rear mech issues

well as my mate had suspected, it looks like a wheel/axle width issue.

he’s lent me one of his wheels with a 9sp cassette and theres no issue. put mine back on and it skips again. the difference in widths is minimal but ‘just enough’ to cause an issue.
these 2 pics are my wheel…..

these 2 are my mates wheel…..

you can see the chain is close to the stays on mine which is causing it to ride up on the cassette, trying to get onto the next cog up. mech is at its max, same with the other mech i tried.

i guess theres nothing i can do to ‘widen’ the axle a mm or so, or at least the bit from cog to the part the dropout sits on?
so will this frame only work properly with a different wheel?

thanks

were any of these removed from your wheel?
– cassette
– freehub
– axle end caps/spacers
– axle

it’s possible that one of them isn’t fitted right and that has moved the position of the cassette out slightly

the bike is new to me, ive never ridden it yet. once acquired i stripped it, had it resprayed and went 1x.
the only thing ive changed on the wheel is the cassette because this was happening on the old cassette too.

i dont know my way around wheel innards, can i take it to bits and insert a spacer or anything?

Looks like QR? Is it cup and cone bearings? You might have the axle protruding more on the non drive side than it should be.

Axle protruding more on NDS wouldn’t make any difference. Looks like you need a small washer between the DS cone and locknut to increase the distance between 11T sprocket and dropout.

Axle protruding more on NDS wouldn’t make any difference. Looks like you need a small washer between the DS cone and locknut to increase the distance between 11T sprocket and dropout.

thats definitely the distance that needs widening, is it possible? ive got absolutely no idea how these things come apart (or more importantly go back together) 😀

What model is the hub?

American Classic

Actually @sillyoldman is correct now that I think about it and his solution should work.

Edit: You could test for this by seeing if your mates wheels are a tighter fit between the drop outs, with the QR loose of course.

You could test for this by seeing if your mates wheels are a tighter fit between the drop outs, with the QR loose of course.

i think even if it wasnt, theres plenty of spring in the frame to be able to take 1mm-ish of washer.
question is, how does it all come apart for me to do this and what size/sort of washer would i need? any youtube vids?

thanks

Just looked at that hub and seems it’s sealed bearings so above advice doesn’t apply. When you replaced the cassette did you notice if there was a spacer behind it?

there isnt no, i took it off and checked it again today…..

You have tried loosening the high limit screw and adjusting the indexing haven’t you?

screw is screwed out waaaay past its top limit, and the cable isnt connected to the mech. so the mech is as far over as its possible to be. its a purely ‘untensioned’ mech.

Beats me then, theres normally enough range with the H limit screw to pull the chain off into the frame.

so the problem might have already been there there when you first got the bike?

that could mean previous work on it left it that way.

assume the cassettes are fitting securely with no play – so they can probably be ruled out.

Have you tried physicaly pulling the rear mech across to see if the chain will stay on the cog. Could be a chain tension/line issue with the 1x convertion. Is the chain long enough?

so the problem might have already been there there when you first got the bike?

that could mean previous work on it left it that way.

possible, and that as it was 3x then that smallest cog may never have been needed so problem not identified.

assume the cassettes are fitting securely with no play – so they can probably be ruled out.

yes, happened on original worn cassette, and also happens on this second one which has been off and on a few times for double checks.

Have you tried physicaly pulling the rear mech across to see if the chain will stay on the cog.

yes i think i have, cant remember now if that proved anything one way or another so should maybe try that again now i know the problem is the wheel.

Could be a chain tension/line issue with the 1x convertion. Is the chain long enough?

new chain set to the original chains length which goes round the mech and largest cog easy enough. the 1x conversion is just using original crankset and taking 3 rings off and replacing middle one with an oval ring. which is in the same place as the original middle ring so should be bob on.

the telling thing for me is that it works with a different wheel but not this one, and that there is a difference in spacing between the wheels. mine is almost touching the chainstays and looks like its too close.

thanks

Looking at the manual,link here there does seem to be a couple of spacers on the drive side which may have been assembled wrongly in the past. Might be worth stripping it down to have a look.

good spot. impressive that American Classic still keep their manuals online even thought they shut down three years ago: http://www.amclassicsales.com/amclassic.com/en/help/manuals

make sure it is the right hub though: http://www.amclassicsales.com/amclassic.com/download/manuals/identifying_rear_mtb_hub.pdf

the rim looks like a Stans ZTR, so i’d guess that it is a Stans wheelset with OEM hubs from American Classic? so some details like model number and freehub colour may not match.

if the hubs are a version of the Terrain hub it is possible that the end caps have been mixed up. they are 11.0mm on one end and 9.2mm on the other and the side they go on varies with the freehub. having them the other way round would move the hub across by 1.8mm.

this is the manual for the Terrain: http://www.amclassicsales.com/amclassic.com/download/manuals/terrain_overhaul.pdf

another sign to look for first is if the rim is closer to the right seatstay than the left side. (assuming it is true). flipping the wheel can help compare as that will reverse the gap. if you try that then shift to the small sprocket to keep the mech and chain away from the disc.

cheers chaps, very helpful.

ive measured the distance from rim to frame, reversed and re-measured. all seems central and as it should be.

as per the manual link, ive identified the serial number which begins with an A, so from what all i can tell that just means its a 9/10 body not a 10/11 body.

the pic to me looks like the very first top hub in your first link, would you agree?

thanks

Yes, it looks like the 225 hub which is the manual I linked to. The one with the drive side spacers. Easy enough to pull the axle out and have a look, if someone has put both spacers inboard of the freehub then that would shift the cassette across towards the frame or if they have left them out altogether it would have the same effect. You could even try adding an extra spacer/washer on the axle at the drive side end to try and shift it as long as it leaves you enough threads for the nuts at the other end. Comparing your photo with the one in the manual, you do seem to have a bit more axle showing on the NDS than the one in the manual. Those spacers could account for that.

yes – could be missing that spacer between the dust seal and the freehub

here’s a good photo of the NDS should look: https://clee-cycles.co.uk/56550b73e4b0c763614835ec.jpg

well, time for an update, and happily its a good update! id been ready to give in, accepting that i wont get to ride it this summer, bloody bike, just cant get it to shift properly, am i going to have to buy a whole new cassette/mech/shifter/chain? why oh why oh why??

my mate came round to have a look, and he was baffled too. changed mechs, changed spacers between cassette rings, kept checking alignment with his home-made tool, it all just left us scratching our heads. solve one issue and it was shit elsewhere.

then he just asked if id changed the cassette lockring. no idea, why would that matter anyway? he said that he’d heard of it before, and that lockrings can be the wrong sort, so i went looking through my box of trinkets. sure enough another lockring. the one on the bike was a 105 lockring, the one in my box had a number that started with M and was a little more domed rather than flat, so we guessed it may be more suitable and just changed it in hope really.

aaaaaand bingo! i owe him a pint or two for that, id never have thought of it! 😀

anyways, for those of you that can remember this from a few months ago i thought you may be interested in what the solution was.

thanks