protein shakes et al

So, i do the daily 45 miles or something round commute, a 5-10km run 5 days a week and have picked up my swimming again. Thought i now try n diet as well, to trim some loose fat off my 10.5 stone bulk (its there, believe me -age is what i blame). So i’m watching(ish) what i eat, try and eat either red meat n loads a veg or loads of pasta on a daily basis. My next thing i’ve started trying ( 2 weeks in) because of what people say is to have protein shakes. I try and consume 2 pints a day, 1 straight after i get in from my commute home and the other late at night. How long before these shakes start taking effect, because as such i’ve not really noticed a difference in performance or even recovery?? Am i doing something wrong.

Whats a normal diet for (6pack) training?? e.g. weetabix/granola breakfast, loads of fruit during day, pasta/meat dinner, drinks loads of fluids

6packs are all about having a low bodyfat count of something like 8or9% or less as opposed to a specific diet/regime as the simple fact is, if there is too much fat they aint gonna show, btw i’ve not got one too damn lazy.

tbh the hole thing is too in depth for a quick answer, protien shakes are no miricle solution to looking/feeling good etc… but as a rule from when i was doing it/researching the general opinion was 1st thing in the morning as your body has starved through the night, then within 30mins of exercise and b4 bed to give your body something to burn/use in your sleep as oppossed to breaking don muscle, bt it can all be a fine line.

all so simple/fast acting carbs are good after exercise when your body is craving fuel fast

good site[/url] but pretty hardcore at times

anyway hopefully someone with a better understanding of it all will come along soon as i’m rusty, good look

Controversial as to whether they do any good at all. With that level of exercise maybe but be sceptical

To get a six pack you need to do loads of situps as well as have a low body fat.

Personally my six pack turned into a party seven years ago and I don’t care

^ sit ups don’t give you a 6-pack. Lot’s more creative ways….pick up any issue of Mens Health/Mens Fitness any month and there will be a feature.

I think eating lots of steak makes a big difference to my energy levels at the gym. Shakes are good just add a few more protein calories to your diet. One big steak a day makes a big difference to my energy levels. Plenty of All bran to crap it out is needed though!

Depends on the drink as well. High 5 Protein Recovery does the sum total of bugger all for me, I feel no better if I take it than if I don’t. I’m now using Maximuscle Cyclone, which isn’t specifically a recovery drink, but that’s been brilliant, much faster recovery.

Protein shakes don’t do anything for cyclists. What does, however, is recovery drinks. If you take carbs within 15 mins of finishing exercise, it speeds recovery no end. Even just a can of coke helps. Recovery drinks have 3:1 carbs:protein, the protein apparentl helps carb absorbtion. What’s even better still is Torq recovery. Works amazingly well. Not at all cheap tho and I’d balk at drinking it daily.

But it’s the carbs that’s the thing. The 15 mins is called the glycogen window, not the protein window 🙂

what do you use?

i find some more effective than others,
a good protein/recovery drink makes the difference after a hard training session.
i can feel the difference the next day between having had a shake, and not. so its all down to each person.
for goodness shakes are pretty good (ime) though generally i use a night shift recovery drink, my a sports nutritionist up here.

as for the 6 pack, ab work is pretty essential to it, maybe not just straight sit ups, but a good variety of ab work is the key, then the low fat allows them to show.

I’m surprised you actually need to diet doing that much exercise per week. I found the SIS Rego recovery stuff really helps after a big bike ride. don’t think you’ll really notice much additional performance as such, although it should help i guess, its more that you don’t feel so sore the next day and can do it all again every day like you seem to be doing.

Canoeing/kayaking works well if you don’t like sit-ups (if you do enough of it). Had rather too much bodyfat for mine to show properly for the last few years though.

Oh, and the protein recovery drinks do work better than just carbs, though you don’t need enough protein for pure protein shakes to be very useful.

After a long or particularly tough ride I find SIS Rego recovery drink helps. I keep a litre bottle of it made up in the fridge to drink as soon as i’m home. I don’t notice any performance benefits, but seem to feel less fatigued the next day. Rego is mix of complex carbs, fructose and protein. I think the carb : protein ratio is about 2:1.

It should be 3:1 paceman, that’s the ratio most use.

Btw SIS rego tastes like bran flavoured puke, whereas Torq strawberry flavour is delicious, like a McDonalds strawberry shake but much nicer.. mm 🙂

Surely all that steak will be just as likely to give you a heart attack.

I quite like the taste of the chocolate flavoured Rego, but might give the Torq stuff a try on your recommendation. Where’s the best place to pick some up?

I’ve been told you shouldnt take Whey Protein before bed as the body cant process it.

radoggair – Member
So, i do the daily 45 miles or something round commute, a 5-10km run 5 days a week and have picked up my swimming again. Thought i now try n diet as well, to trim some loose fat off my 10.5 stone bulk (its there, believe me -age is what i blame). So i’m watching(ish) what i eat, try and eat either red meat n loads a veg or loads of pasta on a daily basis. My next thing i’ve started trying ( 2 weeks in) because of what people say is to have protein shakes. I try and consume 2 pints a day, 1 straight after i get in from my commute home and the other late at night. How long before these shakes start taking effect, because as such i’ve not really noticed a difference in performance or even recovery?? Am i doing something wrong.

