Later

To be fair, you don’t seem to be able to deal with what it is either.

Make your bloody mind up otherwise you just look like a tit.

they are so loosely organised they cannot remember what they are organising for 😉

Freddies you need to feel the vibes, wonder what you would make of CM’s in Budapest ?

junkyard,
Thats probably true 😀

I love this forum.

That is all.

How many here actively take part in events to promote cyclist awareness from motorists?
Better then to bury your heads in the sand.bitch about it in private and do nothing.

OH look theyve installed a cycle land 😀 how handy is that? i wonder what prompted them to do such a thing?
Certainly not the ones that moan and bitch about CM and call them all sorts of names.In fact many here are acting towards this group in the manner motorists act towards cyclists in the first place.

rudebwoy? Could it be?

How many here actively take part in events to promote cyclist awareness from motorists?
Better then to bury your heads in the sand.bitch about it in private and do nothing.

And how many of the idiots assaulting police officers, deliberately blocking junctions, riding through red lights, antagonising motorists and generally causing as much trouble as possible were “actively taking part in events to promote cyclist awareness” ???

None.

Furtunately I don’t live in London and don’t plan to either, so this has no effect whatsoever on me. It does, however, give me one more reason for not going.
Apologies for the interruption.

How many here actively take part in events to promote cyclist awareness from motorists?

I don’t need to take part in events to do that, I ride in a way that promotes co-operation between cyclists and motorists all the time. Example at weekend I got to some traffic light controlled roadworks on an uphill section, I was first at the lights with about 6 cars behind me when they changed to green, I waved the cars through first rather hold me behind them for the next 500 metres. Cost me 15 seconds, got a thumbs up from the last driver through, demonstrated to some drivers that we can share the space on the roads, and hopefully they will consider the same in future.

More people are riding bikes than have been for years. The Times campaign is significant in coming from such an establishment organisation, and we have cycling hero’s in the public eye. Now is a great time to promote good will and co-operation to achieve greater safety for cyclists, and a very very bad time too destroy the good will that is being built up.

CM is damaging cycling, creating enemies on the road, and making targets out of every cyclist who has to deal with the aftermath of their stupidity, they don’t represent me or my cycling friends, and I will happily tell the world what idiots they are.

double post

generally telling the strongest nation for competitive cycling that they can bugger off and do it somewhere else

🙄

This thread really makes me realise that I have very little in common with most of the regulars on here except for the fact that I work in a job that allows me to sit in front of a computer all day arguing with strangers on the internet instead of doing any actual work and I own a bike.

Another thing it has made me realise is that up until now my views of CM were that it was entirely made up of whining middle class kids out to cause trouble. I now realise that this view came from what I had read in the media and from a form of groupthink from talking to my friends.

My original view may well have been correct but I think I’ll get down to a ride next time to see what it’s all about. My original opinion may well have been correct but at least I’ll be able to come back on here and argue against CM using examples from my own personal experience.

Thanks binners. This is what made me realise just how judgmental I was being.

Take more than a casual glance at the CM gimps that you see on the average Friday evening ride, and their bikes, and one thing strikes me. They’re all wearing jeans for a start!

Congrats on the enlightenment. Every days a school day eh?

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI[/video]

I am interested to hear what ways an event like CM could be improved, as I don’t think this discussion is really moving forward in a positive way, towards a reasonable solution for all.

OK time for constructive criticism.

CM has a privileged status. There are to my knowledge no other platforms in London which allow such a mass gathering of people with a political message to raise awareness. Do all you can to protect that status, because if it’s taken away, that’s it.

Ask yourself… what do we stand for? are we a group celebrating cycling? a group that’s prepared to push legal rights beyond what a normal member of the public might do? an activism/protest group prepared to stand up and use civil disobedience?

Keep the Police on your side. They are your friends.

If the Police ask you (as a large group) not to go somewhere, then ask yourself….

A. are we a group that is prepared to stand up and say “No! we are here to exercise our rights. We are prepared to fight our position, jeopardise our legal status and put at risk the support of the Police, TFL, London Authorities, etc.” ?

or B. are we a group that is there to celebrate cycling, to get positive media and public attention, to say “actually, we understand the Police may have no legal right or authority to impose a restriction, but you know what… actually we prefer positive PR, so in this case yeah we’re not going to use civil disobedience because it will get us nowhere and won’t help our cause” ?

Keep the cycling masses on your side, the motorists on your side, the Police, TFL, the London Boroughs, the London (and other) MPs, on your side. Disobedience pi55es off the Police, while the others are the ones you are trying to convince to implement cycling friendly solutions.

It appears option A. above was chosen on Friday, and although CM may be within it’s legal rights, it was not within the position that CM apparently stands for. Now might be a time to reflect within, and not try to win over others, or challenge others opinions.

OK time for constructive criticism.

