Viewing 40 posts - 521 through 560 (of 657 total)
  • Putoline question
  • Premier Icon ossify
    Free Member

    For all those binning their fryers, Argos also do a mini slow cooker for £11.99 😉

    I bought one cos I went with Molten Speed Wax, who say the correct temp is 93C (max 104C) so a fryer is too hot.

    Premier Icon ajantom
    Full Member

    Lowest setting on the dff is 80 degrees.
    Just trying that now.
    Though I went for an insanely wet ride earlier today, and my chain was still quiet at the end of the ride.
    Was going to redo it anyway, so we’ll see if lower temp = better.

    Premier Icon ajantom
    Full Member

    Hmmm, 15 mins at 80c and it’s still solid.
    Maybe we’ve been pranked?

    Just read the safety sheet on the website, and the only temperature info is that the melting point is 68c and the flash point is approx 200c.

    No warnings about heating to 120-150c.

    Premier Icon oceanskipper
    Full Member

    So I’ve just tried mine at 80 which is the lowest setting on the DFF. I used Mrs P’s digital Thermapen meat thermometer (shhh!) and it said the temp was up near 100. I put the cold metal chain in and  the temp dropped to 70 but at that temp as soon as I lifted the chain out it started to set solid on the chain meaning there was 2 – 3mm of wax on it. Far too much for my liking. I put my finger in it and it wasn’t too hot at all ( I have just done the same experiment on my hot tap which was reading 60 on the thermometer but was too hot to leave my finger in obviously.) I turned the DFF up to 120 and left the chain in until the reading on the thermometer was 100 and that seemed to be a much better temp – there was no smoke or horrid smell so I’m guessing I wasn’t evaporating all the oils… I lifted the chain out gave it a wipe and hung it up. Seems fine……

    I have emailed Bernard again to ask what’s afoot with 70 as it seems too low.

    Feel free to ask Bernard yourself though technicalsupport@kroon-oil.nl

    Premier Icon jamesoz
    Full Member

    Ignoring potential wind ups and the probable lack of accuracy on a cheap fryer thermostat, I’d think a motorcycle chain would want a far thicker application than a tiny bycycle chain so would benefit from a lower temperature.
    I have no idea on the temperature as I use a camp stove outside, I consider it a successful application if, when it cools, fast backpedaling makes the chain go slack where the links are full of wax.

    Edit:- just saw the post using the kitchen temperature probe, brave, brave man.
    Can I have your bike if she finds out?

    Premier Icon oceanskipper
    Full Member

    Edit:- just saw the post using the kitchen temperature probe, brave, brave man.
    Can I I’ve your bike if she finds out?

    She’ll never find out. It’s spotless again thank goodness 🤞 And I put new batteries in too for good measure. 🙂

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    I wonder if @tjagain has had his Putoline slowly change as it looses all the lighter parts of the wax mixture, but hasn’t noticed. Maybe time to buy another tin and compare in the name of scientific investigation TJ?

    ON my second tin now and notice no difference in a new and old tin. I certainly heat it to above 100c

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

     It’s spotless again thank goodness

    And will last for ages with no awful grinding noises, win!

    Premier Icon pedlad
    Full Member

    Just to add another inane level of whataboutery to this discussion I did wonder if heating the chain up to >150 degrees would cause some problems for the pin/plates because of expansion? Another reason to do it as cool as it’ll melt and run off?

    Premier Icon oceanskipper
    Full Member

    And will last for ages with no awful grinding noises, win!

    Ha ha that’s hilarious. 🙂

    In truth any of the cooking that requires the use of a thermometer is normally done by me – still she wouldn’t be happy if she knew it had been in my bike oil!

    My guess is that it must be more difficult to read the temp of wax oil for some reason –  I left the probe in until the temp stopped climbing so it wasn’t a case that the wax immediately surrounding the probe cooled down and gave a false reading. It definitely wasn’t at 70 degrees though as my finger will confirm.

    I have to say I’m puzzled.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    Just did two chains in cooler wax. Took ages to heat up, and the wax was definitely thicker. Set the dial to 120 and it obviously wasn’t that hot, did one chain that way as normal. Some bubbles came up on agitation. Let it cool to around 90 on the dial, dunked the chain and it came up a congealed black blob so clearly too cool.