Whats a normal diet for (6pack) training?? e.g. weetabix/granola breakfast, loads of fruit during day, pasta/meat dinner, drinks loads of fluids

What height are you? Unless you’re very small it sounds like you’re going about this all wrong. Im going to assume you’re average height – say 5’10ish. If that’s the case then you must already be pretty slight, perhaps just carrying some excess body fat.

It sounds to me like you are doing way too much cardio/aerobic excercise. Over prolonged periods (over 45 minutes I think) this will deplete your muscle mass unless you are well topped up with the correct food types.

Your ability to burn fat is dependant on the amount of muscle mass you have – more muscle = more fat burned.

What you need to do is cut down on aerobic excercises and start anaerobic excercises – eg. weight training. If you replace some of your aerobic with anaerobic excercise, combined with the right higher calorie, high protein diet then you should be able to build some muscle – thus allowing you to more effectively burn off that excess fat.

If for some reason you are aversed to putting on extra muscle mass you should still consider replacing some of your excercise routines with high intensity, short duration excercises – these will kick start your metabolism but not deplete your much needed muscle.

With regards to diet for a six pack – probably 50% protein, 30% carbs 20% fats.

Torq recovery works well for me, tastes and mix’s well too, but costs a bomb.
sis rego & forgoodnesshakes ok too.
Problem i have now is my muscle and energy recovery is much improved but my joints, tendon, ligaments are taking a hammering and i’m getting more joint ache and noise..

Glucosamine, Chondroitin, Omega 3 Oils etc might help, plus plenty of stretching. 😉

Guinness

What height are you? Unless you’re very small it sounds like you’re going about this all wrong. Im going to assume you’re average height – say 5’10ish. If that’s the case then you must already be pretty slight, perhaps just carrying some excess body fat.

I’m a tiny 5’7 inches, and do try and spend about 45 mins – 1 hour purely on weight training a day. I’ve changed my circuit plan so 1 week i’ll do 60% of max weight for 25 reps at a time, cramming in as much as poss for said time and next week i’ll do low reps, high weights. Not getting any bulkier, which is not my plan, more toned.

Sometimes, like rest of us no doubt, after doing so much exercise daily, drinking right ( i dont touch alcohol or fizzy juice), eating semi- healthily i would think i would be a whippet by now. Dont get me wrong, i am fast, and noticed my stamina and endurance levels have increased, but recovery after climbing or sprinting work is still lagging

I’m a tiny 5’7 inches, and do try and spend about 45 mins – 1 hour purely on weight training a day. I’ve changed my circuit plan so 1 week i’ll do 60% of max weight for 25 reps at a time, cramming in as much as poss for said time and next week i’ll do low reps, high weights. Not getting any bulkier, which is not my plan, more toned.

God, where do you get the time? Ever thought you might be overtraining slightly? 45 mile commute, 10k run, 1 hour weights every day?

I’d cut out the light weights for a while – you could try a low rep/ heavy weights sessions 3 or 4 times a week. You wont bulk up any (save maybe the odd half inch) unless you are really piling in the calories.

drinking right ( i dont touch alcohol or fizzy juice)

What the is right about that butterball 😉

Whatever wee baws. Just cause you cant handle your friday nights like you used to do

God, where do you get the time? Ever thought you might be overtraining slightly? 45 mile commute, 10k run, 1 hour weights every day?

Simple, leave most mornings about 5am to go to work, Work till 3ish, go to gym, 40 min cardio (10km), stretching, crunches, 45 mins on weights, poss 20-40 lenghths of the pool, sauna, bike it home, back for 7ish

Well, I wouldnt want to speculate any more. Perhaps you could check out some of the dedicated fitness forums for more info. My guess would be that you’re over training in some way. Be interesting to hear how you get on anyway.

blimey radoggair my body wouldnt handle that amount of exercise per week for long.

maybe take the recovery drink after your bike in the morning, then take another shake after the weights and another shake or food after the bike,

i’m no expert but that seems like a huge amount of exercise, i’d be inclined to reduce the frequency of exercise and increase intensity and see how things go
you getting enough sleep? thats my biggest weekness

Sleep – tschh its for girls. Sleeps my big weakness. I’m used to going to bed about 1am and getting up early ( i yawn alot at work), so other day jumped into bed at 10:30pm, got up wide awake at 2:30am, thirsty as hell. Jumped back into bed and time watched till alarm went off at quarter to 5. I prb get about 30-35 hours sleep a week

Get that ‘food for fitness’ book – it explains a lot fairly well.

Basically, make sure you ‘nibble’ on low fat carbs and drink plenty as you cycle (aerobic exercise no doubt) – aim for about 70g of carbs per hour for you.

