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Life is fragile. RIP.
Poor little scrap, so much life in front of her. RIP.
Oooft, so young.
18 is no age. So sad.
Poor lass, awfully sad.
That's awful.
Bloody hell what a tragedy. RIP
Seems no one knew she was no longer in the race! How?
Edit It took 150 minutes to find her!!
https://bsky.app/profile/trickydickybe.bsky.social/post/3l5lxfot3772d
Think that tweet is wide of the mark, she crashed during the junior road race, not the time trial. I don't know any other details of the crash though, but seems like something has gone wrong not to find her.
Terrible loss of life.
My auntie who lives in Switzerland told me about this dreadful accident (it was on their news).
What an absolute tragedy. So young, talented and with a whole life ahead of her
R.I.P
That 'Cycling Highlights' You Tube channel seems to be solely about sensationalism, especially if it concerns being critical of the UCI if any of their other videos are anything to go by. I don't claim to know the precise timelines, or whether anything it suggests is accurate or not, but I don't think I'd be relying on it for unbiased reporting either.
What Nickc said. It felt like it was sensationalising a tragic event to get a dig in at David Lapartient/UCI. Some of the criticism may be valid but it felt like he was clinging shit against the wall to see what would stick.
No radios is how the World Champs are set up, it they go hard at that point. If no one saw what happened then no one could have radioed anything in anyway. We have no information on whether Muriels injuries were such that it would have helped or not.
In the absence of any reporting I'll take what I can get.
How much time passed between her crash and being found seems like a fairly easy question to answer. Even if it's just to say, 'around 20 minutes'. Doesn't have to be to the second.
It seems to have taken a lot longer than 20 minutes. If it was almost 2 hours then I think heads need to roll.
They won't though. Time will pass, people will move on, and David Lappartient will continue to blame the riders for the crashes that seriously injure and kill them.
According to known figures, between 1971 and 1980, 4 cyclists died during races in which they took part, 5 between 1981 and 1990, 6 between 1991 and 2000. From 2001 to 2010, 9 cyclists died in competition, while in the last decade, between 2011 and 2020, 21 cyclists died. In 2023 and 2024, 4 cyclists died on the road while competing. This is a clearly incomplete list that doesn't take into account the many tragedies that have occurred in women's competitions and at youth level.
Here's a crazy idea. If the UCI don't want youtube channels saying mean things about them maybe they could try not behaving like ****s all the ****ing time.
Here’s a crazy idea. If the UCI don’t want youtube channels saying mean things about them..
One of things the channel criticises the UCI for is not making a statement regarding the crash until some time after the event. Other reporting has pointed out that the UCI have to co-ordinate press statements with the wishes of the family, the emergency services and the police and that take's time. It is, in all honesty, probably not callousness.
Sadly I suspect the UCI are keeping quiet because they screwed up and don’t want to admit liability or incriminate themselves in possible criminal proceedings…
Sadly I suspect the UCI are keeping quiet because they screwed up and don’t want to admit liability or incriminate themselves in possible criminal proceedings…
I can understand the UCI keeping as quiet as possible. What I can't understand is the cycling press seem to be happy to help them do so.
If she genuinely was alone and injured for 1.5 hours then I'm sorry but every cycling publication should be screaming and demanding answers on their front pages every day.
It seems everyone is happy to say, 'ongoing investigation' and hope that things have blown over by the time the details are released. The UCI obviously have a fair amount of clout in Switzerland so how the results are released will be interesting.
So yes, I'm reduced to posting videos from channels with an axe to grind as they are the only people talking about this. People can then turn around and say, 'That video is biased, nothing to see here.'
The silence around this whole thing is deafening.
I suspect they're keeping quiet as it's not in the families interest, or the need to ensure an effective review of the incident (legal or otherwise), for them to be releasing information until the full position is known and any implications of that have been determined. Speculation can be upsetting and harmful.
There will be a number of parties with potential liabilities (UCI, race organisation, Swiss team, etc) that means that it is entirely reasonable that statements are limited.
The silence around this whole thing is deafening.
That's not entirely true
https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/news/more-details-more-questions-about-death-of-muriel-furrer/
I can understand the UCI keeping as quiet as possible. What I can’t understand is the cycling press seem to be happy to help them do so. If she genuinely was alone and injured for 1.5 hours then I’m sorry but every cycling publication should be screaming and demanding answers on their front pages every day.
....
The silence around this whole thing is deafening.
It's far more likely that no cycling publication is willing to post speculative stuff about a tragedy that is still under investigation. Newspapers have been burnt by that sort of stuff many times in the past and found themselves in contempt of court or causing needless distress to friends / relatives at an already very upsetting time.
