I do one ride then wipe it with WD40 a second time which removes any excess that’s worked its way out of the chain. From then on it stays clean on its own.

One tin of Putoline and a 1l deep fat fryer ordered. I have a new chain coming for the road bike too, so I’ll be giving it a try in the next few weeks.

As a recent convert to the big P, I found I wasn’t too impressed after the first application, but then after the second ‘dipping’ it seemed to take better.
Might be my technique improved, or maybe it takes a couple of applications to really get into the links.

Don’t make the DFF too hot, 120c is all you need. Making it too hot just means a thinner application due to it running off the hot chain.
The chain is ready when the air bubbles stop coming up, I usually turn off the DFF when the bubbles stop and let the chain sit with the lid up for maybe 10/20 mins before bringing the basket up and letting it drain a bit before taking it out to cool slightly, then wipe it down.
On my all weather bike (the one that doesn’t get cleaned as much), I tend to leave the chain in the cooling wax longer and don’t wipe it down (still let it drain though) so that there is more wax on the outside of the chain, that way after a wet ride, I can just put it away without worrying to much about it going rusty or getting stiff links.

It’s always better having a rotation of chains, so that the freshly waxed one is just ready to go on and you can wax the one thats just come off whenever you have time.

A DFF is better than a pan (I started with a pan too) as any dirt on the chain just falls through the basket to the bottom and doesn’t get back on the chain like it does in a pan.
I am getting between 300-1000 miles on a chain, obviously depending on conditions.
I did get 1500 miles out of the road bike chain because I forgot to check when I last did it, but it didn’t sound like it needed done, plus it only really got used in the dry.

I have a poor commuting bike that sits out in the garden in all weathers, its not been used that much over the last year, but the chain is as smooth as when I first waxed it, can’t say that for the gear and brake cables though!

FWIW my Putoline experience has been a bit trial and error but it is very very good. I’m a novice bike mechanic so please excuse my stating the obvious in any of my experiences below.

Initially I Puto’d a new but thoroughly degreased chain (degreasing process was petrol 8hrs, degreaser couple of hrs, methswas a few times –  till it was clear basically – I know plenty of people will say no need to degrease a new chain but that’s what I did in case the factory grease stopped the Putoline sticking. Yes, yes osmosis/capillary action, but the factory grease is designed not to come off I was told so I figured I’d help it along). My chain was therefore pristine when I started.

I bathed it in in the Puto, probably too hot as I had it up to 160c in the DFF, and didn’t wipe any excess off. After every ride I washed the bike and in most cases I dried the chain with compressed air and sprayed it with GT85. The jockey wheels, and the chain ring to a degree, were pretty gunked up with excess Puto and I had to scrape/wipe them clean regularly. After a month of riding exclusively on gravel type trails with a few muddy puddles and the odd bit of 6 inch deep mud I started to notice rust appearing on the inside of the links and on the cassette after I had washed/dried. I concluded that I had basically washed most of the Puto out with excessive GT85 application – the chain wasn’t noisy though.

I Puto’d my original chain and this time I wiped the excess off the outside of the chain while it was still hot. Although I was cleaning the bike regularly I just wiped the chain with a cloth impregnated with a bit of GT85/MucOff equivalent. No rust and no gunk build up on the jockey wheels. This chain lasted about 350 miles of winter riding (same conditions as above – wet trails etc) and then all of a sudden I heard noises like a grinding bearing – turns out it was the chain. Quick swap back to the other one I had standing by ready, and good to go again. The second chain I wiped after its Puto bath and I’ll see how it goes…

I have checked the wear on the first chain and it’s still at .5 after about 400 eBike miles – not sure if that’s good or not as I haven’t got 10000’s of miles of chain wear to compare it to.

Observations:

Small DFF is best as the chain can sit in the basket and be retrieved easily – slow cooker is a no as it takes hours to heat up.

Not too hot 120c -140c

Keep 2 chains on the go so it’s a quick process to swap to a fresh one.

It’s much better/easier/cheaper than making your own wax (I tried this and it was great in the dry but no good in the wet)

It’s better than any other bottled lubes I tried as they need reapplying basically after every ride and they attract all sorts of dirt so you have to clean the chain too. Putoline seems to actually keep the chain and cassette clean.

Anyway – that’s my experience if it helps anyone make a decision. 👍

Having read a lot of this thread, is there actually a consensus on whether a new chain can go straight in the DFF or does it need cleaning?

