Quick poll. Who you voting for tomorrow?

Labour would leave. But from the interviews and statements I’ve seen it would be pretty much a technically as we would still be part of every EU deal and arrangement we could.

May was known as ‘Teflon’ throughout her reign over the Home Office. I think that says enough. I, yet again, don’t get a proper vote as I live in Bercow’s constituency.

Never understood why a “soft” Brexit couldn’t mean leave EU but remain in Single Market?

Aracer, Rone are you changing the definition of current account in terms of the economy?

What is a ‘Current Account’
The difference between a nation’s savings and its investment. The current account is an important indicator about an economy’s health. It is defined as the sum of the balance of trade (goods and services exports less imports), net income from abroad and net current transfers. A positive current account balance indicates that the nation is a net lender to the rest of the world, while a negative current account balance indicates that it is a net borrower from the rest of the world. A current account surplus increases a nation’s net foreign assets by the amount of the surplus, and a current account deficit decreases it by that amount. The current account and the capital account are the two main components of a nation’s balance of payments.

TurnerGuy – Member

Real answer: Corbyn voted Remain.

And he jumped on support for Brexit as soon as he could – look at his previous statements – the only reason he pretended to be a remainer was because of political pressure – that is why he was so quiet over the whole thing and got so much flack afterwards for not showing any leadership.

I would concur with this, Corbyn could have done so much more to support remain, yet he was silent when it mattered. And plenty of people noticed.

I would concur with this, Corbyn May could have done so much more to support remain, yet he was silent when it mattered. And plenty of people noticed.

Same boat then

A lady and chap in the street just now, lady says “have you voted?” He says “nah waste of time” he asked her, she says “I don’t know who to vote for” voter apathy.

I can beat this. Picked a seemingly sane woman up earlier who was unaware the election was today !!!

Aracer, Rone are you changing the definition of current account in terms of the economy?

No. I’m challenging your assertion earlier that we’d not had a Labour surplus.

Are sure about that as I stand to be corrected that there has been surplus i.e. no debt since William III.

I see what you’re saying. Sort of.

mikewsmith – Member

I would concur with this, Corbyn May could have done so much more to support remain, yet he was silent when it mattered. And plenty of people noticed.

Same boat then

I actually think that May was a remainer, but played a different card.

FWIW I also think that BJ would have supported remain if it had coincided with his personal ambition.

Rone, thank you.

Two different measures.
Current account measures if a country is lender of money or in debt to others.
Deficit or Surplus represents the difference between income and spending.

Current account we have been in debt to others since William III

Deficit or Surplus has fluctuated but mainly a deficit. Labour under Gordon Brown had 3 years of a surplus, which was less than the number of years with a much larger deficit.

Tories borrow more per year in office than Labour.

Torries borrow more[/url]

I hope everyone opted to mark their choice in pen 😉

I used the freshly drawn blood of my first-born.

It’s a tradition, or an old charter, or something.

No, just the connection between current account surplus and debt (debt being something which can be reduced by a current account surplus, but you can have both). You appear to be getting mixed up with current account balance, which may well have been in debt for as long as you say.

Corbyn all the way 🙂 because i live in hope for change in this country 🙂

aracer – Member
craigxxl » Aracer, Rone are you changing the definition of current account in terms of the economy?
No, just the connection between current account surplus and debt (debt being something which can be reduced by a current account surplus, but you can have both). You appear to be getting mixed up with current account balance, which may well have been in debt for as long as you say.

I’m not the one mixed up, the differences are quite clear as were my statements. I was not the one who connected them to be the same, that had been yourself when you tried to say my statements were a contradiction.

Corbyn all the way because i live in hope for change in this country

well we would be guaranteed a change all right, just not the one people are hoping for…

People like you, eh?

Is that what the daily mail told you TG?

Do the conservatives and their media lapdogs actually have any argument other than just JEREMY CORBYN IS A TERRORIST.

I can’t think of a single positive point they’ve made, it’s the most cynical, negative and dishonest election campaigning I’ve ever seen. Their social media ads were an utter disgrace and would never have been allowed on TV due to their highly misleading editing.

And yet people fall for it in their droves.

Your first statement was “Are sure about that as I stand to be corrected that there has been surplus i.e. no debt since William III.” – which is far from clear (for a start I presume you mean there hasn’t been a surplus because there has been debt, and surplus still isn’t connected to debt in the way you imply there)

I can’t think of a single positive point they’ve made, it’s the most cynical, negative and dishonest election campaigning I’ve ever seen.

I’ve even heard that his shared allotment is a socialist plot.

And yet people fall for it in their droves.

Think i may have upset my sister over the last 24 hours on social media
I thought there was a reason i dont do facebook in the traditional sense

Their social media ads were an utter disgrace and would never have been allowed on TV due to their highly misleading editing.

i’m currently getting targeted ads for the conservatives and project planning software. I’m not sure which is furthest off the mark.

Is that what the daily mail told you TG?

that would be pretty hard as I don’t read it – Metro, Evening Standard and some Guardian articles online. First two as they are free travel fodder and the Guardian articles if they look like they might be interesting. It’s veered a bit left at the moment though.

Do the media and their conservative lapdogs actually have any argument other than just JEREMY CORBYN IS A TERRORIST.

FTFY

Jam bo – click on those targeted ads, make them send more and waste their budget. Admittedly it may be late in the campaign for that.

craigxxl – Member

Footflaps – Member
Last time we had a net surplus current account statement refers to surplus and debt was under Gordon Brown.