Screaming and demanding answers is thoroughly unhelpful, the answers don't come any quicker if you create a scene.
Never mind the UCI, have the police/coroner released any statements relating to any ongoing investigation?
The Nicola Bulley case pretty neatly sums up the effect of on-line speculation.
It's at best; creepy and weird, and at worst; actively harmful to relatives and friends
We're not talking about a mystery with lots of scope for conspiracy theories. We're talking about a fairly straight forward question. How much much time passed between the crash and Muriel being found.
If the answer turns out to be 1 - 2 hours then I find that horrific and mind-boggling. So far I've yet to see anyone anywhere suggest this wasn't the case.
At this point in time, the only people with any right to the full facts are the family, the organisers and whichever legal investigations are underway.
Frankly, until they are happy to release the true findings, everyone else should show some respect and keep their noses out.
I think if you spend any time browsing the chat forum you'll find there are plenty of threads about accidental deaths, murders, unexplained disappearances, ongoing court cases etc and on very few of those threads are there so many people looking to shame others into shutting up.
I think people who feel the need to put down those of us who are pointing out that if she wasn't found for 2 hours then that is absolutely batshit ****ing insane.
The same people who were in charge of safety in this race are still going to be in charge over the winter and probably into next spring, summer, autumn...
If no one makes some noise now and more young people die are you really going to be happy that your part in this was to tell people they were wrong for wanting to talk about it?
Neue Zürcher Zeitung reported that Swiss Air-Rescue (REGA) confirmed that its first helicopter mission in the Zurich area on Thursday had departed at 12:52 pm, more than an hour after the finish of the junior women's road race. It is believed – though it has not been confirmed – that Furrer crashed near Küsnacht with more than 30km left to race.
From @IHN linked item above, an hour before anyone got into looking mode with the cyclist being 30km from the finish. What were the commissaires up to? Did no one think we're missing a rider, where has she got to before then?
The UCI president doesn't come out of the situation in a good light.
From @IHN linked item above, an hour before anyone got into looking mode with the cyclist being 30km from the finish. What were the commissaires up to? Did no one think we’re missing a rider, where has she got to before then?
Having worked on many races including both Harrogate and Glasgow Worlds, no-one would ever think that. It's perfectly normal for riders to be dropped, ride around a bit, stop and spectate, get into the team cars, go off to the team bus...
I have no idea in this instance how long the rider was "missing" but there'll have been dozens of riders dropped from that bunch - many of them before it even left the neutralised zone - and probably riders scattered all over the course, some still "racing", some just cruising through to the feed zone where they can retire.
I think people who feel the need to put down those of us who are pointing out that if she wasn’t found for 2 hours then that is absolutely batshit **** insane.
That's a very big IF. No-one knows, least of all a bunch of folk on a cycling forum. Let the investigation happen, and IF it's true that she wasn't found for 2 hrs, well then there can be some fallout. On the other hand, IF she was found in 20 seconds, we can all go back to back to being experts in some other field.
I read that they were already on with the next race before they even looked for her. There was a time overlap with the races though. Sad case.
Having worked on many races including both Harrogate and Glasgow Worlds, no-one would ever think that. It’s perfectly normal for riders to be dropped, ride around a bit, stop and spectate, get into the team cars, go off to the team bus…
See, the way I read that is that, even if it's not what happened here, a rider crashing and not being noticed for hours is something that was always going to happen at some point.
If there is that little control of where racers are then someone crashing and no one seeing them was always going to happen at some point.
If it turns out to be what had happened here then I'd imagine there will be some changes (depending on how successful the UCI are at keeping it under wraps). If it's not then they can continue doing nothing until it actually happens.
Because even if it didn't happen this time, it will happen in the future.
And the organisers knew it was going to happen and did nothing. Except say 50% of crashes are riders fault.
Hate to tell you, but any competitor will quite happily risk their lives for the slightest advantage. It's the organisers job to account for this. Anyone who doesn't understand that should be nowhere near a governing body.
I had read some reports about the timings and had hoped they were horrible rumours, but they seem to be gaining momentum and credibility. Makes a sad event even worse. They can surely only improve the safety going forward
Many many years ago, I raced* XC MTB events but was hopeless and had many more DNFs than finishers (usually in the lowest 5% of the field).
At no point did I ever "report to" the organizer that I'd dropped out of the race. Frankly, I'm not sure how practical it would be to do such reporting back then.