I put my last one straight in. My next one might get a little degrease as an experiment with some panel wipe

Two different chains on two different bikes

This isn’t really a question on putoline but asking as having to take my chain off to lube is causing the question. Does it matter ifthe chain goes on a different way up? Like the side of the chain that touches the cogs then next time it’s the other side as there’s no markings on the chain depicting this

Perhaps it even decreases cog wear, or the opposite? Thoughts?

Sram nx if that’s important

Important but not vital I’d say. There are actually 4 different orientations, not just two – same way up but run it ‘in reverse’ and then flip the chain over to use the other side. Of course whichever way you have it some of the wear is evened up by the derailleur jockey wheels that are designed to touch both sides but I don’t think that has as much effect as some others might say.

It’s also why I really don’t recommend 32:16 for single speeds, with the two being such a close factor of each other, at the points in the pedal stroke where you put most power on (particularly going up hill at low revs) you are using exactly the same bit of the rear cog. if you consider where your right foot is full power to the chain at the ‘2 o’clock’ position, call that tooth zero. When the left foot is at the same position half a rev later – tooth 16!! On the rear it’s doing a rev each time and EXACTLY THE SAME teeth are engaged. Other teeth are barely used under load.

I know 32:16 is ‘the law’ but honestly it’s madness. This is why I’d only use prime numbered cogs, 17 or 19 and adjust the front accordingly, 32:17 or 34:19. I’d ideally have preferred an odd numbered front cog too, but could never find a NW 33 or 35.

…but could never find a NW 33 or 35.

There’s a good reason for that, if you think about it! 😉

someone did explain it but the maths got quite complex iirc

/2 complex?! 🙂

I didn’t say too complex, just quite. It was all to do with the chain plate sizing and relative proportions to the respective size of the teeth on a NW which leads to incorrect meshing but that’s a whole different kettle of fish and irrelevant to the putoline chain orientation question, suffice to say no-one makes 33 or 35T NW chainrings ‘for technical reasons’.

Mate if you have an odd number of teeth it would go narrow wide narrow wide narrow wide narrow narrow wide…

Yes, but the narrow will work in both inner and outer plates. As long as it doesn’t go narrow wide narrow wide narrow wide narrow wide wide

Yeah but then it’ll be out of sync, the extra narrow will mean that the next wide will be trying to fit into a narrow slot in the chain!

@theotherjonv

suffice to say no-one makes 33 or 35T NW chainrings ‘for technical reasons’

– in that it is impossible.

Pedantically, if it ends with two narrows together, or two wides together, it is not a narrow-wide tooth pattern.

But more practically, on every second rotation of the chain ring all the wide teeth would be trying to engage into the narrow slots of the chain, which is not helpful for chain retention.

But getting back to the original subject of the thread, is there a consensus that Putoline should be used at around 120-140C and that 160+ is too hot? And a used chain does not need a degrease before it’s first use of Putoline?

Yeah but then it’ll be out of sync, the extra narrow will mean that the next wide will be trying to fit into a narrow slot in the chain!

so make it a narrow?

yes I know, I think this is the third time I’ve argued this and still they come. FWIW the prime numbered cog thing is also BS. I can show you the maths for that as well

In other news, Mortimer and Whitehouse are doing an episode from STW Towers.

But getting back to the original subject of the thread, is there a consensus that Putoline should be used at around 120-140C and that 160+ is too hot? And a used chain does not need a degrease before it’s first use of Putoline?

I still think best practice would be to immerse chain at the hottest temperature you are comfortable with (I think I’ve used 180C but typically now 160C). This will help clean chain and makes wax as runny as possible to get right into rollers.

Then I just turn the fryer off and keep jiggling/checking chain until the wax is starting to solidify (takes at least half and hour) at which point I’ll take basket out and hang on edge of fryer to let chain cool. I’ll then wipe of excess whilst it’s still a little bit runny, and job done!

One wipe with a GT85 rag and a first ride usually deal with any blobs of wax you’ve missed, especially if it’s a muddy ride.

I can’t wait to see these jokers faces when you bring the math @theotherjonv

Crikey some of you lot have a hell of a procedure.

When the chain starts making “dry noises” a quick shake in a jam jar of white spirit then into the pan of putoline ar 170 degrees. Turn off the flame let it site for 10 mins, fish it out with some pliers, quick wipe trying not to burn hand then straight back on the bike.

I don’t do anything to it in between rides, just lash it away. Sometimes it will be really filthy the next time I get it out, a quick spray of wd40 and a run through a rag and its quiet again.

Sometimes if its been wet next time there will be a rust evident, just ignore.