Are sure about that as I stand to be corrected that there has been surplus i.e. no debt since William III. statement in relation to current account, original statement by footflaps had combined current account and surplus together
There was a brief period between 1998 and 2001 that tax receipts were in surplus of expenditure statement in relation to surplus in relation to taxes over expenditure, completing the separation of the two terms[/i], mainly due to the measures taken by the previous Tory government and a tax raid on pensions (which I think was another Tory idea but very unpopular so not acted on). After 2001 the spending spree started by 2008 there was a £76bn deficit, then we had the crash (the bubble did burst) and by 2009 it had leaped to £154bn. Hardly the best track record.
For those about to jump in and say the crash wasn’t foreseeable this was at a time when GDP was decreasing, trade deficit increasing and household debt to GDP doubled. All statistics were available but not acted on as it didn’t suit him.[/quote]

Aracer, clear enough for you?

Cougar – Moderator

As for being “quiet,” I don’t think he was particularly, just that most of the mainstream media were too busy giving airtime to arsetrumpets like Farage and Nuttall to listen.

There’s definitely some truth in that- I remember someone on here railing about Corbyn not doing any remain campaigning- but you could go online and find his diary, that day he was at 2 big events in the north of england but all that got reported was Boris eating a pie on the bullshit bus, there wasn’t a word of Corbyn.

good point. anyone know how much does it costs them each time?

It’s clear you’re still getting mixed up with terms – footflaps mentioned a net surplus current account, and in a bit you quoted earlier:

“A current account surplus increases a nation’s net foreign assets by the amount of the surplus”

Clearly you can have a net surplus current account (or a current account surplus) whilst the current account is still in debt.

Clearly you can have a net surplus current account (or a current account surplus) whilst the current account is still in debt.

😯 are you now merging the two terms?
Please get your terms correct. I used the following site http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/currentaccount.asp when I was doing my last exams to ensure I was using the correct ones. Luckily the person who marked it understood the terms too otherwise I would be resitting it.

If you’re using a different set of definitions please link to it so we can all understand.

aracer – Member

“A current account surplus increases a nation’s net foreign assets by the amount of the surplus”

Do you know what a net foreign asset is?

That’s as maybe, but you still seem to be suggesting a current account surplus is the opposite to a debt, when the terms on there are being used in exactly the way I am – the opposite to a current account surplus is a current account deficit, whilst debt relates to the current account balance.

As I keep pointing out, it’s perfectly possible to have a current account surplus whilst being in debt (ie a negative current account balance) – I’m busy trying to separate the terms! If we go back to that original statement by footflaps it refers to “surplus current account” – no mention of debt which is a term you introduced and is related to balance rather than surplus/deficit.

Yep – it’s the difference between the overall position and the year on year change which seems to be where we have a problem.

Northwind – Member
…I remember someone on here railing about Corbyn not doing any remain campaigning- but you could go online and find his diary, that day he was at 2 big events in the north of england but all that got reported was Boris eating a pie on the bullshit bus, there wasn’t a word of Corbyn.

jezza came to our work, to shout about the benefits of EU investment in northern Industries, and employee protection. great speach, tv crews were here, timed perfectly for broadcasting live at the lunchtime news. did it make the news? nope.

Deficit or Surplus has fluctuated but mainly a deficit. Labour under Gordon Brown had 3 years of a surplus, which was less than the number of years with a much larger deficit.

Four years actually. Which is twice as much as the Tories since 1979.

“Conservative governments have an average annual surplus of 0.3% of GDP over the 53 year period to 2008, while Labour governments have an average annual surplus of 1.1%.”

It’s just worth debunking the myth that Labour are fiscally incompetent. Or they are at least less fiscally incompetent than the Conservatives.

^ totally agree.
I was quoting from the ONS figures on the tax/expenditure surplus periods [/url]

I was just debunking the myth that Gordon Brown was some economic genius. He had overseen a massive crash whilst bragging about an economic bubble that wouldn’t burst when all indicators were saying that the country wasn’t performing.

It’s just worth debunking the myth that Labour are fiscally incompetent. Or they are at least less fiscally incompetent than the Conservatives.

An alternative way to look at the figures is that people only get desperate enough to vote conservative once labour have screwed up the the finances enough. (Purely playing devils advocate)

Regardless which side of the red/blue divide you are on, things are going to have to change fairly quickly as we can’t afford to continue running a deficit much longer.
And that’s what scares me about both sides. JC has a ‘costed’ part of his manifesto, i’ll leave others to argue over that and take it on face value that it’ll work, but he also has ~£300bn of borrowing for nationalisation and infrastructure. I’m even happy to concede that in the long term that may pay off as increased growth, but in the short term leaves us with an extra ~£10-15bn in debt repayments each year, which is money that cant be spent on services, and only digs us a deeper hole.
On the other side of the coin, the conservatives didn’t even bother to cost their manifesto, so not sure how anyone has any confidence in what they are going to do.

Long story short, we’ve all created ourselves a mighty fine mess with 20+yrs of fairly steady borrowing, and at some point in the next 10-20yrs its going to bite us in the ass. The longer we leave it, the harder the bite is going to be.

From my dad:

As a 70+ moderately wealthy pensioner, you might think that I would be a natural conservative voter. So why wont I be voting conservative? NHS and public service underfunding, the growth in child poverty and food banks. The continued growth in the deficit despite 7 years of this government telling us that this is their goal. I name just a few. But most of all, the loss of hope for so many of our fellow citizens. Austerity doesn’t bring growth, or services that our people deserve. Corbyn is far from perfect, and some of his manifesto doesn’t add up or make financial sense. But it does provide a different direction and hope for many people ground down by austerity. So, my small vote will be giving him a chance and If you do give a damn for any of your fellow citizens, and are prepared to pay just a little more to help them, I recommend that you do the same.

we can’t afford to continue running a deficit much longer

Especially when Brexit has trashed our economic credibility even before it’s trashed our actual economy.