Police Kettling Cyclists outside Olympic Opening

In your second post you admit that there is an element that is out for trouble, yet seem to want to justify their actions

Sorry, where exactly have I justified or condoned the actions of those who use CM as a platform for their own political agendas? Unlike you, I don’t blanket all CM riders as ‘troublemakers’, as you seem to. Did all ‘members’ set out to cause disruption? Did all ‘members’ assault police? Or was it in fact, as is evident in the video footage, just a very small minority who were actively involved in any incident?

You weren’t at the ride, yet you claim you ‘know’ that ” Your demo WAS designed to disrupt as much of the Olympic ceremony as possible”. So, once again, do you have proof that all those who participated were intent on causing disruption? And I have made no claim to be a ‘member’ of what you apparently perceive as a political movement. I have merely stated that I have participated in CM rides, is all, and am a supporter of the concept.

What is clear from this, is that CM riders need to be critical of how they are perceived, and for individuals to make decisions on the nature of their involvement. That there will always be individuals such as yourself who jusge from behind your keyboard, is not something that anyone else can be held responsible for. No matter how law-abiding, peacful and non-disruptive CM might be, there will always be those who oppose it. Such is the nature of our society.

Now, if you were to direct that same apparent ire at the taxi drivers protest, would you not argue that these people set out to cause maximum disruption, and should therefore have been similarly arrested? Because that protest (as opposed to simply a gathering) caused far more disruption to other Londoners than Friday’s CM did.

Go on then challenge my prejudices; It would seem far more people on here share at least some of them than side with you.

It also seems that far more people on here have absolutely no experience of CM from a participatory point of view yet feel quite free to express their views. As is often the case, a lack of actual experience and knowledge of something leads to ill-informed opinions and unfounded prejudice.

Duckman; have you ever been on a London CM ride?

CM went out looking for trouble. They found it. They cried about it. Boo hoo.

What surprises me most of all about this thread, is that Cougar hasn’t posted anything.

He usually pops along with a few pertinent questions, and I’m surprised he hasn’t asked the CM press guy anything.

Perhaps he’s on holiday?

What surprises me most of all about this thread, is that Cougar hasn’t posted anything.

He usually pops along with a few pertinent questions, and I’m surprised he hasn’t asked the CM press guy anything.

Perhaps he’s on holiday?
Oh he’s up there, waiting for a satisfactory response to his pertinent question 😉

Now, if you were to direct that same apparent ire at the taxi drivers protest, would you not argue that these people set out to cause maximum disruption, and should therefore have been similarly arrested? Because that protest (as opposed to simply a gathering) caused far more disruption to other Londoners than Friday’s CM did.

I didn’t see the taxi drivers assaulting police officers or chanting ‘**** the police’ or ‘**** the olympics’

The CM protesters gathering were not arrested for causing disruption to traffic, they were arrested for behaviour likely to create a breach of the peace – the video of that police officer being attacked was absolutely disgusting, and in trying to defend what happened there, you serve only to damage both your own argument, and the reputation of the entire Critical Mass movement

I’m prepared to go out on a limb here and guess that the people on here readily criticising you, are people who probably have a lot more knowledge on the subject, about riding on city streets. And compromise is indeed the answer. Though, despite you claiming this, I see precious little of it from CM.

Do you not find it ironic that James Murdoch in sponsoring the Skyride etc, and Boris Johnson and Barclays for that matter, have done more for cycling than you?

I’m equally prepared to ‘go out on a limb’ and suggest you don’t know me, and have no actual idea of my involvement in promoting cycling in London. I suspect it’s possibly more than you have achieved. And i’d also hazard a guess that I have somewhat more experience of riding in London than you, if you are a Manchester resident. Have you ever been on a London CM ride?

Oh dear. Mike – you’re on a cycling forum. This is meant to be your natural audience. Your core support!

This is a forum that appears to cater for a particularly narrow demographic of all cyclists, from what I can see. As I’ve now mentioned several times; cyclists are not one homogenous group, rather a disparate collection of diverse individuals. We come from all walks of life, social backgrounds, cultures and political affiliations. There is never going to be a truly universal and harmonious consensus amongst us. To believe such would be foolish.