Now, of course, electronics allow better tracking but such technology costs. Obviously, at the very highest level, it's easier to mandate use of technology or have sufficient human resources to be able to monitor riders safety. So, on the face of it, that would be a relatively "easy win" for the UCI to implement at the very highest level though it's probably too onerous to mandate for smaller events.
And, of course, similar concerns apply to other event types (long distance off road running events and/or open water swimming, or sailing, or motorsports)
* trundled around at the very back of the field
Getting away from this specific incident for a minute, here's what I would like a cycling publication to ask the UCI.
When you were performing a risk assessment for the rules for running an event, what mitigating factors did you put in place for the risk of a rider crashing and being badly injured but no one knowing?
What procedures do you have in place to ensure organisers are following the mitigation set out in your risk assessment?
It is simply not possible no one has thought of this as a possible scenario before. The question is, did they just ignore the risk or did the organisers of this event ignore the mitigation.
I know everyone hates the UCI but I'm not sure you could "risk assess" such an eventuality out of existence.
I assume doctors and paramedics were on standby but it isn't practical to remove all/the majority of the risk for events of this nature so, for instance, it isn't possible to put up crash netting on every corner of every descent (wrt Gino Mader).
If this '2hr' delay in "officials" action is correct, I'd be interested to know who first realized that Muriel was missing and when, and what they actually did at that point. (Presumably her DS/Team Manager or team mates would be the first to realise something was wrong, followed by her family or friends who were waiting for her at the finish line...)
Hopefully, they raised their concerns with the organizer very quickly and the organizers actually did something productive though with head injuries (speculation?), that may not have been fast enough but this is all for the police/coroner to investigate, not us...
It is simply not possible no one has thought of this as a possible scenario before. The question is, did they just ignore the risk or did the organisers of this event ignore the mitigation.
It's highly likely that no-one has thought of that scenario. There are dozens of motorbike marshals, police bikes, static marshals, TV bikes plus the team cars and the Commissaire vehicles plus people like the Moto Regulators (basically they control the movement of all vehicles within the race bubble), Blackboard Moto, medics, media cars and at least 2 helicopters. Plus the thousands of spectators although I accept this one was a very wet day and probably far fewer than would have been expected. The idea that a rider is "out of sight" of EVERYONE, I'm willing to believe has never been considered.
Every "peloton" of riders has at least 2 motos with it, one front one back. Often at least 4 motos. OK in the heat of action, multiple attacks and so on, it can be 15-20 seconds before a moto can get into any gaps but even then riders are visible in wing & rear view mirrors or up the road.
Even riders who are out the back have sweeper motos, the broom wagon and a rear of race Commissaire, taking the numbers of those who are no longer racing.
Rider 49, dropped, continuing to feed zone.
Rider 74, mechanical, getting into the broom.
Rider 12, crashed, getting into team car.
That info comes over radio all the time. The riders might not have radio but there'll be at least 6 race channels, often up to 12. Commissaire, Radio Tour, the moto marshals, static marshals, police band, TV channel....
I'm quite willing to believe that no-one has ever considered the idea that a rider could "disappear". Much the same way as no-one believed a plane could just vanish until MH370 managed exactly that.
If no one makes some noise now and more young people die are you really going to be happy that your part in this was to tell people they were wrong for wanting to talk about it?
If you talking about it would make any difference, you crack on.
The people who need to be talking about it are the relevant authorities and the UCI, establishing the facts so that it doesn't happen again. And that's assuming that finding her quickly would have changed the awful outcome.
I marshall and ride club events, much lower level than crazy legs, but yeah, riders go awol quite often. It's a pain in the arse. Easy to track them down on a 5 mile TT loop, less easy on a 200k audax.
And that’s assuming that finding her quickly would have changed the awful outcome.
There's a thing called the "Golden Hour" in emergency medecine. I'm sure emergency medics would state that Ms Ferrur's odds of survival would be better if she were found in this period.
It would appear that event safety at all levels of cycling needs a radical overhaul with officials ensuring all competitors are accounted for and competitors/teams sanctioned for failing to check-in after finishing/abandoning.
Having just read the Blick timeline, I'd say the organisers have done everything they practically could have, short of starting to track riders every movement, but trackers add an additional cost, require monitoring, and on what is a fairly tight event are likely to cause more issues than they solve.
Having been involved with many events, unless there is some specific reason to be concerned about a participant being missing (such as their team/family raising a concern), the time you would start to be concerned is when you have a DNF not accounted for, and given the timeline, that would appear to be when Muriel was found.
