Proud to be English?

Not proud so much of my contribution to England (which is negligible at best) but of those Englishmen and women that went before, that created piece by piece the country we call England.
From being subsumed by the Norse & the Dane, til all was left of ‘Anglaland’ & Wessex was approx 5 square miles of marshland around Athelney the Anglo-Saxons under Alfred fought back & started the creation. If you look at the history its pretty incredible there should even be such a place today & that is down to many people who fought in different ways to create it.
That’s what England means to me, and that’s what I’ll lift a glass to tonight (probably with Scotch whisky!).

EDIT: St George became England’s Saint because he was the personal Saint of the Angevins, who went on to become the Plantagenet dynasty.
England’s first Saint was St Edmund the Martyr who was murdered by Danes in the year 869.

I think St George adopted as patron out of nostalgia for crusading. That’s about it really. At least St David and St Patrick actually did stuff for their respective countries.

I’m not sure anyone dislikes him due to animal cruelty from slaying dragons. Except maybe Game of Thrones geeks.

MSP – Member

St georges day means absolutely nothing to anybody

Maybe that’s the job, then, make it about something. It doesn’t have to be a date or an event or anything. Either that, or just stop bothering. St Andrew’s Day isn’t much of a thing, but we don’t get angsty about it. Not every national day can be St Patrick’s.

Or how about a Britain day? Most of the great achievements of our nations were done together. I reckon this is half the reason some national days are a damp squib, you need to look back centuries to find a point where you can even say “that’s a 100% english thing”.

I’m very proud to be English and British.
Sure, its not perfect, nowhere is. But I would never want to live anywhere else. I’ve visited loads of countries and there’s a couple I could live in for a year or two (Italy springs to mind) but not permanently.
Things I love:
The seasons, the change from one day to another. Light Summer nights, frosty winter days.
The countryside and the access we have to it. Unrivalled as far as I know. I LOVE LOVE LOVE being out in the middle of the countryside, on a warm sunny day and hearing skylarks singing. That honestly is the best thing in the world to me
London. Best city in the world, 45 mins away by train.
The people – We can moan about the tiniest thing and be completely unfazed by disaster.
British humour.
Our multicultural society. It honestly amazes me why so many people want to come and live here, but I find it very flattering. I LOVE the things they bring with them, and have been doing so since the Romans invaded. We’re such a mish-mash of cultures and ideas and we’re very tolerant and welcoming. We have to be, people keep arriving!
I love the fact that we don’t do big, brash, massive, best etc but we do small and quaint and dainty soooooooo very well. Ive seen some amazing things around the word. Hugely impressive, but nothing and nowhere is as pretty as Britain.
We have the best cake. That’s just a fact. Dainty European pastries? Nahh. Give me Victoria sponge any day!

There’s probably more….. 🙂

Poddy, a great post, and I agree wholeheartedly except for this bit:

The seasons, the change from one day to another.

Our seasons aren’t that distinct. You can have the exact same day at any time of year, it just might be a few degrees warmer or colder.

Some places get reliable hot dry summers, crisp cool sunny autumns, cold snowy winters and quick abundant springs.. not the UK though 🙂

Some places get reliable hot dry summers, crisp cool sunny autumns, cold snowy winters and quick abundant springs.. not the UK though

That’s what he said. 🙂

The seasons, the change from one day to another.

Nationalism isn’t the same as patriotism.

Yes that’s why I didn’t write ‘patriotism’.

ie my love of England could be called ‘patriotic’, but if I was to differentiate and identify in a prideful fashion (ie proud to be born English, have concepts of what it is to be English) then that IMO is more in the province of Nationalism.

Your definitions may differ, but I checked Oxford and M-W just to be sure I wasn’t being patronised for good reason! The words are of course related and variously defined. I wouldn’t wish to argue it on that count.

Cheers molgrips.

Probably because you are not much of one 😉

FWIW I agree with your sentiment

St Andrew’s Day isn’t much of a thing, but we don’t get angsty about it.

And your a Scot?!?