After exercise (cycling and gym) it’s often suggested to take in extra carbs and protein in the important ratio 3:1 (c:p). This helps muscle recovery and carb store replacement. This is what protein/recovery shakes do, but also a standard milkshake is cheaper and has these components too….

As has been said, to get a six pack you need to have a;the muscle there in a decent size, and b;little fat over it.

You know that despite all that exercise, if you are thinking you need to eat lots and drink lots of protein shakes, you could still put fat on, right? I’m not saying thats what you are doing, but failure to lose weight/fat despite all that can only mean one thing…too many calories in???

DrP

Too much protein = waste of money unless you are a body builder. There’s evidence to show that somewhere. As long as you have enough to repair your muscles ie normal diet, then you’re fine.

Btw if you buy plain maltodextrin (ie torq/high5 unflavoured) and mix it with body builder protein powder from a high street health shop it’s much cheaper than buying recovery drink.

I do a lot of exercise with weights, cycling and a I run about 4 times a week for 6-15km each time.

However, looking at your routine, I would say you are overtraining, not allowing for recovery and probably ignoring genetics as well. Without being too much of a downer, a six pack is not something you can build if your genetics are wrong, some people exhibit a six pack shaoe on their abs and some people are a lot flatter, even at low fat levels.

I use protein for recovery and after weights (like soon after – within 10 minutes), I also have used creatine, Glutamine and I take a vitamin supplement and Omega 3,6,9. I don’t expect this to make me any healthier or live longer but it works for me so I don’t care about the science really, it’s more a mental sense I get.

I have tried protien recovery with carbs but too much sugar and null calories for my liking. For recovery I prefer a protein shake and carbs from regualr food.

if you want to lose fat then you need to do two things, run your blood sugar right down without going anaerobic, stay under 60% of your max heart rate, and you need to burn more than you eat.

It’s that simple. Cardio workout isn’t an ‘effective’ burner of fat, it burns calories for sure, but once the blood sugar is gone you burn everything except fat to fuel your body. So you might score a little by increasing your BMR, but it’s not what you want.

Cycling 120-130bpm for more than 45 minutes is the fast way to dropping fat.

It’s dull as hell, and almost impossible on the road, so you’ll need to be a gym bunny or have rollers at home.

Like I said, High 5 protein recovery didn’t really work for me (Torq made me feel physically sick, and Rego tastes vile), but I find Cyclone works really well, even though it’s not specifically a recovery drink.

It’s what works for you, but I’d also say you’re overtraining, and probably under estimating how much sleep you need!

if you want to lose fat then you need to do two things, run your blood sugar right down without going anaerobic, stay under 60% of your max heart rate

Wrong. People far more knowledgable than you (and probably also me) have already replied on this one – you’re just repeating a load of myths there.

run your blood sugar right down

Don’t do this, as it’ll make your appetite go crazy and you’ll stuff your face with food you like which will come with extra fat etc. If you take a moderate amount of carbs during a ride you’ll keep the fat burning going, since you still need carbs to burn fat. The mistake most people make is to ride too hard and not eat enough of the right stuff.

You can do good base training on the road, it’s not too hard. Ignore the 120-130bpm figure though, that depends entirely on you. For me, it’s 140-156bpm based on a blood lactate test. You can also take it up a bit on hills but not so you’re puffing and blowing. You should always be able to hold a conversation – even if it’s with yourself since none of your mates want to join you on your lonely plods around flat A roads.

Torq made me feel physically sick

I bet you drank the chocolate one, didn’t you? 🙂

6packs are all about having a low bodyfat count of something like 8or9% or less as opposed to a specific diet/regime as the simple fact is, if there is too much fat they aint gonna show, btw i’ve not got one too damn lazy.

six pack here and measured at 14.5% body fat. always had it, never even have to try.

So, i do the daily 45 miles or something round commute, a 5-10km run 5 days a week and have picked up my swimming again.

If I did that much exercise I’d be spending all my spare time asleep.

Eat well, no need to take on board crappy food, common sense really… and crappy food won’t have the energy and nutrients that your body will be screaming for with the amount you’re doing. Cut something out twice a week- 45miles a day is quite a lot of biking, and swap it for half hour of abs training. Swimming back stroke with good deep kick should do your abs some good too.

Protein shakes ? up to you but I’d rather eat properly.

Kev

I’m a tiny 5’7 inches…

5’7″ = tiny, really ?

if you want to lose fat then you need to do two things, run your blood sugar right down without going anaerobic, stay under 60% of your max heart rate, and you need to burn more than you eat.

Quite a lot of BS already on this thread, but that takes the biscuit.

Running your blood sugar down means you will go into a state of Hypoglycaemia, which is potentially very dangerous.

To burn fat you need carbohydrate (glycogen in liver/muscles), as even the most efficient fat burning excersizes will use MORE carbohydrate than fat. If you have very little carbohydrate present your body will stop using carbohydrate AND fats and start breaking down muscle protein.

Basically, eat properly and often when exercising, with a balance of carbs and protein, and limiting your fat intake – particularly saturated and processed fats.