Repeat every 3 months or so or when it sounds “dry”. I rarely ever clean my bikes either.

Chains are cheap, I’ll just replace when they start to show wear. New chains go straight in the putoline pan.

Can hot wax really run out of the chain to any significant degree? I think that even if it’s very hot, capillary action in the thin gaps between chain parts will mean it will retain a lot of wax.

I tend to run mine to the hot end of it’s range, around 170, agitating the basket until it stops bubbling to make sure the air gets out and wax gets right into the chain.

@alexnharvey – I don’t know the physics, but at higher temps (say, above an indicate 150 on my cheapy DFF), I definitely don’t get as long out of an application before the chain sounds noisy again.

Well they say one good experiment is worth a ton of mouthflapping. Will try dropping the temp before removal next time.

is there a consensus that Putoline should be used at around 120-140C and that 160+ is too hot?

My current thinking is 160 for summer, 120 for winter.

Can hot wax really run out of the chain to any significant degree?

Depends what you mean by significant. It still works fine at 160, but it is a lot thicker at 120 which means you have a thicker layer.

My current thinking is 160 for summer, 120 for winter.

And the logic is?

I’m sold on it, been on mostly my Hardtail this year with lockdown and the chain has just reached .75. that’s unheard of for me.
Some truly manky rides after the admittedly glorious spring. Quite a few rides filling the drivetrain with Berkshire clag, followed by Swinley sand, then Berkshire clag again.

Plenty of Chilterns clag too.

Damnit I added a photo to a post earlier.

I think if you get it too hot excess runs out of the chain rather than holding in it.

And the logic is?

Hotter = thinner, so more runs out, meaning less excess and a somewhat cleaner drivetrain. Sufficient for dry summer conditions.

Cooler = thicker so more stays in, so lasts longer in filth.

It’s only a theory. Warmer temps did work well for me this summer which was overall quite dry for me, I had a permanently clean drivetrain and I was getting loads of miles from one frying.

I emailed Putoline yesterday and asked what was the optimum temp…..

The melting temperature from this Putoline Chainwax product is approx. 55 degrees Celsius. Don’t heat it up above approx. 70 degrees.

Best Regards,

Bernard Voortman

Bernard Voortman

Technical Support Manager

Lol, D’OH!

Interesting as I was about to post about the Silca Hot Melt Wax which only requires to be immersed in a pot of *almost* boiling water, but then the Silca stuff requires a clinically degreased and clean chain to start with…

70? really? Blimey!

I asked why and this was the reply..

It will evaporate (awful smell) and it’s starting to “burn” (higher temperatures).

The light wax/oil fractions will evaporates quicker than the more heavy ones and the rest product will be for that reason thicker

Hmm…. could that explain the poor results some of us have had with our ‘first’ applications? We basically hadn’t burned off enough of the light wax/oil fractions and these made the wax less durable?

Doh! Just dunked my first chain, in at about 150C, let it cool to 120C and out to hang.

I wonder if @tjagain has had his Putoline slowly change as it looses all the lighter parts of the wax mixture, but hasn’t noticed. Maybe time to buy another tin and compare in the name of scientific investigation TJ?

Bugger.

Will try mine as low as it’ll go next time.

Could try today, as it’s a rest day and I plan to MTB at the weekend.

Hmm…. could that explain the poor results some of us have had with our ‘first’ applications? We basically hadn’t burned off enough of the light wax/oil fractions and these made the wax less durable?

No you are not meant to burn off any of the compound.

I have my spare ready to go so I’m goin to do it again at 70 and see what happens (if my DFF will even go that low!!)

I still have half a tin left so I might swap it over in case i have ruined it by having it too hot.

I also asked if it was necessary to degrease a new chain….

It’s not necessary to degrease it before wax it. Only clean the chain from dust and dirty mud etc. Die the heat, the normal grease will be removed also for a part.

I think that means no – one can just dunk it in…

Worth noting I don’t get any bubbles and I get minimal smoke, so the lighter fractions can’t be that volatile. Although if I dunk a chain that’s dry but has had say Shimano Wet on it, I do see bubbles from the chain, suggesting that the wet lube has lighter fractions in it that are evaporating at fryer temps.

I always clean my chain thoroughly (shaken in a pot of paraffin) before putolining. I have no idea if it’s beneficial, it’s certainly not 100% essential, but I just don’t like the thought of putting a manky chain in clean lube. Doesn’t take any length of time and definitely doesn’t cause any harm so I’ll keep doing it I reckon.