Isn’t this one of the most arrogant statements on here? How can you be so absolutely sure that there have been no constuctive comments prior to your post? Time to stop reading now that the ill-informed are commenting.
It has been an interesting thread up until now. 🙁

Isn’t this one of the most arrogant statements on here?

Relatively, probably not.

In fact many here are acting towards this group in the manner motorists act towards cyclists in the first place.

they are acting like car drivers. Hey cars respect me and obey the laws but when I am with my mates and there are enough of us **** you we will ignore the rules and do as we please because we are the numbers and you dont count …which is pretty much the same attitude you get from cars…same thing just on bike.

I am interested to hear what ways an event like CM could be improved, as I don’t think this discussion is really moving forward in a positive way, towards a reasonable solution for all.

Its been said earlier, but I agree so I’ll repeat it.
Don’t delay people trying to get home on a Friday evening: do it any other time and you won’t make as many enemies.
Do it on Monday mornings, if you can get out of bed in time.

Also, don’t take on the police. Confrontation is their game. You lose, they win. They are pros and are always better prepared. Whether you are right or wrong, and 178 people released without charge after arrest suggests the majority weren’t acting criminally, act with a bit more sense. If the police have hired extra vehicles for transporting away bikes, then there’s only one outcome.
And when they win, they use their press officer to write the story they want in every official news outlet, the public believes it, and you make more enemies.

And if you’re a group celebration of cycling, don’t act like an anti-Olympic protest. Or any other political protest. You will be treated as a protest group.

How about doing something positive rather than just annoying those you are trying to perusade?
organised bikes rides on Saturday for car drivers to experience the roads?

Litlle village fete/festival of cycling with some useful information stands on say injuries and how they are caused and checking people’s bikes

Going to schools to promote it to kids/parents for the school run

Engage with those who make cycle routes and take them out for a ride to see where they dont work and why

Anything except block the roads and annoy those you are trying to convince.
As I said it is the MTB equivalent of using a footpath on a bank holiday to confront walkers to persuade them to respect us and support our right for greater acces…i fail to see how hindering their rights will make them respect or increase ours…can anyone at CM explain how that would work?

Again i support their goals but the methods are counter productive…if i wanted to get folk to be annoyed with cyclists what i would do is CM type stuff

And if you’re a group celebration of cycling, don’t act like an anti-Olympic protest. Or any other political protest. You will be treated as a protest group.

Agreed.

The hordes of commuters that are taking to the roads every day as a result of the Olympics going on are doing far more as a group celebration of cycling than Critical Mass. They are also doing far more to improve the image of cycling in cities.

but not thet **** in jeans and fixies 😉
For the CM people I have no objection to anyone who rides bikes dressed however they like…except fat people in lycra as that is just wrong. 😀

Keep the Police on your side. They are your friends.

Are you for real, they are paid servants of the state, they do as their masters wish, they are purely instruments of control, i know there are some naive people about, but that takes some topping.

You are right its a police state here…thanks for the head up

Why not go to China and protest on behalf of Tibet and the Dalai Lama,women drivers in Saudi etc.

I hope you are young and grow up a bit , FWIW I think you just topped naive comments

We’re living in a police state, are we?

Is that the word down in the common room?! Here’s a comment on the Olympic ceremony from that well known supporter of oppressive regimes and tyrants worldwide – Shami Chakrabarti – after carrying a flag herself on Friday night

When the emails and texts came in from friends across the political spectrum over the weekend, one in particular noticed the poignant contrast between the Beijing and London approach. In China, human rights campaigners get locked up; in Britain, even the most irritating gets to carry the Olympic flag.

Yeah…. right on!!!! Revolution!!!! 🙄

>Keep the Police on your side. They are your friends.

Are you for real, they are paid servants of the state, they do as their masters wish, they are purely instruments of control, i know there are some naive people about, but that takes some topping.
Yes, that’s right, there’s a big plan which the Masters are executing. It’s a very meticulous one with all the possible outcomes covered for. There is zero chance that the people in charge are a disparate group of individuals all fighting for their own personal power to change matters which are important to them. There is zero chance that the Police are a group of individuals each with a brain and their own personal approach, morality, agenda and families.
I’m afraid that, to me at least, your comment simply comes across as ignorant and overly simplistic.
Don’t ever forget that everyone in this world has a brain, just like you.

_______________________________________________
Don’t forget, Page 8 for the poll!

for me a couple of things have come out of this thread

1. Just because we ride a bike it doesn’t mean we’re all in a club. Perhaps we misunderstand the diversity of people who use bicycles? Its easy to think that everyone thinks like us.