You could argue a concern could have been raised after the missed split point, and maybe it was, but it could easily end up with nobody knowing or being able to do anything. Organiser would try contacting the team/support if none of the officials or vehicles had seen anything, but the team may be busy with other riders, and just assume the rider was making their own way back, or had been assisted by somebody else.
If every organiser triggered a search before they were confident a participant was missing, then there would be a lot of wasted searching done, as 99% of the time, the participant will likely have given up, and just not bothered telling anybody.
I'm aware the 3 peaks CX made an example of three guys who went AWOL a few years ago. They make a very big thing about making sure everybody was accounted for, with very clear briefings that if you retire for any reason, make sure you notify an official. They had mountain rescue out searching the segment where 3 riders were last checked in, just for the riders to eventually be contacted sitting in a pub. And that is not uncommon. I've even seen organisers getting an earful of abuse for phoning emergency contacts, as the organiser should have been telepathic enough to know that the participant had retired, despite not being told.
But on the flip side, fell running went through a major change of attitude a while a go, due to an incident where the organisers had gone home, and were contacted several hours later by a concerned wife asking if they knew where her husband was. He was eventually found down a banking just out of sight of the marked route, having been missed by the sweepers. The organisers knew he was a DNF, however they had just assumed he'd given up, made his own way home, and didn't bother making any enquiries.
If every organiser triggered a search before they were confident a participant was missing, then there would be a lot of wasted searching done, as 99% of the time, the participant will likely have given up, and just not bothered telling anybody.
The UCI likes fines. If they started fining people who didn't let anyone know they'd retired in a reasonable amount of time then this would quickly solve the problem.
I really don't buy the, 'it's impossible to track where people are' argument. There are multiple solutions, some involving technology (a crash detector isn't outside the realms of possibility, live tracking which notes when someone stops, etc) and some are administrative (you assume everyone is still racing until you are informed they aren't and if they suddenly drop from 7th to 97th you expect an update from the team).
None of this is science fiction. These solutions exist in other sports and what is lacking is the will to enact them. Why is that? I would say the answer is because no one has died yet. The problem is that now someone has.
It’s highly likely that no-one has thought of that scenario.
Anyone who hasn't thought of this should be nowhere near organising events. Anyone who thinks it's acceptable that no one has thought of this should be nowhere near organising events.
Loads of races end up with racers scattered all over the road. Mostly hilly ones (where the descents are). There aren't enough vehicles to cover every rider when this happens.
And yes, lots of people come to watch races but have you ever noticed how many are on the climbs and how few are on the descents?
Even on grand tours you see shots of the leaders flying down heavily wooded areas with no one in sight. How many people do you think you're going to see on a rainy day for the junior women's road race?
Perhaps it's because I often participate in risk assessments but the first question I would ask would be, 'What happens if someone crashes and no one sees?' The response is then much like yours. The likelihood is played down to the point where they try to convince me it's basically impossible.
Some QAs will go along with that. Good ones won't. Good QAs have no political or career aspirations because you are going to upset people.
Someone should have then pointed out that, while it's unlikely, it is probably not as unlikely as everyone wants it to be and has to be considered. Especially when you consider the consequences. In this case, it's not just the risk of death but the manner of the death. The manner of the death shouldn't matter but to me it does. Lying alone and injured for hours while you can hear people pass by metres away seems like it must be... actually I don't know how to describe it.
Anyway, if you lay all that out to management and they still want to pretend it's nothing then it's time to cover your arse. You write a letter clearly laying out your concerns and you send it to everyone involved. Ideally you get an acknowlegement in writing but the important thing is there is a record of your concerns. That way if someone dies you (hopefully) don't get blamed.
Someone failed to properly risk asses the rules for running events. Whoever that was should lose their job. Their boss should lose their job and maybe face criminal negligence charges.
The easiest way to deal with a irritating QA is to get rid of them and put someone more compliant in place. That's why the big boss has to be the one to take ultimate responsibility. It's far too easy to put yes men in place. Cycling seems to have a lot of yes men and people prepared to whole heartedly defend the indefensible.
Like I said, even if it didn't take 1.5 - 2 hours to find her this time, it is going to happen in the future if changes aren't made. And I'm not talking about more 'cards'.
They can track, I've done UCI MTB stage races and the timing chip was also a tracker, if a rider was stopped for a period of time they had motorbikes out there to go check on them.
And it was as simple as running on an app that my wife could download and watch how I was doing.
It would appear that event safety at all levels of cycling needs a radical overhaul with officials ensuring all competitors are accounted for and competitors/teams sanctioned for failing to check-in after finishing/abandoning.
Is the likely outcome. The harsh fact is that most safety improvements/legislation come in after a tragic event and a lessons learnt exercise.