What I have noticed, is that by challenging perceptions, I have provoked many reactions, and whilst overwhelmingly opinion may be contrary to mine, it still appears that most people commenting here have no personal experience of CM other than what they see repeated in various media, not all of which can be claimed to be at all impartial, let’s face it.

So, is it not better to actually find out for yourself, rather than basing your opinions on what others tell you?

Do they give out the Acid before the ride or do you need to bring your own?

Are you incapable of accepting someone may have a differing viewpoint, without resorting to cheap insults? am I not entitled to have my own opinion, as you are? We see things differently. Do you have a problem with that?

Mike, you’re just replying to the people who are the most inflammatory. Be careful; they’re veterans of this sort of thing 😉

Free acid? yippee!

This is a forum that appears to cater for a particularly narrow demographic of all cyclists, from what I can see. As I’ve now mentioned several times; cyclists are not one homogenous group, rather a disparate collection of diverse individuals. We come from all walks of life, social backgrounds, cultures and political affiliations. There is never going to be a truly universal and harmonious consensus amongst us. To believe such would be foolish.

There seems to be such a harmonious consensus against your opinion and against CM in general though, doesn’t there? 🙂

When the likes of Junky and I (a disparate, albeit small, collection of diverse individuals) agree with each other, etc….

Your experience of this forum is one thread, where you’ve been a sock puppet.

I’m equally prepared to ‘go out on a limb’ and suggest you don’t know me, and have no actual idea of my involvement in promoting cycling in London. I suspect it’s possibly more than you have achieved. And i’d also hazard a guess that I have somewhat more experience of riding in London than you,

And I’d wager that I’ve got more people with their bums on saddles and enjoying riding bikes than you, but then that’s just my opinion. As someone who rides across town every day, as well as having a job that involved riding all over town a couple of years back (A job in the bike industry, where I helped make people’s experience of cycling better, as it happens), then I’d also wager that your experience of cycling in London is irrelevant.

I’ve been on CM rides in the past, but ever since the “movement” was taken over by asshats, I’ve avoided them. This recent spat of asshattery has done nothing to encourage me to return.

Mike, you’re just replying to the people who are the most inflammatory. Be careful; they’re veterans of this sort of thing

Oh, am i being ‘trolled’ or whatever it’s called? Ah. Maybe time to just ignore certain people then, and go and do something more productive, like fit new lights to my bike; can’t be riding around without lights at night now, can we? Because that would be illegal.

So, is it not better to actually find out for yourself, rather than basing your opinions on what others tell you?

I have experienced a few London Critical Masses, not as a participant but as an observer (in a car, on a bike and as a pedestrian) and they seemed rudderless and pointless so I won’t be an active participant as I have far better and more constructive things to do with my time.

Oh, am i being ‘trolled’ or whatever it’s called? Ah. Maybe time to just ignore certain people then, and go and do something more productive, like fit new lights to my bike; can’t be riding around without lights at night now, can we? Because that would be illegal.

Well, I was mainly suggesting you reply to some others, this discourse is much needed by the sounds of it.
Be careful without lights in the dark, people won’t be able to see you as easily and they might knock you off your bike by mistake.

So, once again, do you have proof that all those who participated were intent on causing disruption?

Well, given that Critical Mass is not ‘organised’ by anyone how would you get that proof? A quick googling shows that quite a few people were promoting this as an attempt to disrupt the Olympics. But of course that is just the view of a few individulas (who happen to come together to celebrate cycling), not the view of CM itself. Becuase it apparently has no views although it does seemingly have an objective.
As I said before. Your disingenuousness won’t win you any friends.

It also seems that far more people on here have absolutely no experience of CM from a participatory point of view yet feel quite free to express their views.

I have absolutely no experience of CM, my views are formed solely from this thread. Specifically, I’ve seen a lot of rebuttal about what CM aren’t, but what CM are seems to be thus far elusive. Is it a secret?

Oh he’s up there, waiting for a satisfactory response to his pertinent question

I get that a lot.

This is a forum that appears to cater for a particularly narrow demographic of all cyclists, from what I can see.

I’d be hard pressed to think of a demographic not represented on STW, to be honest (inside or outside of cycling). Swiss lifeguards, perhaps. But I wouldn’t like to bet on that.

is it not better to actually find out for yourself

Oddly, that’s exactly what I’m trying to do.