    Premier Icon dickyhepburn
    Free Member

    NO! Having spent the last few years free styling Putoline on a camping stove in the garage a couple of days ago I pushed the £15 click and collect button for the DFF from the ‘gos (as frankly there is F all else exciting these days), was going to pick up this afternoon BUT now…

    Premier Icon Jordan
    Full Member

    @molgrips I would guess that dunkin a cold chain in the lower temperature wax would seriously lower the wax temp even further and it would probably take a relatively long time for both the chain and wax to get back up to temp. You didn’t say how long you left it in for? Must admit, I’m a bit doubtful of the lower temp advice given further up the thread but am willing to be educated.

    Premier Icon stevious
    Full Member

    Suggest leaving the chain on top of the wax while it heats so it’s less cold when it goes into the wax.

    I wonder if the DFFs have an actual thermostat or if the temp readings are approximations for oil temps? Might explain why they’re so far out.

    Premier Icon ductions
    Full Member

    Just took the plunge and ordered a tin of putoline. I’m currently using molten speed wax on my mtb and road bike. I have 4 chains in rotation on my road bike and it’s been a bit of a faff this winter, since MSW doesn’t seem to last more than a couple of rides on a chain and often I’m left with a rusty cassette and chain links after wet/damp rides.

    I’ll just put the chains in boiling water to clean them and then replace the MSW in my slow cooker with the putoline.

    Do many others use putoline on their road bikes? Get any rust, or just wipe down with a GT85 rag?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    I have no idea what temp my fryer does it at- I just treat the chain when the consistency feels right, which for me is thicker than oil, thinner than custard. Precision!

    Premier Icon stanley
    Full Member

    Did a couple of experiments with my Asda DFF (£15) and my contactless temperature gun.
    Surprisingly, the temperature settings on the dff are surprisingly accurate… almost perfect.
    Heated up to 120 degrees then left to cool, the Putoline was still very much a thin liquid at 70 degrees, and started to thicken up as it dropped through the 60s. Solid by about 64 degrees.

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Do many others use putoline on their road bikes? Get any rust, or just wipe down with a GT85 rag?

    Yep, on the winter road bike. I just wipe down with GT85 after each ride, very little rust, much cleaner than previous wet lube applications, quiet and durable. Pretty pleased.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Full Member

    thicker than oil, thinner than custard

    I feel this is how we should measure viscosity from now on

    Premier Icon Jordan
    Full Member

    nickc
    thicker than oil, thinner than custard

    I feel this is how we should measure viscosity from now on

    Carefull now! This could lead to a debate on how thick custard should be. Personally I like it thin, OH likes it thick…..ooer missus!………..I feel you should reconsider..

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    Thinner than custard which is exactly as thick as my custard

    Premier Icon Jordan
    Full Member

    @Northwind Please…..this isn’t the sort of place for that sort of talk!

    Premier Icon Superficial
    Free Member

    If you can’t slice it, it’s too thin.

    Custard, not Putoline obvs.

    Premier Icon dickyhepburn
    Free Member

    Briefly rotate bowl 90 degrees so it is vertical, custard remains in bowl = appropriately thick, custard now on floor = too thin 👍

    Premier Icon bruneep
    Full Member

    CBA looking back through thread.

    Is there any visible wax on chain after it’s been dunked in the putoline. Does it go black after a while or just a regular wipe down clear the chain.
    Tempted to dabble for new rainbow chain in the AXS groupset bought.

    Premier Icon Sandwich
    Full Member

    There’s visible wax even after a wipedown. It’s sticky stuff!

    Premier Icon oceanskipper
    Full Member

    So Bernard’s response to my question as to whether 70c was definitely correct….

    Probably a little bit higher temperature, but I thought not really more, but you can easy try it. I am sure it not 100 degrees, normally waxes will be fluid around the mentioned temperature.

    Regards and have a nice weekend.

    Bernard

    I’m going to try testing the temp again…..

    Premier Icon Jordan
    Full Member

    TBH his answer isn’t exactly brimming with the confidence of expertise.

    Premier Icon baddddad
    Free Member

    My down gear changes on a putoline setup seem to be really sluggish when it’s down near freezing. Is it possible the wax is too sticky at low temperatures or just all in my head?

    (XT mech with serviced clutch and new inner and outer cable)

    Premier Icon tjagain
    Full Member

    Quite plausible

    Premier Icon 13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    I’ve noticed my road bike drivetrain feels ‘heavy’ with the Putoline drivetrain, but only in the stand, still haven’t figured it out.

    The wheel freewheels for ever, the cranks spin freely in the BB, pedals spin freely, jockey wheels lubed, it’s really weird.