Trackers, in this day and age, seem the obvious solution. The UCI can probably afford to require/provide them. Local clubs/race series, less so. I'm not sure the safety of top pro riders is more valuable than that of weekend warriors, and if the struggling local race scene gets lumbered with further costs, there won't be so many top pro riders.
There's also the harsh fact that racing is inherently risky. You can screen people for potential undiagnosed heart issues (a separate discussion) but crashes in races will happen, and some of them will have tragic outcomes. Unless you risk assess it to the point that racing only happens on perfectly smooth Grand Prix circuits, one rider at a time to avoid collisions and it becomes the world's dullest time trial.
Someone failed to properly risk asses the rules for running events. Whoever that was should lose their job. Their boss should lose their job and maybe face criminal negligence charges.
A risk assessment cannot reduce the risks to nil. And neither should it when sport and recreation are the focus of it.
If this is the case you better stop all DH, Enduro, XC and any other cycle sport now.
A risk assessment cannot reduce the risks to nil. And neither should it when sport and recreation are the focus of it.
An 18 year old lay alone in a forest dying in one of the richest countries in the world as hundreds of people drove and rode by. Saying that you can't reduce risks to nil is not a helpful comment.
Yes, cycling is dangerous. There is always a risk people could die. That doesn't mean people dying when it could have been prevented is acceptable.
If you are worried about your favourite sport being impacted then can I suggest your priorities are wrong.
An 18 year old lay alone in a forest dying in one of the richest countries in the world as hundreds of people drove and rode by. Saying that you can’t reduce risks to nil is not a helpful comment.
As Wikipedia would say: citation needed.
You don't know that. Yes, there's a lot of actually quite morbid rumour and speculation that there could be some truth in it but right now, the unhelpful comments are coming from you rather than anyone else.
Perhaps it’s because I often participate in risk assessments but the first question I would ask would be, ‘What happens if someone crashes and no one sees?
Really? That would have been your FIRST question about a road race on a fully closed circuit with hundreds of staff and marshals and the world's press in attendance?
If you are worried about your favourite sport being impacted then can I suggest your priorities are wrong.
I'm actually worried that the rush to be 'as safe as possible' means a slow demise of a balance to 'as safe as necessary'. This is across many things in life, not just cycling.
My experience also shows that some risks are hard to predict and therefore almost impossible to plan for.
Unfortunately many involved in health and safety expect complete and utter safety, removal of all risks (perceived and unknown) and if something ever goes wrong immediately call for punishments, more rules and more restrictions. Incidents should be seen as tragic and a learning opportunity - and in this case we don't know the full facts yet.
Yes we can improve, but we will never make things completely safe and will never predict every single hazard.
 the unhelpful comments are coming from you rather than anyone else.
Since we're talking about unhelpful comments, something has been bugging me and then I remembered. You're the one that regurgitated a story you'd heard second hand about Nicole and Tony Cooke and presented it as your own. A story that was designed to discredit a couple of people who were being 'unhelpful'.
I know this could be regarded as playing the man not the ball but given there's been plenty subtle and not so subtle aspersions about my character for bringing this subject up I think it's fair to know exactly where everyone is coming from.
For my part, I'm involved in QA for life saving devices so I'm quite familiar with the process involved in risk assessments and how the job often involves fighting with higher ups and making myself deeply unpopular for doing so. I also happen to be a father who for some reason keeps picturing his own daughter in the same situation Muriel found herself in and is getting somewhat upset about that. So far there has been nothing to suggest the 1.5 hours alone is not accurate. Or is there?
For your part, I don't know. We know you say you are involved in these races. We know you like to talk down people who are seen as 'troublemakers' with stories told in the first person but you never actually experienced. Someone who also likes to gaslight the rest of us by saying no one could have ever thought about the possibility of a racer crashing and no one seeing it.
You really are the perfect embodiment of the UCI and probably bike racing in general.
Halfway down the page in case anyone is interested:
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/victoria-pendleton-2/
Brucewee - you're making this very personal and coming across as aggressive. That's not appropriate.
You're also applying your experience in a very specific industry to a very different situation. One size does not fit all.
Brucewee – you’re making this very personal. That’s not appropriate.
Yes, I'm angry. Mostly at the UCI but also at people on here who feel the most important thing is no one talk about it.
Sorry for being inappropriate.
You’re also applying your experience in a very specific industry to a very different situation. One size does not fit all.
When it comes to fighting with management who all have their own angles and objectives, one size does fit all. If safety happens to align with their objectives, great. If it doesn't then safety takes a back seat every time.