2. the majority of people on here are not interested in direct protest, prefering to use the well established and less confrontational approaches. No mass trespass for us. I’m fairly sure its why cylcing and cyclists are still marginalised in the UK despite some encouraging recent signs. the has been an interesting and fairly unpleasant set of comments about the appearance of those invloved in direct action. I’m guessing those comments would also be levelled at the road protest groups, reclaim the streets etc (actually someone asked what had happened to them – they were infiltrated by the police and disbanded as a result).

My opinion of the whole shebang? CM perform a role within the procycling lobby. They are at the other end of the spectrum to most people on here. Do they damage the reputation of cycling and cyclists? I very much doubt it. Car drivers and others have brains also. If they already hate cyclists then it makes no difference. If they don’t then I suspect they are able to differentitate between CM on a friday in london etc and a group of roadies out on a club ride on a sunday. The ‘offended of chichester’ style of critique on here is as embarrassing as it is pointless.

you have little understanding of these things, police as individuals may well be ok– but as a group they are under instruction/orders —theirs is an instituationalised world, goes with the job, and they behave accordingly, its nothing particularly personal, they do as they are told— much like many on here—- just don’t question them eh????

Ever wonder how things change ????//

By accepting whatever comes your way ????

Lot of people seem to live on their knees, its good to stand up and fight for your beliefs, suppose it depends on your life experiences….

* fetches tin foil hat *

rudebwoy – Member

you have little understanding of these things, police as individuals may well be ok– but as a group they are under instruction/orders —theirs is an instituationalised world, goes with the job, and they behave accordingly, its nothing particularly personal, they do as they are told— much like many on here—- just don’t question them eh????

Ever wonder how things change ????//

By accepting whatever comes your way ????

Lot of people seem to live on their knees, its good to stand up and fight for your beliefs, suppose it depends on your life experiences….

Right on, nevermind the SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPLE, let’s man(or woman) the barricades brother!!!!1

Yossarian– thats a pretty good summary, the angry of chichester will be on you !!

RIGHT ON COMRADE!!!!!

Car drivers and others have brains also.

a spurious claim, and one that you’ll be hard pressed to find evidence for..

The mass trespass comparisons are ridiculous.

The mass trespass was an organized event to show majority support for access to land controlled by a minority.

Cycling is a minority (if growing) activity, trying to improve provisions. This needs to be done by persuading the majority (car drivers) that its a good thing for everyone.

you have little understanding of these things, police as individuals may well be ok– but as a group they are under instruction/orders —theirs is an instituationalised world, goes with the job, and they behave accordingly, its nothing particularly personal, they do as they are told— much like many on here—- just don’t question them eh????

Ever wonder how things change ????//

By accepting whatever comes your way ????

Lot of people seem to live on their knees, its good to stand up and fight for your beliefs, suppose it depends on your life experiences….

this is actually pretty accurate once you take the emotional language out. and the question marks 🙂

The mass trespass comparisons are ridiculous.

it wasn’t really a direct comparision though. I’m just pointing out that most people on here wouldn’t be prepared to act in a way that directly challenged ‘authority’ or deliberately broke the law. The antiquated trail designations that we regularly discuss on here should be evidence of our reluctance to act.

The

‘offended of chichester’

– What?

So, those that take issue with CM’s antics are small minded little Englanders from the well healed provinces – slightly patronising.

Would you take peoples ‘critique’s’ more seriously if they were modish zeitgarians from upper west Shoreditch?

But you have to realise what your trying to change, its not just the authorities, its the mind set of the the majority of road users that also need changing.

Turning cycling into a protest movement is not the right method for achieving our goals.

Would you take peoples ‘critique’s’ more seriously if they were modish zeitgarians from upper west Shoreditch?

i would take them more seriously if they demonstrated an ounce of awareness that wasn’t underpinned by puerile and feeble attempts to either be funny or insulting.

But you have to realise what your trying to change, its not just the authorities, its the mind set of the the majority of road users that also need changing.

But it IS the authorities that prosecute people after they’ve killed cyclists, that designate trasil usage, that allocate money for cycling improvements and so on and so forth. Getting drivers onside is a relatively small part of a bigger picture. Still important I agree but not the only target by any means.

Turning cycling into a protest movement is not the right method for achieving our goals.

What are ‘our’ goals? Are yours the same as mine or is owning a bicycle the only thing we have in common?

The mass trespass on Kinder Scout, it is relevant– faced with armed gamekeepers, my grandfather was on the moor that day- an organised protest by an offshoot of the young communists– these skirmishes had been going on for ages, but on this day the sheer mass and attendant publicity — helped to bring attention to an issue that was between the rich and poor, oh and the police were on the side of …… the landowners…..

So, those that take issue with CM’s antics are small minded little Englanders from the well healed provinces – slightly patronising.

I think what some of us are taking offence at is the way that CM are being attacked based on what they wear and the bikes they choose to ride as much as their actions.

It’s judging people based on their appearance and lifestyles rather than their actions that earns the ‘Little Englander’ tag.