Reducing Stiction (Pike)

I’ve been trying to improve the small bump sensitivity of my 2018 Pike since getting it last year. Initially dropping pressure until it would bottom out on most rides, but following Will’s review of the Merida I went the other way; removed all the tokens and pumped it up a lot more, so it rides higher in the travel. This has helped a lot, but I still seem to have a stiction problem. If nothing else, this makes setting the sag in the attack position difficult.

If I just sit on the bike it will drop to around 20% reliably. However, if I then slowly stand up and move my weight forward, it wont move. In fact I can basically have all my weight on my hands and it hasn’t shifted. If I then bounce it it will shift to around 30% (but different each time) then tend to stay there and not move as I shift my weight about.

I’m assuming this is stiction, but is there anything I can do about it? Would low friction seals help, for example, or is that just a waste of time and money. I’m reluctant to send them off just as summer is starting so, if they need a service, I might just live with it over the summer and send them off in the winter. But I’d be interested to hear of anything I could try myself.

Isn’t that just air forks, unless you service them all the time so they’re always freshly clean and lubed?

I set fork sag by standing on the pedals with my elbow near a wall, then bounce up and down, let the fork settle, lean the elbow against a wall and slide the O-ring down. Note the % sag, then repeat a few times and take the rough average (ignoring anomalies where it’s settled in an odd position). Shock sag is super consistent in comparison.

If it’s sitting at 20% sag when seated that sounds about right for a large negative spring Pike and not too rad riding style!

The 2019 airspring helps a lot and is a cheap and easy upgrade. Otherwise new wiper seals and lower bath oil, checking the damper rod for stiction while the fork is apart.

Thanks. Maybe I’ll just live with it then. I was basically using the same method, but was annoyed that it wouldn’t settle in the the same place each time.

If it’s sitting at 20% sag when seated that sounds about right for a large negative spring Pike and not too rad riding style!

Yep, that’s me 🙂

I must say that it’s a lot better since following Will’s “advice” (thanks Will). These shipped with three tokens and I’d dropped the pressure right down to 55 psi to try to make them more sensitive to the small stuff. They’d sit closer to 30% sag when seated and I’d still rarely use all the travel. The small bump sensitivity was non-existent though, to the point where I’d struggle to see on the sort of fast (small) rock strewn tracks that I mostly ride. Since removing all the tokens and upping the pressure to 80 psi they feel so much better. They ride higher, smooth out the small bumps much better and feel much more supportive on the bigger hits. OK, I only used 80% of the travel yesterday, but I was just riding landrover tracks, so that’s fine.

If you really want rid of stiction then a coil spring is the answer

The 2019 airspring helps a lot

Thanks. I’ve heard of this, but they way they work with model years I’m not sure if I have it already ! Bought the fork in March last year. Is there an easy way to tell and am I right in thinking that a 130mm shaft is the same for 27.5 and 29 now?

fork juice 🙂

+1 lower leg service 👍

+1 DebonAir air shaft (i thought 2018 might have this already??).

Some good token tunig advice from Bird:

Scenario 1: You set your sag properly, and the forks feel great on the small stuff, but even moderate trails, rollers and berms are using all of the travel in the fork. Solution: Add token(s) & maintain fork pressure. Scenario 2: You’ve got the forks running sweet when they are deep into their travel, holding you up well and using their travel at just the right rate, but they feel harsh on the small stuff, and the bar buzz is killing you. Solution: Add token(s) & drop fork pressure.
Scenario 3: Your forks feel great at the start of the stroke, but you’re rarely reaching full travel, possibly as little as 50% travel.
Solution: Remove token(s) & maintain air pressure.
Scenario 4: In order to get a decent amount of travel from your forks you’re running them so soft that you have used 30%+ of your travel just getting to sag point.
Solution: Remove token(s) & increase fork pressure.

Tech Talk: Tuning Air Forks With Tokens

Few things to look for:

Sticker on the back says Solo Air (not debonair) would indicate a 2018 Debonair air spring
I think the gold debonair logo was missing from the forks stanchions until 2019 models
Manufacture date of < 10T8 (First 4 digits of the serial) so anything xxT7 or 01T8 > 10T8 would guarantee its a 2018 whereas anything after and you’re not so sure.

Finally, open up the air side and see if the air shaft seal head is grey plastic or red anodised Alu. The latter is 2019. You should be able to see this by removing the air top cap and fully compressing the forks. The red ano should be very visible if you shine a light into the leg.

