Proud to be English?

I think the issue with St George’s day is that it’s not a tradition, and it’s really hard to make a tradition.

The real English (or even British) celebration day is August bank holiday, of course 🙂

the absolute essence of Englishness which is stiff upper lip and refusing to get too excited about things, in public at least

we don’t have to jump around and shout about how great we are, we already know how great we are 😉

It’s not a tradition because England hasn’t been under anyone else’s rule for a long time. That sort of shit always means that national holidays are more important to people of that nation. That’s why we’re meh about it and why everyone hates us 😉

I don’t think anyone should be made to feel ashamed that they’re English, but unless you’ve put some effort into becoming English (like making your way halfway around the world and discovering the language and culture), then pride would probably be misplaced.

should be Aethelstan Day and celebrate the Battle of Brunanburh

bencooper – Member

Yup, it is a great pity that the racist idiots have kidnapped your flag.

same issue for Scotland, I daily get told that Scots will only buy from Scots by Scots.

never once has that paradigm been reversed for south of the Border

My birthday. I was born on the 23.4.56. And my confirmation name was George.

Be happy of who you are.
😀

Happy birthday @globalti. George is my middle name, has been a family middle name for many generations.

@ben, sorry to hear that. You certainly wouldn’t be the butt of any such jokes in my company. I think Scotland and he Scots make a very significant contribution to the UK

The media have made it somewhat distasteful to be “English and proud”, which is a shame.

Scots are bad for faux patriotism. There are photo sets of Scotland that do the rounds on social media every now and then and Scots jump all over them, holding them out as why Scotland is so amazing and why they are so proud to be Scottish. Yet the whole time all I can think is “YOU’VE NEVER EVEN BLOODY BEEN THERE!!!”. Sitting in your house in a city that looks like any other UK city, working for a company which is HQed elsewhere in Europe, drinking in a UK chain pub, buying your groceries from a generic UK supermarket…and yelping about how wonderful Scotland is compared to the rest of the UK because someone posts a picture of Horgabost beach and not only is it somewhere you’ve never been, but you’ve actually no idea where it is.

I think living here is great – but the idea of a patron saint is a bit wierd, part of being english is about having reserve which means not noisily shouting about how great you are, truimphalism can easily cross to false notions of superiority

My part in the story of the British Isles is to be the drunk bloke in the kilt, butt of jokes about bad diet and poverty.

as an englishman I can happily state that we don’t think that ! Whisky, golf, clyde built ships, music, CR Macintosh, the list goes on – the (kind of odd) demonstration in London during the referendum was to make the point that most english people don’t see scotland as a lesser component of the UK

Overall, yes! 🙂

We live in a great country, I wish that Westminster bit would **** right off sometimes, but we have great lives and many opportunities to make them even better.

@ed, meanwhile we have our prime minister telling us we’re not allowed to have any power in westminster, and our national press telling everyone they should be terrified at the idea of Scots voting. It’s very sad how English nationalism is being used right now, and not by racists and hooligans. The jokes etc that Ben mentioned don’t matter to me, they can only demean the people telling them but this stuff goes all the way up. I hope Cameron’s wrong and this stuff doesn’t play well with many people but it seems like it does.

Here we go. St George. Hard bastard. We should all wear sad lions on our shoulders.

Proud? I’m English so don’t really do that sort of proud. Last night of the proms shite can **** off.

From a foreigner, and one of my favourite bits of any book I’ve read:

“Suddenly, in the space of a moment, I realized what it was that I loved about Britain – which is to say, all of it. Every last bit of it, good and bad – Marmite, village fetes, country lanes, people saying ‘mustn’t grumble’ and ‘I’m terribly sorry but’, people apologizing to me when I conk them with a nameless elbow, milk in bottles, beans on toast, haymaking in June, stinging nettles, seaside piers, Ordnance Survey maps, crumpets, hot-water bottles as a necessity, drizzly Sundays – every bit of it.