We even celebrate it down here – reeling until the early hours. Gets a bit sweaty in all that kit 😉

I’m not even all that proud of being human.

Yep, I’m with you on that one. Definitely not proud to be English/British. I had nothing to do with, just chance. I tend to keep my head down when I go abroad such is my shame at being English.

Orwell made a good contrast between Nationalism and Patriotism.

Nationalism is inseparable from the desire for power. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally.

teamhurtmore – Member

We even celebrate it down here – reeling until the early hours.

I think maybe that’s the definition of a ropey national day- one that gets celebrated more elsewhere than it does at home 😆 There’s events, and that, especially for the older folks. I doubt most people my age even know the date.

Sandwich – Member
Boudicca Day I could get behind. A quick trip to Colchester for a spot of cleansing and big knives on the Nissan. What’s not to like?

Although seeing as Boudicca was Celtic, and possibly fictional, this may not be the greatest replacement for the Turkish fictional character, in terms of relevance to the modern English? 😉

I’m pretty sure Bill Bryson meant Britain, on account of how it says Britain.

Well he lived in Malhamdale, so he probably meant Yorkshire.

I doubt most people my age even know the date.

But its a public holiday.

same issue for Scotland, I daily get told that Scots will only buy from Scots by Scots.

Really? I’ve never heard that.

It’s a funny thing – most people say they’re proud to be x, but it’s hard to pin down specifics. I’m the same – could come out with some stuff about Scottish mountains and scenery, but as peterfile says most Scots don’t go anywhere near the mountains (and they’re titchy mountains anyway). Could say something about Red Clydeside and Scots inventing the modern world, but that was a century or more ago and not really relevant to me. Really, it’s daft wee things, like the Glaswegian reaction to a terrorist attack was to run over and put the boot in.

It’s retro-justification – I like being Scottish, so I think of reasons why. The English/British are the same – there’s lots of talk aout making immigrants take on British values, but try to pin those values down and it gets hard trying to find values that aren’t shared with lots of other countries. It’s being able to queue, and have a conversation about the weather, basically.

I’m proud to be Cumbrian, then British.

I view my nominal nationality more as a consequence of chance than any meaningful design

With that, I am more or less completely indifferent. My gut feeling is that any value placed in the meaning has more to do with the way people I care about, feel about their identity as relates to Englishness.

Last night of the proms shite can **** off.

I’m a bit off it since they stopped including “Tom Bowling”.

Yep, I’m with you on that one. Definitely not proud to be English/British. I had nothing to do with, just chance. I tend to keep my head down when I go abroad such is my shame at being English.

Why’s that then & what would you rather be if not English?

I’m not that proud to be human, wer’e the only species on the planet that can **** things up good & proper for everyone & every other species.

human, wer’e the only species on the planet that can **** things up good & proper for everyone & every other species.

The cyanobacteria did that when they got rid of most of the CO2 in the atmosphere and flooded it with oxygen.

Bastards, still haven’t forgiven them for that.

I’m an interesting breed of French, Irish and English who migrated to Wales… Proud to be a European

The English/British are the same – there’s lots of talk aout making immigrants take on British values, but try to pin those values down and it gets hard trying to find values that aren’t shared with lots of other countries.

^^^ Johnny foreigner’s OK if he answers to ‘John’ or a generic ‘Abdul’ or ‘Bruce Lee’- type nickname, hangs out with football fans, drinks alcohol and isn’t religious (excepting being Christian). All of which are Good English Virtues. If he violates the aforementioned or becomes uppity (ie listening to foreign music or having family abroad) the mateyness will stop right quick.

Although seeing as Boudicca was Celtic,

more likely a Briton and closely related to the Belgae

I tend to keep my head down when I go abroad such is my shame at being English.

I understand that. The thing is, if we don’t go abroad, be proudly English (or British, I don’t think the English particularly have a monopoly on being **** above the Scots or Welsh) but in a reasonable way, then the only image we’ll have abroad will be of thugs pushing a black man off a metro train.

