Riding on Low (zero) carb diet

the thing I don’t get is why you want to **** about “experimenting” with your diet. Eat healthily, make sure you exercise, and you’ll be fine.

Im experimenting to find out for myself fact from fiction and see what my body/metabolism is capable of.
Plus I have alot of weight to lose on order to reach my personal target, so, for those that missed it the first 3 times, and despite great success with the balanced diet & lifestyle that everyone is raving about, im going to turn my metoblism into a purely fat burning machine in order to a) see if that is even possible b) reach goal on time

Years ago everyone was told to “go to work on a egg”. Then there was a study in the 70’s saying that they were the work of the devil, high in fat and cholesterol so avoid like the plague. Far better to have cereal.

The 70’s were around the time that choloesterol was first linked to heart disease. There was lots of mis-information at the time that the culprit was dietry fats – and unfortunately this stuck in the nations minds.
I forget the scientists name that discovered the cholosterol link, but even he came out recently saying essentially ”I never said it was linked to what we ate”

Wasn’t having a pop Slimjim, it’s just that I have to think about this stuff so I don’t, you know, die and that.

Suppose I’m jealous that I don’t have the luxury of being able to see what happens if I don’t eat carbs.

The 70’s were around the time that choloesterol was first linked to heart disease. There was lots of mis-information at the time that the culprit was dietry fats – and unfortunately this stuck in the nations minds.

And Kellogg’s has been reaping the rewards ever since 😉

I’ve idaved and it worked for me. I did eat carbs when I was actually out on the bike every now and again – as the great dave suggests.

I don’t do idave all the time, but the principles of it work for me. Much more likely to come home and have a bowl of beans and some tuna than I am to sink a bowl of spaghetti these days. I have a very physical job and without question a bean/fish/veg breakfast keeps me going for much longer than cereal or toast.

Perhaps the most important thing I find in anything like idave is the fact that it just makes you think about your intake – and that in itself is a good thing.

I had a massive furniture order on between early December and late February which meant that I was generally too tired to get much cycling in. I have a tendency to eat junk when i feel like that but i was quite careful to keep up the proteins and minimise the carbs and it seems to have kept the weight off and kept me feeling healthier. Not to go into too much detail – but my innards just feel so much better too.

As people have said – whatever works for you. It’s good that you’re doing what you’re doing but you’ve also got to enjoy life too.

See now I’m confused.

Tom and others seem to be categorically stating that carbs and insulin are totally responsible for weight gain and high fat has no down sides.

Yet a quick look at pubmed gives loads of very recent research on high fat diets being linked to obesity and diabetes (even very recent ie 2012).

And a paper has been presented today to the Society for Endocrinology linking high fat diets to, among other things, heart disease.

I just don’t think that the science is as clear cut as some may believe.

Quite like the look of these, will try for Cheshire Cat this weekend

http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/nutrition/The-Best-Energy-Bar-Ever.html

They look good.

31g carbs, 14g fat, 10g protein per serving which equates almost perfectly with the 55%, 35% 10% guidelines.

Nobody corrected my post.

I couldn’t have got all that, correct ?, did I ?.

( I ask only in an attempt to get my own understanding correct )

Reminds me of something I read somewhere ( so I could be wrong) about breakfast. Years ago everyone was told to “go to work on a egg”. Then there was a study in the 70’s saying that they were the work of the devil, high in fat and cholesterol so avoid like the plague. Far better to have cereal. The nation bought it hook, line and sinker. Who funded the studies? Kellogg’s don’t know about you lot but if that’s true I’d call that a master stroke.

Who do you think funded the ‘Go To Work On An Egg’ campaign? Oh, the Egg Marketing Board…

I’d call that, erm, an advertising campaign. 😉

Eggsactly.

I’ve done a fair amount of research into this and lost 26lbs in the last 10 weeks on a low carb diet.

The problem with carbs is that the body is very efficient at converting them to energy, so if you are fairly sedentary your blood glucose will rise more quickly than the glucose can be burnt up by the muscles. I think I read the total amount of glucose in your blood is only 1 teaspoon.

Once your blood sugar rises your body releases insulin to remove the excess glucose which it stores as fat, your blood sugar then drops and it is easier for your body to crave more carbs rather than to burn the fat it has just stored, this cycle repeats and you get into a vicious circle of craving sugary foods/carbs. Since I have been on a low carb diet I’ve not had these cravings and felt a lot better.