Yes, I’m angry. Mostly at the UCI but also at people on here who feel the most important thing is no one talk about it.
More than happy for people with the actual relevant facts to talk about it. People with an aggressive anti-UCI position using this tragedy to further their cause, less so.
I think you'll find the Matts and crazy-legs of this world have a far better idea of appropriate risk assessment for sporty/outdoor activities than many on here. And I'm saying that as a Trustee of a charity (Scout groups) who will go to prison if someone dies through our negligence. I take this really seriously.
More than happy for people with the actual relevant facts to talk about it.
The main fact we have and the one that has got me upset is the time between her crash and being found. Is that number actually in dispute?
As someone who was part of a club that had to go through something very similar (so I'm talking from very real and relevant experience) your expectations are so far out of sync with what is reasonable it's unreal.
It's been a week since the accident, there are multiple organisations and literally hundreds of people that will need to feed into an investigation to find out what happened. They are spread over the world due to the nature of the event. There is a formal investigation being undertaken by authorities in Switzerland, which may have the potential to lead to criminal charges and is likely to restrict what can publicly be released.
There is so much information to obtain and process in an incident like this that it's unreasonable to assume that it is all gathered yet (particularly as it may be under caution [or Swiss equivalent]). It then needs to be worked through to get a detailed timeline of what happened and who knew what when. The video puts a lot of potentially unnecessary events to try and make it seem like they know more than they do but what Cat Ferguson was doing is broadly irrelevant. Until this has all been worked through, and it will take time, releasing unverified information is distressing to family, friends and may also be harmful if (quite possibly when) it ends up in court.
We've not had the coroners (Swiss equivalent) findings or police reports released before which any actions would be presumptive
Lots of shouting at the UCI but the event was run by the Local Organising Committee, it seems it was their course design therefore they would have responsibility for risk assessment and mitigation. UCI then had commissaires to review and support so have a review role but do they have responsibility for on the ground actions. Swiss team I'm assuming should be monitoring their riders. I would expect that all three of those organisations are internally reviewing their actions on the day and procedures they have in place.
Nobody is saying things shouldn't be investigated, nobody is saying that investigations might not identify change that should be implemented and nobody is suggesting anyone should not be held to account. However knee jerk reactions and unformulated responses don't help anyone, may actively prevent the right people being held to account and the right actions being implemented.
So quite frankly, some random on the internet's morbid desire to be furnished with a timeframe for no reason at all is irrelevant. It also runs contrary to the Families request to avoid speculation and as they of all people are the ones we should be concerned about, maybe think about winding your neck in.
As someone who was part of a club that had to go through something very similar (so I’m talking from very real and relevant experience) your expectations are so far out of sync with what is reasonable it’s unreal.
Hearing lots of people with experience organising events telling me to shut the **** up. Telling me I've got a morbid fascination, etc.
If you think the 1.5 hours is acceptable, if you think a rider crashing and no one seeing was impossible to predict, if you think no one talking about this is the best course of action then you need someone from the outside with experience of risk mitigation to have a long ****ing hard look at what you are doing.
The number of deaths at cycling events is increasing. The speeds are getting higher. The margins are getting tighter. Riders are willing to take risks they maybe weren't before.
It is getting more dangerous.
And the UCI's solution is to blame the riders and bring in cards (and fines).
If you think the the solution to all this is to continually tell people to stop talking about it then maybe you're the one who should be winding their neck in?
Anyway, like I said halfway up the last page. I don't want specific answers on this case at the moment. Like you said, best wait for the investigation.
Lots of shouting at the UCI but the event was run by the Local Organising Committee, it seems it was their course design therefore they would have responsibility for risk assessment and mitigation. UCI then had commissaires to review and support so have a review role but do they have responsibility for on the ground actions. Swiss team I’m assuming should be monitoring their riders. I would expect that all three of those organisations are internally reviewing their actions on the day and procedures they have in place.
What I want to know is, when the UCI was writing it's guidelines/rules for event organisers, what risk assessment was done regarding the very real possibility a rider could crash and no one see? What procedures are in place to ensure organisers are following the rules?
Or, as crazy-legs said, did such a possibility simply never occur to them?
Because if such a possibility never occurred to them then lots of people need to lose their jobs.
There are multiple solutions, some involving technology (a crash detector isn’t outside the realms of possibility, live tracking which notes when someone stops, etc) and some are administrative (you assume everyone is still racing until you are informed they aren’t and if they suddenly drop from 7th to 97th you expect an update from the team).
I'll go through the list of technology that I've personally witnessed cause issues.
