoes and sweets etc is fine and obvious, but there are plenty of carbs in most fruit and vegetables including peas, carrots, beans etc.

Low fat is generally acknowledged to be bad though now. There are essential fats; there are no essential carbs.

It continuously intrigues me as to why people assume that dietary fat = body fat.

The countries which have the highest fat intakes (Japan, Switzerland, France) have some of the lowest levels of heart disease.

When exercising at a high level though, it seems carbs are required as they can be absorbed and "burnt" much faster than other energy sources. You can only "burn" fat at a fairly low rate and that rate is not high enough to ride say a mountain stage of the tour - however well you body has adapted.

Also bear in mind that that 2.2lb (1kg) of body fat contains 9000 calories so losing 1kg of body fat a week is still a pretty big effort and about the most which is sustainable and healthy. Adult intake is 2000-2500 calories a day so that gives you an idea of why losing body fat is difficult!

the thing I don't get is why you want to **** about "experimenting" with your diet. Eat healthily, make sure you exercise, and you'll be fine.

I'm saying this as a diabetic, so I'm always working out if I've had enough carbs, too much sugar etc. Why you'd do it if you don't have to is beyond me.

I tried iDave and failed

So now you do iDave plus an apple - that's how it appears from your description?

I get the whole fat thing, but if your greedy and eat to much fat you will still put weight on?

It continuously intrigues me as to why people assume that dietary fat = body fat.