However I must say I don’t see any problem in having carbs before/during stenuous exercise, in fact I think this is a good thing. Your body will be using the glucose faster than it is converted from the carbs so it shouldn’t get stored as fat. Taking carbs means there is less risk of wasting your muscles away.

So the good news is I think that you can stuff in all the jelly beans/donoughts etc. you have been cutting out throughout the week with no consequence to your weight.

Just my opinion

Body Builders use low carb diets to cut before a competition. The one thing they will tell you if you are taking in very low carbs is that you should NOT carry out any cardio or high intense activities.

So Mountain biking or Cycling and Low Carb Diets do not mix.

Body Builders use low carb diets to cut before a competition. The one thing they will tell you if you are taking in very low carbs is that you should NOT carry out any cardio or high intense activities.

So Mountain biking or Cycling and Low Carb Diets do not mix.

Mate plays golf with Xavier Rush…He’s on a carb free diet and plays a bit of rugby and maybe gets a bit of advice off nutritionists…seems to work for him!

PSA: tonight’s Horizon, bbc2 9pm

21:00–22:00
Horizon
2011-2012, The Truth about Fat
11/15. Surgeon Gabriel Weston learns the truth about why so many people are piling on the pounds.

I shall be watching that and will be particularly interested to see if thyroid disease is mentioned. 🙄

Don’t take you heart rate above L2 (fat burning zone).

“fat burning zone” is a myth for lazy lard-arses who can’t be doing with working up a sweat. L2 doesn’t burn fat, it uses glycogen from your liver, just very very slowly.

Dissenters – MTFU

Ok ok, Firstly can I apologise for my comments regarding my qualifications. Despite what you might think I did not put that in to big myself up or say that no ones opinion is valid. I included that out of frustration that people seem to think I’m talking rubbish and have nothing to back it up.

Do you know why I bother posting on forums? Its because I want to help, I want to make you healthier and fitter and better faster athletes. I want to do it with no gain for myself, I actually coach for free because I love it so much I couldn’t even think about charging despite having all the qualifications.

Yes, I made a mistake in what I said about no carbs. What I meant to say is that joe bloggs who isn’t that active does not need carbs, not a single one. The body happily makes them no problem.
Athletes don’t necessarily need them either, but they can help in recovery as the body is slower at repairing muscles and replacing glycogen without them.

Either way, thank you to those who have seemed interested. There is a lot to be learned in this so I urge you to read on. We are only given one body and we are lucky to live in the developed world. Do you best to take care of the only life you are going to have. Good luck.

How do you cope on the big sportve rides when you arrive at one of the multiple food stops and theres all the sandwiches and cake you could ever want but you cant have any????

I dont do sportives, but the last one by mum did had a selection of nuts at the food stop!

That was quite an interesting programme, particularly with investigations on twins. Wasn’t really prepared for watching the surgery though. 😯

So much that we don’t know isn’t there? Was this programme a one-off I wonder?

Do hope it’s on i-player cos I missed the last 10 minutes, wee snooze naughty me!

Athletes don’t necessarily need them either

Define athletes? I work in nutrition, with a wide cross section of sports up to pro level and there are many competitive situations where taking carbs on board is pretty much essential if you want to be successful. I agree with most of what you’re saying, but not that carb intake isn’t necessary for ‘athletes’.

nick3216 – I think quite a few experts would disagree with you.

Personal experience – 2 months of training pretty much exlusively l2 rather than my usual ‘go for a ride’ has definitely improved my flat out times over my test loop.

Should I really be listening to dietary advice from people who have lost 5 stone?

Given that the Horizon programme didn’t meet with the ‘it’s all the fault of carbs’ school of thought and even had the audacity to talk about high fat foods causing obesity, what conclusions can be drawn?

That the researchers involved were applying bad science?

That the programme itself presented the facts badly?

That it was all a PR stunt by cereal manufacturers?

That perhaps you can get fat from other foods but carbs?

That the issue is rather more complex than some believe?

Although I’m being quite flippant, I am seriously asking for clarification, especially from Tom who seems the most qualified to comment on any mistakes the researchers have made.

How I smile when I see folks state there’s a direct link between eating carbs and putting on weight. Irrespective of the source, if energy in>energy out you’ll put on weight. As long as that energy in comes from a ‘balanced’ diet you’ll be fine. The carb link, I suspect, comes from their deliciousness: folks eat more than they need anytime they touch the delicious, comforting strands of nicely cooked pasta.