I’m happy for anyone to know where I’m from, so they can see we aren’t a nation of fat racists in football shirts (insert stereotype of your choice if you don’t like mine)

And that’s coming from a football fan, before it turns into an anti-football thing.

We have the best cake. That’s just a fact.

My favourite cake is probably Victoria sponge. I grew up with it, it’s comfort food. Is it the ‘best cake’ though? If best means favourite then I suppose every National cake is ‘the best’ to people who equate the ‘best’ with something from their country/childhood?

I might be over-egging it.

Just watched the penultimate Masterchef final BTW – seems the new Euro-standard of fine dining is a slice of buttery flesh skidded to a stop on a slick of snot. Gimme beef and carrots any day. I think.

I tend to keep my head down when I go abroad such is my shame at being English.

I think travel either brings out in us either the respectful human or the disrespectful xenophobe. If it’s the former then hold your head high as you’ll probably get a great reception in most places. It’s those people from any country who arrive expecting the natives to look up to them (no matter how boorish they themselves are) that tend to receive the coolest treatment abroad. Likewise those who receive you as a stereotype before an individual are guilty of this in just the same way. I really do distrust Nationalism, this much is apparent. Luckily being a Brit we have the best patriots, with selfdeprectaing humour.

Cannot believe this, why cos someone Tweets Happy St George’s day is the question asked about being Racist?

Happy St George's day everyone pic.twitter.com/od3OrRY0F7

— Grant Holt (@Grantholt31) April 23, 2015

Because the internet is full of reactionary idiots?

If we’re talking English heritage then tomorrow’s the day to raise a glass (or maybe ride your bike somewhere new……). Anniversary of the Kinder trespass, April 24th, 1932.

Harriet Harman proudly sporting a red rose on her lapel on QT tonight (BBC1 now)

Harriet Harman proudly sporting a red rose on her lapel on QT tonight (BBC1 now)

Bloody House of Lancaster!

teamhurtmore – Member
Harriet Harman proudly sporting a red rose on her lapel on QT tonight (BBC1 now)
POSTED 5 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

the red rose is (also) a symbol of social democratic/democratic socialist parties worldwide.

…as is Harriet

Yep I am. Proud of me Scottish granny and me Welsh grandad also. Take some pride in England, Scotland and Wales. Not sure about NI as never been. Overall we live in a great place but best of all you lucky people get to have a Britain that contains Yorkshire (for now).

Proud to be English would be like being proud of having brown hair* or something. It’s not like I’ve exactly made an effort…

Being Yorkshire, on the other hand, is more of a profession and requires altogether more effort, so yes, very proud…

* Bad example. At my age I could probably be excused from being a little bit proud having hair full stop.

I’m proud of my country including the semi-autominous bits that make up the U.K. not a fan of regional chestbeating particularly from some areas used for filming hacneyed whimsical northern TV dramas of taciturn old men having jolly japes in wheelbarrows rolling down hills and pushing their place of birth as some kind of elevated status amongst their fellow countrymen with a sneer. it’s embarrassing to hear those boorish accents while travelling abroad and the child-like affectations that accompany comments about how ‘it’s nay like back ome’ etc.

Nowt wrong with Yorkshire. At least it keeps all the miserable, tightfisted bastards in one place.

Just spotted the mistake in the Bryson text.

It’s the Chancellor in the Lords that sits on a wool sack…

It depends – when it comes to sport it’s England (or England and Wales, UK, Britain and Ireland or Europe – depending on the sport…) I support and do enjoy success (was at final of Women’s RWC last year)and feel pretty patriotic in that context.

I also have a real interest in English (NHS, Welfare etc) and UK politics (tax, defence etc)that goes beyond self interest. and find it disheartening when the mean spirited voices on the fringes (I’m looking at you UKIP) drag us away from what I see as our societal sense of fairness and equality. Similar with societal norms, I feel there is British sense of fairness and self deprecation that is something I relate too strongly.

So in that sense I am tied to my national identity. But I really would not be happy with the flag waving, oath of allegiance spouting US form of patriotism. Maybe it’s because we are more secure in our identity that we don’t need it?