This is a forum that appears to cater for a particularly narrow demographic of all cyclists, from what I can see.

Quite the opposite, I’d say. Especially compared to a more road oriented forum.

Far more variations of mountain biking, plus a quite significant road cycling contingent too. Everything from sick to the power of rad BMXers, to downhillers to out for a ride in the hills to cyclocross to towpath riders, XC racers, roadies, long distance tourers, commuters (in and out of the city), chain gangers, … all on here. People that drive to go cycling, people that out of principle see cars and bikes as mutually exclusive, …

And many of us tick many more than one box there.

Mike–the vast majority of antagonists on here enjoy baiting, its their little pleasure, so when a new fish comes along they get very excited, but its a waste of time ‘reasoning’ , they have a set of prejudices that are reinforced all around us in daily discourse, media, websites, forums, so they feel righteous in their ignorance, and any who disagree with this path ….well they’re, asshats !!!

For what its worth where i live, n wales, we had a couple of ‘mass’ rides years ago protesting against a proposed by-pass, among the fifty or so riders was a CTC campaign officer, a bloke who now is part of sustrans wales, and other assorted activists. Like most CMs’ passed off with no problems, and was nice to feel safe on some A roads for a change, — the by pass wasn’t built but thats another story.

As you must already be aware cyclists are a weird lot, and for every friendly one there is an opposite…….

I wasn’t at that particular junction, and i have already stated that there are times when the group stops and blocks junctions, however they don’t usually do so for very long, just a few minutes, then move away. How long was that particular junction blocked for?

So why does it matter how long the junction was blocked for?

The fact that they chose to block a junction at all makes your statement that they are “Just out for a ride” sound like total b0ll0cks wouldn’t you say ?

As it happens it was probably somewhere between 5 and 10 minutes (didn’t time it as I was a pedestrian observing it, not a driver)

That’s a he’ll of a long time to be sat watching the traffic lights going red-green-red-green etc.

All the while the CM Members (I’m not going to believe there is no organisation- sorry) were goading the drivers that were being held up and laughing at them trying to provoke a reaction so they can then Cry “assault” etc etc.

As I said before, complete bunch of Nobbers, adolescent toss bags.

(this was my first experience of CM, never heard of them before, and that’s the impression that I went away with)

You lot need a new PR department, because currently, you are fooking it up completely.

Mike – you are certainly not being ‘trolled’. That would actually be a lot easier for you. This is a cycling forum, that while often being cynical, contains a lot of people who are passionate about the subject. I’m one of them. At the time when I was working in Manchester city centre, commuting by bike every single day, we all, without exception regarded CM as a bunch of misguided idiots, and opportunists, who not only achieved absolutely nothing positive, but managed to turn public opinion against us

If you’re incapable of seeing this then you need to take a step back and take a long hard look at the reality of the situation, not the ridiculous and cloud-cuckoo-land ‘ideals’

but what CM are seems to be thus far elusive. Is it a secret?

they are the rag-tag crew of a rudderless ship on a mission to do nothing whatsoever at all and in doing so raise awareness of their plight.

So, once again, do you have proof that all those who participated were intent on causing disruption?

Has anyone said that but you seem to insist the trouble was all caused by the coppers ignoring your rights and make no mention of your own responsibilities
To then go on a wild rabid insult of us, as binners notes people who should be your natural allies. What ever you think of us we are , as a general rule dedciated cyclists and I would hazard a guess clocking up more miles than the “average cyclist” you claim tp represent.

Really if you cannot get us on board and you manage to unite as broad a church as me , Zulu, binners and Cpt….i salute you, i thought i was impossible never mind over a cycling issue

I know you will ignore all this but there is some useful information here on how you could at least not alienate you natural supporters never mind what you do to car drivers/other road users.
I know you feel like you are banging your head against a brick wall. trust us it is a mutual feeling 😉 but at least reflect on the fact that even cyclists disagree with you – to say we are not reflective is arrogant pish which no doubt comes easily to you if your posts are anything to go by- I dont mean to be personal but nothing posted so far seem to have made you think or reflect

You do a great disservice to cyclist with your actions though your aims and motivations are noble your methods are as stupid , not well though out and it counter productive…but hey you know your rights and everyone else can go **** themselves right

PS Rudebowy seems to hold some strong opinions about the forum for a new poster who has only ever posted on this issue

they have a set of prejudices that are reinforced all around us in daily discourse, media, websites, forums, so they feel righteous in their ignorance, and any who disagree with this path ….well they’re, asshats

Aye we need to be more open minded inclusive and considerate of others opinions like you OH THE IRONING

Mods – please check the IP addresses of the brand new anonymous members on this thread. They are the virtual equivalent of a bandana’d protester 😀

Lol!

