Redundancy Advice: Acas and Legal Support?

Unfortunately I am due to be made redundant on the 31st Dec.

The process has been flawed since it started in April this year, finely with someone else now doing work I have been doing. The new head of the department is saying it needs more staff, not less, and has even tried to get the team moved to another part of the organisation (different leadership)

I have tried to appeal the decision internally, and literally the person leading the redundancy just shrugs his shoulders. The Director who was supposed to setup an appeal has delayed this further.

In desperation last week I went to Acas Conciliation. I have yet to hear from them.

Should I go legal at this stage or wait for Acas? My concern is that legal is monumentally expensive, and you are not guaranteed a positive outcome. Also if I go legal I think it will limit my opportunity of getting employment in my industry again as I live in a geographically remote part of the country.

I am due to get a redundancy payment. What would unfair dismissal settlements likely to be above this? I would actually prefer to keep working etc as my colleagues would like me to, but if I am made redundant half of me feels like I should try and get as much money as possible. If thats an extra £15k its not worth the stress. If its £50k + it might be.

Ta

I would have thought you would know what your redundancy pay would be so soon to you supposed redundancy date?

I would have thought you would know what your redundancy pay would be so soon to you supposed redundancy date?

Yes i know the value of my redundancy pay.

The case I am now making is that this is unfair dismissal.  So I assume that gets additional compensation above that of redundancy, but thats all the stuff I have no idea on, and its a very expensive question to ask a solicitor. (should I even have a case)

It would appear Acas and a tribunal is a free process. My assumption would be a lawyer gets you a better deal?

In before @tjagain suggests you talk to your union…

If you can show that the proper process has not been followed then you may be able to reach a negotiated settlement with your (soon to be ex) employer that goes beyond your redundancy payment. Do you think you are the only person wrongly affected or are there others? Going legal as a joint process might strengthen the case and reduce individual costs.

Unfortunately I was ‘selected’ as the one person to be made redundant.

Unfortunately no union. I did approach but they said I had to be a member before the issue started.

Why do you think you have a case for unfair dismissal?

If the company is resizing, gave you notice and pay what they owe, I doubt you would get far.

Unfair dismissal is very hard to prove and the payouts are rarely good. You might be able to negotiate a compromise agreement where they give you a bit more money in exchange for them not having to go through the entire redundancy process. If you are getting a reasonable redundancy payment I’d focus what happens next, pocket the money and move on.

Had the same thing before. Was told my team didn’t have sufficient worksteam. Reality was I was winning in the bulk of the practice’s work anyway and then it went to other teams. But in my past I have annoyed some head folk, so my number was going to be up at some point. Redundancy is just convenient. So I went and so did my team. Tough times including folk who then lost work visas and had a really short period of time to sell everything (house, car) etc and get out of the country.

My industry is incestuous and small, so had to suck it up and move on. In your position, you need to decide whether burning bridges now means burning a local area wide set of bridges.

If you are getting a reasonable redundancy payment I’d focus what happens next, pocket the money and move on.

This. The sooner you find a new job, the more of a bonus the redundancy payment becomes, rather than it just being used to keep your bills paid.

Unfair dismissal claims only pay you what you have lost in wages up to a capped amount.   Likely not to be much

Best bet IME is to wait until its all finalised and they have effed up proceedings and then threaten a tribunal to leverage an improved offer.

The process has been flawed since it started in April this year, finely with someone else now doing work I have been doing.

That doesn’t necessarily mean you’re not redundant.  If they employ n+1 people and need to reduce it to n then they can shuffle the work around.

In desperation last week I went to Acas Conciliation. I have yet to hear from them.

I suspect you’ll struggle with the holidays coming up.

Should I go legal at this stage

You could try?  You’d need to speak to a solicitor and give them all the facts though. So make sure you have all the e-mails and notes of meetings you’ll need.   Remember you’ll need ‘evidence’ , not just “…..said”, get anything you need written down in e-mails before you leave.  IF you have a case then they may capitulate quickly as fighting them is ruinously expensive for companies too.

My OH works in HR and the standard MO now is to send a GDPR subject access request.  The cost to a company of having to go through every cc’d e-mail, every document with your name on it, and then redact their/other peoples data them before sending them to you is ridiculous, hundreds of thousands of pounds, so they reach a settlement.

Also if I go legal I think it will limit my opportunity of getting employment in my industry again as I live in a geographically remote part of the country.

I’d potentially worry less about this.  Take your skills and apply them to a different industry if nesecary.

This. The sooner you find a new job, the more of a bonus the redundancy payment becomes, rather than it just being used to keep your bills paid.

But basically this.

The time and energy you’d need to put into it would be better spent on solving the problem of finding another job, not dragging out the process.

First off, sorry to hear that, shitty thing to be going through.

unfair dismissal is very hard to prove, it will cause you a huge bunch of stress trying to go down that route.

harsh reality is if there really isn’t a huge amount you can do unless its really clear they have not followed due process, if you are thinking of doing this, have EVERY engagement backed up in writing.  not chats / teams messages etc…  screenshot if you have to.

my advice, having been in your situation, your best bet is to look forward, take the money and focus on your future – use your energy on the next thing, shut this shit down as quickly and quietly as you can

of course, if you like a fight / think you are being diddled / aren’t stressed out by the whole thing, drag it out to see if you can get a few more k.  you probably could whether its worth the pain only you can decide

Redundancy is usually better than you’d get from un-fair dismissal, and is a stressful experience. Use this as an opportunity to go work for a new employer or have a short break from work.

Thanks for the advice.