I've seen a race organiser spent a lot of time dealing with somebodies partner, as their crash detector had been activated during an event with little phone coverage, and the partner was continually hassling the organiser to find their partner, despite nobody having reported anything, and marshals failing to locate anybody at the apparent crash activation spot. Turned out the rider had crashed, was fine, but due to lack of phone coverage only the crash activation came through, and no more tracking.
Now repeat that at an event with several hundred riders all with crash detectors, and crash detectors become a wall of noise.
Trackers can be more useful, but add in failed trackers, poor reception, poor accuracy (especially during bad weather), and additional cost, and for most events, the risk assessment doesn't stack up in their favour. Ask any participant if they'd be willing to pay at least an extra £10 on their entry to cover the cost of a tracker on a fairly well contained event, and you probably won't have many takers. Anybody who really wants tracking, can use their phone with an app of their choice.
As for monitoring race positions, people drop positions for numerous reasons. On a large event, you could quite easily tie organisers in knots trying to monitor such a thing.
I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns, which I share, but there is a limit as to what event organisers can practically do, while still making events viable.
Then wait until the investigation is completed properly. Otherwise, you’re just rubber-necking a tragedy, it’s ghoulish
No one needs to wait to ask the question, 'What risk assessment did the UCI carry out regarding a rider crashing and no one being aware? What does the UCI do to make sure the race organisers follow the mitigation factors?'
These are basic questions the press should be asking and yet they are not. It has nothing to do with an ongoing investigation (the results of which it wouldn't surprise me to not see until round about Christmas), it's something that is an ongoing risk for racers and we should know that people's lives aren't being unnecessarily put at risk for our entertainment. Unfortunately Muriel Furrer wasn't a high enough profile casualty for the mainstream press to take an interest and the cycling press has to worry about its access in the future.
Call me goulish, call me morbidly fascinated, call me whatever the **** you like. I've been laughed at for proposing risks that are 'impossible' (only surprisingly enough these things often turn out to be more possible than people would like). It's not particularly nice but people who laugh at you and call you names when you refuse to let them bury their heads in the sand aren't really worth any respect anyway so I can live with it.
Hearing lots of people with experience organising events telling me to shut the * up. Telling me I’ve got a morbid fascination, etc.
No we're saying that a week from the accident, before appropriate authorities have completed their investigations and reports is an unreasonable time to be demanding information be released to the general public against the families wishes.
If you think the 1.5 hours is acceptable,
We don't know whether the time would have affected the outcome as we don't have a coroners report. We don't know the timescales or processes in place, therefore we don't know (and at this time have no reason to know) whether the timeline is correct or not. Is it reasonable, on the face of it no, but does procedure need to change or was someone negligent leading to a delay that could have been resolved then let's see what the investigation outcome says.
if you think a rider crashing and no one seeing was impossible to predict,
Nobody is saying that, it is however unlikely, that the crash is serious is even more unlikely and that the crash results in the rider and their equipment maybe not being visible to and unable to move to obtain help from anyone even more so.
if you think no one talking about this is the best course of action then you need someone from the outside with experience of risk mitigation to have a long * hard look at what you are doing
I think uninformed speculation prior to proper investigation is unhelpful. I'm not so naive as to assume that noone is talking about it, if for no other reason than it was announced that it was being investigated by the authorities in Switzerland. I'm also fairly confident that given the potential legal implications any potentially liable parties will also be undertaking a thorough review of procedures.
The number of deaths at cycling events is increasing. The speeds are getting higher. The margins are getting tighter. Riders are willing to take risks they maybe weren’t before.
I'm not sure they are, do you have proof rather than hyperbole? Yes they are on average but a) we don't know whether that is relevant in this case b) downhill speeds seem to be less affected than flat speeds so in this case potentially not relevant and c) equipment is getting better, braking is more reliable, etc. the major outlier is the clothing and safety equipment worn. Are they willing to take more risks, go back and look at some of the crazy stuff that went on even when I started watching, at the top end people have always taken risks looking at the spectacular cocktails of drugs riders used (which killed them on occasion), the unwillingness to accept helmets because of potential overheating, it's always been there.
It is getting more dangerous.
Do you have any evidence for that? There have been deaths and serious injuries in the peloton forever.
And the UCI’s solution is to blame the riders and bring in cards (and fines).
We've not seen what the UCI may choose to do in response to this, so we just don't know what may happen now.
What I want to know is, when the UCI was writing it’s guidelines/rules for event organisers, what risk assessment was done regarding the very real possibility a rider could crash and no one see? What procedures are in place to ensure organisers are following the rules?