Dylan from Bangor just signed up to say how much he supports the opinions of someone from London.

Proper LOL at crikey – ‘chinny reckon’. I’ve not heard that for 25 years 😀

Is it too late to tutt disapproving?

Can’t claim the idea; it was used on here a week or so ago, just recycling the goodness… 🙂

Critical Mass have done nothing wrong a group of cyclist’s is how threatening?

Certainly living in E11 my thought are with them hope they all get off they’ve done nothing wrong!

Locog have shut off rights of access for years why shouldn’t people protest about that at the least opportune moment?

Why should they be physically abused for riding bikes, I’ve ben at parties that have been pigged and been treated better…

I’ve ben at parties that have been pigged and been treated better…

Awesome but, in English, WTF are you trying to say.

Really should have mass protested Box hill. I mean think of the impact and good will you could have generated sticking it to the man , LOCOG and standing up for your inalienable rights…I mean there was only a million or so there to watch the race but **** them you got rights, right

Was there any jelly?

If they want to protest against the Olympics, then **** me! Good ****ing luck to ’em! But WTF has this got to do with cycling? Opportunism. Pure and simple. They’re idiots! Who are doing considerably more harm than good

If you’re going to protest, then do it!!! But FFS grow a pair and stop hiding behind other people to do it, you shithouses!

…If you’re going to protest, then do it!!! But FFS grow a pair and stop hiding behind other people to do it, you shithouses!

I politely request your permission to get this printed on a Teeshirt.

Locog have shut off rights of access for years why shouldn’t people protest about that at the least opportune moment?

Well for one it’s probably too late now, stable door shut and all that.

Cyclists passing along gently don’t pose a threat just cause nuisance, those assaulting Police officers do clearly cause a threat.

Awesome but, in English, WTF are you trying to say.

De babylonians was all up in his grill and ting, innit blud, yougetmeyeah?

Or something.

Binners/nealglover – Get printing those t-shirts, gentlemen!

Printed on a teeshirt?

It should be carved in the stone floor of the Houses of Parliament.

Binners FTW.

….Locog have shut off rights of access for years why shouldn’t people protest about that at the least opportune moment?

It’s not a “Protest” though is it.

According to the CM “press officer” It’s just a few people out for a ride enjoying themselves right ?

So that statement, wether correct or not. Is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

Next.

Police have been hassling CM for years because they don’t agree to protest rules, why would they?

They’re a group of people riding bikes not a set protest, the police can’t deal with this and now seem to abuse the group freely?

Why do cyclists as a group need to tell the police where they are going, why should they tell the police where they are going, it’s a celebration of cycling not a protest it’s the authorities who get it routinely wrong.

They seem to find a group of cyclists riding where they want on a Friday night intimidating?

Police have been hassling CM for years because they don’t agree to protest rules, why would they?

Stick it to the man you and your mates just happily riding for no reason whatsoever to nowhere to say nothing about anything

Binners T-Shirt [in bold above] for the CM dude.

Ok, A Poll!

Do you think Critical Mass is a Protest movement?
Click if you think Yes Click if you think No

Does Critical Mass harm Cyclists’ public image?
Click if you think Yes Click if you think No

Get voting guys, Democracy wins!
I’m off to get more beer… Back soon 😉

Critical mass is a celebration of cycling it’s great if anything Friday has confirmed how lax I’ve been in celebrating cycling, not any more…

Drac,

Rules – Multiple accounts are not allowed. One member – One account.

Negative use of the forum – Any attempt to circumvent any suspension by re-registering.

Do you suspect that there are breaches of the above on this thread? 😀 Is it your business to be bothered if that’s the case?