    XT mech with serviced clutch and new inner and outer cable

    Have you checked shifting with the clutch off? I reduced the tension on my GRX clutch and the shifting improved.

    Premier Icon teethgrinder
    Full Member

    If the temp is too low, the layer of wax that melts will insulate the remaining wax. You’d need to agitate the bulk wax or turn the temperature up.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    There’s quite a bit more excess on the chain after the first ride after frying at a lower temp – as expected. But the whole thing is greasy and clearly very waterproof even after a wet ride. So I’m expecting it to last loads longer. I’ve wiped the outside down and it’s not overly messy – and the rest of the drivetrain (cassette, jockey wheels and chainring) are still clean so despite this it’s still an improvement on normal wet lube.

    Interestingly, my Sram chain is a lot shinier and cleaner looking than the Shimano one. It’s possible that the Shimano one is a duller finish or the outer plates have rusted slightly.

    Premier Icon oceanskipper
    Full Member

    So I wonder how often you would expect it to last on a motorbike chain? I can’t imagine having to reapply it every 500 miles or so is going to be appealing to most/all motorbike riders so perhaps the lower temp keeps it really thick on the chain. Possibly too thick for cyclists though…

    I’ve ordered a thermometer so I am going to test it again. it’s interesting that there is no mention of temperature anywhere on the website or data sheets (other than flashpoint/melting point) it just says to put the tin on the cooker. I would imagine that this would potentially get a lot hotter than 70? Maybe the aluminium tin dissipates the heat or something so it doesn’t get too hot……

    Premier Icon wzzzz
    Free Member

    TBH his answer isn’t exactly brimming with the confidence of expertise.

    LOL who needs experts anyway. This stuff has zero instructions and even the maker hasn’t a clue.

    Why even use a thermometer? Like a chip pan on the hob if it starts stinking or smoking it’s too hot, turn it off.

    Ah chip pans on the hob, them were the days, come back from the pub, chop some potatoes with your sharpest knife, wang them into a smoking pan of boiling fat. Totally safe after 9 pints of “premium” lager. Whoever thought that was a good idea.

    Premier Icon Jordan
    Full Member

    Ah Yes, I have a mate with some nasty scars up his arm from an after pub chip pan fire. Made the classic mistake of picking up the pan to take outside.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Full Member

    almost perfect.
    Heated up to 120 degrees then left to cool, the Putoline was still very much a thin liquid at 70 degrees, and started to thicken up as it dropped through the 60s. Solid by about 64 degrees.

    That sounds about right, the thermostat will be on the metal bowl, so a bit like the ice in your single malt is probably at -18C (because it’s in a 40% v/v ethanol solution) but the outside of the glass is nearer room temperature, but left indefinitely the thermostat on your radiator will melt the ice and the whole lot will be at ~19C or whatever.

    Then to freeze it again you need to get the whole room down to -18 but that will probably be a much slower and even process.

    Premier Icon Murray
    Full Member

    So I wonder how often you would expect it to last on a motorbike chain?

    It’s designed for non-O ring chains, so generally motocross now. Doing the chain every weekend is probably the least part of maintenance for a ‘crosser.

    Premier Icon big_scot_nanny
    Full Member

    speedway riders also – my father in law sponsors one of the Edinburgh Monarchs riders, and as soon as he smelled the garage as the chains were in my DFF, he said “ah, putloline! smells just like the Monarchs’ pits”

    Premier Icon oceanskipper
    Full Member

    Why even use a thermometer? Like a chip pan on the hob if it starts stinking or smoking it’s too hot, turn it off.

    I think after all the investigatory work the above is about right. The best bit of advice from Bernard is not to let it get too hot and evaporate some of the lighter oils.

    I couldn’t even get my DFF to fully melt the wax with the thermostat set to 70 – despite stirring it round etc. The element basically came on for about 5 mins and then the light went out and it never came back on again. 20 mins later it was still half solid.

    Turned it up to 100 and it melted but according to my thermometer it was at 110+. That did seem to be about right mind, it wasn’t smoking and it was thin enough to run off and leave a thin layer coating my probe (ooh err!).

    As it cooled and got to around 70 it was too thick IMO –  It was like thick double cream and left a massive thick coating on the probe. The ambient air temp was probably too cold TBH as I was in the shed but it didn’t drip off, just set as soon as it came out of the DFF.

    I blame lockdown and the weather, as if it wasn’t for that I’d be out cycling instead of arsing about trying to get chain wax to the perfect application temperature! 😜

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