I’m looking forward to watching the rest of last night’s Panorama. The camera work did look like the naked chef does surgery though, lots of odd angles and ECUs.

Irrespective of the source, if energy in>energy out you’ll put on weight

But Tom, who is highly medically qualified seems to not agree, he stated yesterday that

Fat doesn’t make you fat and it doesn’t give you heart disease (I should know this one!)

And calorie excess isn’t what makes you fat, its all about your hormones’.

Pretty categoric that you can eat as many calories as you like from fats and it wont make a jot of difference.

Tom.

Glad we didn’t lose you.

Stick with it.

We’ve got it all here.

Those who want to learn.
Those who think they know.
Folk who can’t shake the 5 a day mantra and all the other, seemingly, misinformation that has been propogated in the media.
And we have lots of people half quoting Mr Twain, regarding moderation

That perhaps you can get fat from other foods but carbs?
Maybe this helps ?.

That the issue is rather more complex than some believe?

I believe that its not all fully understood, mapped out yet.
However, I think theres enough info now for people to spot the culprit (Sugar) and try to re-educate the masses.
Issues appear to arise, as Tom pointed out in an earlier post.
It would seem that there are elements of the community who are not moving at the same speed as others on this matter.
This, may be down to commercial influences…..

EDIT:
Oh, btw. I have also read that, what carbs you don’t eat ( OP claims to be on a very restricted quantity of carbs, self imposed )
You body will make.
I’ve read that the body may be able to produce upto 200g of carbohydrate a day.
Whether these be fast or slow carbs, I do not know.

Might be worth distinguishing in discussion, the difference between Fast carbs and slow carbs
rather than just referring to Carbs ?.

Firsly idave – yes it depends on how you define athlete, BUT as I stated, carbs are not necessary but they do help in the right place. I could still train a session without any carbs, or any carbs to follow it. But I may be in the best condition to do the next session.
Take yesterday for example –
4.5 hours on the bike, straight to the track for a 5 x 2k session.
Carb intake in the day leading up to the session was 0. No carbs taken in during the bike (MCT oil only), I only had carbs in the post training period and that consisted of a carb/protein shake and then a sweet potatoe with dinner. That finished at 9pm last night, this morning I feel fantastic. Which is lucky as I am going out on the bike for 3 hours soon with an international triathlete who is going to make me wish I had rested up for the last few days!

Going back to the points mentioned above. Yes at some point energy in> energy out causes you to accumulate fat, but it is the cause of this which is key. It is generally driven by Insulin. When you have a carb or sugar meal you get tonnes of insulin, whose job it is to clear the blood of sugar, but also fat and protein. The other job it does is to act as gatekeeper at the fat tissue. When you have high insulin levels there is a block of fat coming out of the fat tissue, only fat will go in. Therefore you will accumulate fat.

Whilst insulin levels are high you cannot use your internal fat stores, however starved you become. Therefore you body will find other energy sources. It will make you hungry so you bring more energy in, it will in some extreme cases break down tissues to provide protein for energy, all with your fat stores happily preserved!

SO, the reason I don’t train on carbs, the reason I don’t have anything to eat before a 4-5 hour bike in the morning is simple, I don’t want to switch off my primary energy source which is my internal fat stores.

And this is why I eat a diet high in fat, I provide my body with what it needs, fat for energy and hormone production, protein for muscle.

The key point is though, how long does this fat blockade go on for after you have a high GI meal? Evidence suggests that this can last from 2 hours (for very insulin sensetive athletes) to 2 days!

So for you obese fat person, they eat a pack of sweets, their insulin is then raised for 2 days, for that 2 days they are FORCED by their body to eat the energy it requires, any increase over that energy requirment (i.e. when they have a big meal at night when they don’t need the energy) and they will accumulate fat.

Exercise increases insulin sensetivity, so goes along way to reducing this blockade time.

Oh and a second point, going back to all the stuff about fat making us fat. No fat does not make us fat, fat with sugar does though. The american diet is more sugar than it is fat with all the burger buns etc. But everyone has overlooked the carbs and gone straight to the fat because thats the thing thats high in energy density.