What a wondrous place this was – crazy as XXXX, of course, but adorable to the tiniest degree. What other country, after all, could possibly have come up with place names like Tooting Bec and Farleigh Wallop, or a game like cricket that goes on for three days and never seems to start? Who else would think it not the least odd to make their judges wear little mops on their heads, compel the Speaker of the House of Commons to sit on something called the Woolsack, or take pride in a military hero whose dying wish was to be kissed by a fellow named Hardy? (‘Please Hardy, full on the lips, with just a bit of tongue.’) What other nation in the world could possibly have given us William Shakespeare, pork pies, Christopher Wren, Windsor Great Park, the Open University, Gardners’ Question Time and the chocolate digestive biscuit? None, of course.

How easily we lose sight of all this. What an enigma Britain will seem to historians when they look back on the second half of the twentieth century. Here is a country that fought and won a noble war, dismantled a mighty empire in a generally benign and enlightened way, created a far-seeing welfare state – in short, did nearly everything right – and then spent the rest of the century looking on itself as a chronic failure. The fact is that this is still the best place in the world for most things – to post a letter, go for a walk, watch television, buy a book, venture out for a drink, go to a museum, use the bank, get lost, seek help, or stand on a hillside and take in a view.

All of this came to me in the space of a lingering moment. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I like it here. I like it more than I can tell you.”

Bill Bryson, Notes from a Small Island

‘To be born an Englishman is to win first prize in the lottery of life!’ (Cecil Rhodes 1853-1902)

Or what Grayson Perry has called “Default Man”

So, if nothing else, every middle class white male should puff his chest out just that little bit more today and beam with pride that today is his day, today is the day that celebrates him, today his company car shines even brighter.

And he is proud that all this was (relatively speaking) handed to him on a plate. Because he’s English and by Jove he’s worth it..!

Can’t say I’m proud really; where you’re born isn’t something I think works like that. Plus I’m becoming increasingly aware as I get older that the West isn’t quite the paragon of virtue I’d once thought.

I’m more grateful I wasn’t born somewhere less desirable like Syria, Russia, Chard etc.

I’m more grateful I wasn’t born somewhere less desirable like Syria, Russia, Chard etc.

USA

Yes. Proud to be British and English. We have a long and proud tradition of being inclusionist, with a multi-cultural society that is the envy of many, and I’m proud that I can go out to eat and get a plate of curry, pizza, jerk chicken….. just as easily as i can get a pie or a plate of fish and chips.

+ another.

I consider myself lucky to be a British citizen but I have played little part in establishing the laws and customs of the country that i enjoy so don’t feel that I can take pride in them.

This too. I’m not sure I take ‘pride’ in these things, but I am glad and thankful that I have grown up in a country which has, what I consider to be, highly admirable laws, customs and tolerances. And a sense of humour.

I’ve lived in France and Spain for over three years of my life and I’ve travelled all over Africa and the Middle East and I have absolutely no doubt at all which country is the best – England, with France and Germany coming somewhere behind and the others nowhere close. My brother lives in the USA and generally I don’t think he’s very happy; he’s stuck there now having married a nut job rather hurriedly when he arrived.

But it’s also always been made clear to me, more and more so in recent years, that as a Scot I’m not really a full part of that. My part in the story of the British Isles is to be the drunk bloke in the kilt, butt of jokes about bad diet and poverty.

This is a thread for Englishmen…not Jock’s with chips on both shoulders!

😉

I have absolutely no doubt at all which country is the best – England

I think you (and Bill Bryson) mean Britain…

That pic of St George is very like DD’s twitter pic.

But it’s also always been made clear to me, more and more so in recent years, that as a ScotBrit I’m not really a full part of that. My part in the story of the British Isles is to be the drunk bloke in the kiltsocks with sandals, butt of jokes about bad diet and poverty teeth.

That would be the stereotype of British tourists the world over.