It is a resounding move on and take the redundancy, which is what I was inclined to do. Certainly doesnt appear to be worth burning bridges with the local industry options I have.

its a fairly incompetent organisation. I have heard that they made one person redundant, then on their leaving do a Director turned up, apologised and said they had made a mistake.

Not sure I even want to keep working in an organisation where everyone says its not the right thing to do, but no one is prepared to take on 1 director who appears to back my senior line manager.

The whole team have ‘joked’, take your money, and then re apply for the job when it comes out in the new financial year !

Pretty sure you have to stump up the tribunal cost yourself these days before claiming it back if you win? Done to put people off. My Union will only take forward cases it has a high chance of winning now where as they may have tried at 50/50, 60/40 in favour in the past.

Only chance you’ll have of success is if you can prove your actual role is not redundant or if they didn’t offer you a similar job that was available. Parts of your work being given to others doesn’t count.

When I looked at it a few years ago, only about half of successful unfair dismisal claims were actually being paid out by the employer. I decided not to bother, its a lot of stress for a slim chance of success

take your money, and then re apply for the job when it comes out in the new financial year

^^ They’re probably right!

I don’t *think* you have any legal case at the moment, since (if I read the OP properly) you still have an internal appeal outstanding. In any case, I wouldn’t place much store on the legal angle unless your ‘selection’ is as a result of any ‘protected characteristics’ (race, religion, sexuality, etc.) – That would automatically be considered unfair and you may be able to provoke the employer to offer additional payment in return for a ‘Settlement Agreement’ (was ‘Compromise Agreement’).

Redundancy selection criteria must be objectively ‘fair’, but that doesn’t stop employers constructing several individually  ‘fair’ tests that serve to isolate a particular individual / group as being the only one(s) within the overlapping area on the Venn diagram of tests.

Worth remembering that the main remedy for unfair dismissal is that you get your job back :-/

£0.02.

While it’s an awful position to be in, especially this time of year, both times I’ve been made redundant something positive has come out if it within a couple of months, either a chance to try something I always fancied or a better work/life balance.

Sadly I’ve now got myself in a role where I’d bite their hands off for a redundancy package, but I’m probably older and with different responsibilities to the OP.

The whole team have ‘joked’, take your money, and then re apply for the job when it comes out in the new financial year !

a colleague did that, got the job too!

Redundancy selection criteria must be objectively ‘fair’, but that doesn’t stop employers constructing several individually  ‘fair’ tests that serve to isolate a particular individual / group as being the only one(s) within the overlapping area on the Venn diagram of tests.

This! What part of the process has been unfair to YOU. Maybe the process has been a bit rubbish but if the company can show they have followed a process and the result is you were selected I don’t think you will have a chance.

Where companies normally go wrong if NOT following their own process.

The whole team have ‘joked’, take your money, and then re apply for the job when it comes out in the new financial year !

Oh no, you wouldn’t want to do that… you want to work out your day rate and come back as a contractor ££££££££

I went through this about six years ago. I was working in a team of three and was the highest paid as I had joined at a time when the company was desperate for someone with my skills. The selection criteria were written to isolate me and were unfair in my opinion. My line manager was useless and didn’t even know the three people in his team. The process was botched but the legal advice I received (free one hour consultation) did not fill me with any confidence that I would win so I decided to leave it despite the bitter taste it left.

I found a new job relatively easily but had to accept a significant drop in pay. I was much happier in the new role and got some bonus’s when three customers followed me to the new company. The other two members of my team were both pissed off by the process and left within six months. The three of us going meant that the company lost their certification to sell the products we specialised in with hurt them financially.

Looking back now it was a good thing for me as I am much happier now as I work in an office with great colleagues whereas previously I was remote and met colleagues in person.

Should I go legal at this stage

A friend just spent £4.5k on fees fighting unfair dismissal. She still lost her job and in still unemployed, juts £4.5k less well off…

Oh no, you wouldn’t want to do that… you want to work out your day rate and come back as a contractor ££££££££

This sounds good.

Finish before Christmas, get the cash, kippers behind the radiator, Syonara chumps.

Legal advice for a redundancy would set you back £300-500 (based on my experience 3 years ago).

A successful unfair dismissal would result in you being re-employed (and thus losing any redundancy), or loss of earnings. If you get another job in 2 months, then that 2 months salary. Pay outs are also capped.

Your decision, but often taking the money (or saying you’ll go quietly if they up the offer by 20% or so) is the easiest option for all.

You are going to made redundant at the end of the year. Sorry to be blunt but that’s the reality. ACAS or going legal won’t change that.

I’ve been made redundant twice (hopefully for a third time but that’s another story) and it’s always been a very positive outcome so think about what you are going to do next and use any payoff to allow time to think about this.

Think of any payoff as an investment  of your time with your current employer and an opportunity. At then of the day it’s just business so nothing personal.

If you figure in that the value they pay you to go away and not complain in a settlement agreement is tax free, it could easily hit your 50K+ value in actual value. Have they given you figures yet?

I’ve been forced out of one business (settlement agreement – I was a Director) and in another I took voluntary redundancy (rejected three times but I kept persevering) – in both cases I took the money, moved on and found a new direction (eventually working for myself for 15 years) – what seems painful now will fade over time and as others have said, you are much batter off looking ahead and figuring out what to do next –

whilst the comment above about contracting is maybe tongue in cheek – I’d seriously think about it – once you’re gone, they might just miss you and need you back & contracting gives you more flexibility to do that on your own terms –

I have no advice. Just saying good luck, OP.