TBH though this whole thread is basically avoiding the main issue, which is that all RS forks, and Fox too really can suffer from a lack of grease in the right place from the factory. I would recommend you open them up and grease the air spring even if you decide not to replace it for a 2019. While its open you can also check the air spring. If you don’t want to do that, remove the top cap and put maybe 1cc of engine oil (fully synthetic, 0W30 or 10W30) into the air side from the top. That will have the same effect, but on a less permanent basis.

Thanks Ben,

I remember last time I had them apart, struggling with that circlip. I was basically trying to push something up against a wavy washer to get the circlip back in. That thing was “definitely” grey/black plastic and not red Alu. I’m guessing that was the “air shaft seal head”. So, I guess that makes them 2018. Pretty sure they say Solo Air on the back too, but memory is not so clear on that one.

I think I’ll go for the 2019 spring, maybe some low friction seals while I’m at it and take the opportunity to slather grease liberally over everything 🙂

Thanks everyone for the comments. Quick and helpful advice all round. This place is amazing sometimes.

My 2019 Pike started off feeling lovely, but now has considerable stiction. The ‘zip tie past the stantion dust wiper seals’ tick makes ’em better again, which makes me think that the air spring needs a service (see separate thread). May I suggest you try the zip tie thing and see if you notice a difference.

My 2017s had the ‘new’ damper last year which was expensive, and the £40 Debonair air spring this year which wasn’t. Of the two, the air spring has made the biggest difference I can feel.

How come you want to wait until winter to get the forks serviced? Surely it’s better to get them done now so you can enjoy them through the summer?

I can definitely recommend low friction seals after fitting them to my Fox 32’s – the Push Ultra Low Friction seals made a huge difference but YMMV. I am a light rider though (~60kg without gear).

Do you clean the seals on a regular basis? It probably won’t make a huge difference but definitely won’t hurt.

Can you lower your front tyre pressure? It doesn’t solve the issue with the forks but will help smooth the ride out in the meantime.

I had this on my 66s. Tried everything including all the above. Turned out the new bushings were too tight, I honed them with a car brake cylinder honer and they were improved beyond measure.

There’s a lot of instances on forums of forks being tight out of the box. If you are into self-servicing, then you can test it by removing the seals and sliding the lowers onto the uppers in a work stand. They should fall straight off when you let go.

make sure the seals are greased and the sponge is soaked in oil. also make sure the lowers have oil in them too. That will make a massive difference to stiction if the fork needs serviced. If you take the air out the forks do they move smoothly?

In terms of fork performance a luftkappe make a massive difference on my original pikes. played about with pressures and tokens and came to the conclusion tokens are arse and make the spring curve/performace shit. I gave up on my pikes and bought a mattoc pro & IRT. Best performing fork I’ve ridden.

I have the same issue on my 2019 pikes. So unimpressed by their performance, been looking at coil conversions!

Will give them a proper service first and see if that helps. Good to hear i’m not alone!

Not so good for me, as I’ve just ordered the 2019 air spring in the hope that it will fix the problem 🙂

I’m not sure what you are doing in the way of pressures and tokens, but I would recommend trying the no tokens and higher pressure option as I found it much better. I’d been following advice that suggested the best way to improve small bump sensitivity was to add tokens and reduce pressure. This makes sense. Lower pressure should be softer, right? But take it too far and you are permanently riding deeper in the travel where it is designed to provide a lot of “support”. Pump it up a bit and you spend more time in that softer early part of the stroke.

I dare say that three tokens (which is what came in mine) works well for the average rider, but that’s just more proof that the average rider hits stuff a lot harder than I do 🙂

My forks started off with 2 tokens (140mm 29er). Rode fine but was not getting anywhere near full travel. Now riding without any tokens and it feels better and getting almost full travel on big hits. I need to run high pressure as i’m 105KG in kit. I’m sure this doesn’t help!

Mine just feel like it’s a lot of effort to get them to move freely. Pretty sure they’re under lubed so a service is in order…on a brand new fork!

Changing pressure won’t help stiction.

Changing pressure won’t help stiction.

No, good point. I’m conflating two issues I had with mine. Getting mine to ride a bit higher does seem to have helped a lot with small bump sensitivity, but I’ve still got this stiction issue that I’d like to resolve.

Changing pressure won’t help stiction

Actually it will. Striction comes from three places ignoring the damper for a second:

Air seals
Bushes
Oil seal (aka fork seal)

The latter two are not effected by air pressure, however your air seals are. The increased pressure increases the amount of force the air seals exert on the stanchions/air shaft as when you increase the pressure the air seals are compressed harder against the fork walls. Reducing pressure will ease off the compression of the air seals and reduce stiction. It’s not the only factor of course but its there.