Oh and note about the program on last night, I didn’t watch it so I didn’t comment. But a Prof friend of mind who actually spends his day researching this stuff was very embarissed about how bad the science was, there is also a significant question about who funded the show etc. as mentioned above.
Once again it is the big companies who are driving the scare mongering and are essentially killing us.

tom, you can’t use what you did yesterday as evidence that ‘athletes’ don’t need to ingest carbs. If you knew you were going to counter repeated attacks from a bunch on rolling roads at the end of a 190km stage, would you still not eat carbs, before/during rides? As you say carbs ‘help in the right place’ which is quite valuable if you want to be successful in many sports.

(I’m riding with a 2 x world champion today if you think that sort of thing gives my view more credibility)

I do agree with 99.9% of what you’ve said though, which doesn’t happen that often on here.

anyone who still thinks that all calories have a similar effect on weight loss or weight gain should watch this. It’s quite long but it will cure you from thinking that the human body is a simple oven with no feedback loops. Skip to 1’03” if you have a busy day ahead counting calories.

DT78 – it’s not about your times, it’s about your weight. How has that changed?

Not being argumentative, genuinely interested and seeking more information and context.

I have only kick started weight loss by adding more L3 and L4 to my riding.

Sorry, idave, I think we are thinking on the same lines but I’m not explaining myself very well. I completely agree with you, its just that difference between vital necessity (i.e. your body wouldn’t function without it) and your body wouldn’t function optimally without it.

Good stuff.

SO, the reason I don’t train on carbs, the reason I don’t have anything to eat before a 4-5 hour bike in the morning is simple, I don’t want to switch off my primary energy source which is my internal fat stores.

So, I’m not so mental, going for a moderate intensity bike ride.
(Not a training ride)
First thing in the morning, with just water.
And I am right not to think I need to stuff my face with Haribo before I set off.

So essentially Horizon was bad science and duplicity with commercial interests.

Is this true of most (all) the research that identifies problems with low carb/high fats diets or is there still a lot of stuff that we ‘might’ be getting wrong.Or the recent stuff linking high fat diets with excessive imflamation and heart disease. Many claim to have no conflict of interest or funding implications.

Also, I wonder if in 20 years time forums will be discussing the mistakes science was making regarding sugars and insulin.

Any way, must be off to work, thanks for the info.

Question here.

So, you do your morning ride, fueled by your bodily fat reserves and glycogen stored in the muscles ?

Then when you get back from your ride.
You do not carb up.

Does the body then re-charge your muscles with glycogen, by converting your body fat to glycogen ?.

I used to be coached and eat plenty of carbs “for fuel” I did OK – Sports class for XC, but just outside UK top 10 at 24hour solo. Managing weight was a problem.

Now I am not coached, and I have changed my eating regime.

I eat a low GI breakfast, mixed carb/protein/fat lunch – typically tuna/pasta/mayo, or sushi & rice. these are the only simple carbs I eat. I don’t eat carbs after dinner (the midday meal to avoid north/south confusion). I have cut out all sugary snacks, instead eating nuts or fruit.

Result? My energy levels feel better than ever. My endurance is better, and I can ride farther, faster. I don’t get bloat from carbs during long rides. My top speed is also better. And my weight is stable not all over the place.

If I get cravings they tend to be for high protein foods or high fat savoury foods. I never crave sweet or starchy things. If I do eat simple sugars Ive noticed it screws my appetite for the next two days, making me feel hungry even though I don’t need the calories.

I don’t think this is actually new stuff. Re-reading coaching books from the 80s for roadies long race snacks would quite often have a much higher protein content than the scientifically prepared expensive supplements of today.

I don’t think one solution suits all, and what works for me may not work for others.

I tend to concur with Tom and samebutlighter on this topic.

I don’t eat carbs after dinner (the midday meal to avoid north/south confusion)
Easy now with your regional stereotyping. I’ve never heard a southerner call their midday meal dinner, and most of the northerners I know don’t call it dinner either. At school, certainly, it appeared to be the thickos who used ‘dinner’ instead of ‘lunch’.

I tend to concur with Tom and samebutlighter on this topic.

I hold little doubt that iDave, Tom and SBL are correct to the extent of each one’s exerpience and knowledge.

So my question ^^^ is directed to any of them.

Easy now with your regional stereotyping

At school, certainly, it appeared to be the thickos who used ‘dinner’ instead of ‘lunch’.

PMSL 😆