I think you (and Bill Bryson) mean Britain…[/QUOTE]

Dear God, man.

They might both mean England, if they are talking about the country what is south of Scotland and east of Wales.

Geographically, they might mean the British Isles. Or maybe Great Britain if speaking about just the largest of the islands in the British Isles. Or perhaps the United Kingdom if talking about the sovereign state encompassing most bits of land near here.

But not just Britain.

perhaps wikipedia’s handy venn diagram would help

peterfile – Member
…and yelping about how wonderful Scotland is compared to the rest of the UK because someone posts a picture of Horgabost beach and not only is it somewhere you’ve never been, but you’ve actually no idea where it is

Approximately 500metres East of Clach MacLeod

Thankful.

I’m proud to be an honest and I hope kind human being, and of a few personal achievements through some considerable adversity – but not for having being born somewhere rather than somewhere else – that just seems weird to me. Nationalism, IME, is usually more ugly than not – ie ‘we’re’ (sic) better than ‘them’ (sic) – so right there I’m not enamoured with it. I do love England though, and have more than a passing interest in the land, history and achievements of some great thinkers and doers. Mostly I love the topography, produce and natural diversity, something which seems to be falling prey to car-culture/rampant consumerism.

Wavers of the Flag of George seem to be enormously defensive and paranoid of late. Must be something to do with the fact that wherever they gather online there seems to be more than the aberage amount of supremacist xenophobia on display (along with some cringingly ironic butchery of the English language)

he’s stuck there now having married a nut job rather hurriedly when he arrived.

divorce is available and a lot better he do that in the USA than UK

Off to see this tonight BTW 🙂

Nationalism

Nationalism isn’t the same as patriotism.

For me, the latter is simply about appreciating the country in which you were born.. and it’s a little different to appreciating any other because it’s yours. It doesn’t need to be negative.

That’s why we have terms such as nationalism, jingoism, xenophobia and so on. They mean different things 🙂

Scouse first. British second. Definitely not English!!

It’s perfectly possible to be proud of your country whilst still disliking certain aspects of it.

Hell; there’s certain aspects of me, my wife, my children i don’t like, but i don’t feel any less love for them as a result of not being perfect.

Not really, no. I like England a lot but I can’t see that being proud of being from here really makes sense to me – much as I’m not meaningfully proud of being human.

I’m not really from part of the country that has any particular associations with most common ideas of Englishness so maybe that helps?

I find it a bit odd that some of the things (clichés) that are claimed as proud British/English traditions are pretty much the same as the rest of western Europe, I am thinking of multiculturalism, tolerance and understanding. Really Britain is just on par with the rest of Europe, sometimes we have been a bit ahead on some issues, other times we have lagged behind. There is absolutely nothing unique about general British attitudes.

The only thing I do find a bit different is the banter, joking around and self deprecation. And to be honest I think that is just understanding the culture I grew up in and not getting the way other nations humour works.

Pity we cant fly a flag to celebrate although Google are on the case

So is a church near me and a few other places. It’s as if that statement is utter bollocks.

So is a church near me

Thank God for that!

It’s as if that statement is utter bollocks.

I will compare our reaction and celebration with 14 July and the angst that goes with it.

I’m not even all that proud of being human.

Oops! That should have read.

There is a church near me and a few other places flying them. It’s as if that statement is utter bollocks.v

😳

mrmonkfinger – Member

They might both mean England, if they are talking about the country what is south of Scotland and east of Wales.

I’m pretty sure Bill Bryson meant Britain, on account of how it says Britain.

I will compare our reaction and celebration with 14 July and the angst that goes with it.

Well at least the French celebrate the overthrowing of a cruel monarchy, and a movement for democracy. It may be symbolic in the modern era, but at least it symbolises something good and relevant.
St georges day means absolutely nothing to anybody, no one is really sure why george is our patron saint or what the **** he has to do with England at all, and killing dragons doesn’t seem to sit quite right with a nation of animal lovers.