Why, do you feel you are owed an answer or this before the investigation is completed? Why are you assuming it won't happen? Are you an event organiser that might need to change their procedures or are concerned about the liability you may be exposed to.
Shouting doesn't bring anyone back, it doesn't stop it happening again, poorly thought out and rushed legislation or regulations are less effective than well considered and properly planned change. It may be that there was perfectly sound processes and procedures in place that weren't followed or it could be that there is a gap that is identified that can be reasonably addressed or it could be that there is a gap where the further implications of addressing it generate more risk than leaving it open. The only way that will be determined is through the relevant bodies undertaking their investigations. Shouting for answers from the UCI (who may well not be the right people to focus on) on STW forum that they won't read does nothing, moves things nowhere but may be seen by the family and may cause them distress.
No one needs to wait to ask the question, ‘What risk assessment did the UCI carry out regarding a rider crashing and no one being aware? What does the UCI do to make sure the race organisers follow the mitigation factors?’
These are basic questions the press should be asking and yet they are not.
Not they are not, they are questions that should (and are) being asked by formal investigators in a legal environment where the outcome is quite possibly that people serve jail time.
The press could ask that but it will be purely rhetorical as they know full well that no organisation at this stage will be willing or able to provide an answer.
If you got the answer to your question what do you do with it? Stop all racing until something is put in place?If not then why did you need to know now and not wait for the formal investigation outcome? In terms of putting people's lives at risk, it's not new, we've got years and years of racing to look at to know that fatal crashes are not something that happens often.
Those questions also don't lead to identifying any appropriate solutions which is what you (and the rest of us) want to see as an outcome. But those questions are difficult to answer and need to consider the need to reduce potential harm against practical delivery and ensuring that cycle racing is still feasible.
mrhoppy +1
#Shouting doesn’t bring anyone back, it doesn’t stop it happening again, poorly thought out and rushed legislation or regulations are less effective than well considered and properly planned change. It may be that there was perfectly sound processes and procedures in place that weren’t followed or it could be that there is a gap that is identified that can be reasonably addressed or it could be that there is a gap where the further implications of addressing it generate more risk than leaving it open. The only way that will be determined is through the relevant bodies undertaking their investigations.
This.
As brucewee will know, risk management is not best done by press or those without the information we can have, nor is rushing into decisions which are not fully informed or balance. We need time for the full facts to be gathered, a considered enquiry and though process undergone, and recommendations put forward.
Suggesting anyone asking for a considered and balanced approach is 'against' safety is just plain wrong, as is suggesting that risk benefit is at the heart of sports and recreation is also putting our sport above safety is a falsehood.
Asking for people to be fired and looking to apportion blame is also a very quick way of shutting down the truth, of obscuring lessons to be learned. We need all involved to speak without fear or favour, and look to learn not blame.
This is an utterly tragic case, but rushing will not serve anyone well in the future.
These are basic questions the press should be asking and yet they are not.
Having seen that the press cannot even get the nuance of an eBike vs electric motorbike right, I would not put any faith in any reporting from press on this.
I have been up close and personal with the death of a teenager in an outdoor sport my employer provided. The press had not a clue about the intricacies, the judgements being made, the information on hand and more. They basically may as well have made a story up.
This needs leaving to the proper authorities, and the full reports as primary evidence need reading, not some junior reporters story.
Well, OK, I'm sure the results of the investigation will be released in due course, after enough time has passed so everyone can chill out a bit. Probably round about Christmas.
I'm sure there will be enough fudging to make the 1.5 hours to seem entirely unavoidable and we'll all be able to enjoy another year of racing under the leadership of David 'Radios are Fake News' Lappartient.
The number of racing deaths next year will probably not exceed 3.
Do you have any evidence for that? There have been deaths and serious injuries in the peloton forever.
Yes further up the page from the linked article, this section
According to known figures, between 1971 and 1980, 4 cyclists died during races in which they took part, 5 between 1981 and 1990, 6 between 1991 and 2000. From 2001 to 2010, 9 cyclists died in competition, while in the last decade, between 2011 and 2020, 21 cyclists died. In 2023 and 2024, 4 cyclists died on the road while competing. This is a clearly incomplete list that doesn't take into account the many tragedies that have occurred in women's competitions and at youth level.
The rate of accidents causing deaths is rising. Any competent safety organisation would be taking a long hard look at the causes and trying to mitigate them. This would appear to be missing. We can't reduce danger to zero but we can ensure that risk is reduced "as far as is reasonably practicable" which is the basis of all UK and European safety law.