Podium girls

For the hour I was there they talked of nothing but how they looked, what made them look better, what made them look worse.

But surely this is because they’ve been “brainwashed” as to how important what they look like is?! Exactly what all that 80s stuff was trying to get rid of.
Or maybe… not. 😕

DezB

For the hour I was there they talked of nothing but how they looked, what made them look better, what made them look worse.

But surely this is because they’ve been “brainwashed” as to how important what they look like is?! Exactly what all that 80s stuff was trying to get rid of.
Or maybe… not. [/quote]

Sexual dimorphism.

Have you received your brainwashing racial awareness training to rid you of any subconscious bias you might be harboring?

Nope, I think the point is that I recognise it and try to avoid it, rather than remove it. Call it, being enlightened to my faults if that helps!

I can’t wait until all differences between genders, races and cultures are completely eradicated and we can surge forward as one amorphous grey blob of asexual blandness.

Wow, that was a leap! From legal and societal equality to physically being the same? Interesting, care to explain the logic here?

<snip> I sat near three women in the pub last night. <snip>

Not really a representative sample I would suggest. Besides, I’m not sure that the majority of feminists would argue that looking atrractive/make up use is intrinsically anti-feminist. Could be wrong though, I’m not a feminist!

Cycling Podcast covered this yesterday:

https://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/kilometre-0-tour-de-france-2017

Personally i don’t have too much of an issue with the podium girls, they aren’t scantily dressed, and they are doing a role they want to do, surely it is their choice and as stated, they serve a bigger role than just the prize giving, they are ambassadors for their town or area and are all intelligent ladies.

I think the far bigger issue for ladies, is why they are constantly treated as second class to the men on the actual bikes, why is there is no ladies Grand Tour, why do we feel ladies cycling is any less exciting?

If you look at tennis, there was a concerted drive to make pay equal the tournaments to be for both sexes and women’s tennis is watched by just as many people as the men’s

Team Sky should be reminded of the fact that the many millions they have, Brailsford originally stated he would have a woman’s team too a few years ago. Imagine if Sky did start a women’s team too as they promised and they all campaigned for proper televised racing and Grand Tours, i think they’d be taken seriously.

I think the podium girls is the last of the sports worries when it comes to the finer side of the sexes. I have a 7 year old daughter and i worry far more about the Little Mix videos she constantly wants to watch on Youtube as an example for her

But surely this is because they’ve been “brainwashed” as to how important what they look like is?! Exactly what all that 80s stuff was trying to get rid of.
Or maybe… not.

I think not.

Seems to me that the things that interest blokes have a lot of parrallels with male pre-historic role (hunting), and the things that interest women have a lot of parrallels with female prehistoric roles (gathering and nurturing).

I suspect blokes like riding bikes because it’s a bit like chasing prey and women like nurturing children buying crap they don’t need because it’s a lot like gathering berries and errr… nurturing children.

I’d really love to be wrong about this but I fear I’m not.

Peyote

Have you received your brainwashing racial awareness training to rid you of any subconscious bias you might be harboring?

Nope, I think the point is that I recognise it and try to avoid it, rather than remove it. Call it, being enlightened to my faults if that helps![/quote]

Oh dear, someone’s still a racist 😳

Seems to me that the things that interest blokes have a lot of parrallels with male pre-historic role (hunting), and the things that interest women have a lot of parrallels with female prehistoric roles (gathering and nurturing).

Evolutionary psychology? I’m not sure how accepted that is in scientific circles these days.

Oh dear, someone’s still a racist

Well yes, we all are.

I’m racially dimorphic.

Evolutionary psychology? I’m not sure how accepted that is in scientific circles these days.

Sounds implausible but I’d be interested in hearing an alternative theory to explain why women and men typically like different stuff and behave in different ways.

I used to think it was all nurture but having a child of each gender made me realize they assign themselves gender roles from the year dot regardless of what parents try to instill.

It sounds quite plausible when attempting to retrofit it to what we are currently living in, and has gained a fair amount of traction over the years. Trouble is, there’s very little evidence to back it up – we don’t really know how cave-folk lived. It may have been a matriarchal society for all we know!

I still believe it is mostly nuture, having a child of each gender I disagree with your assertion about the gender roles from year dot. That isn’t my experience. They are each individuals, and it could just be yours follow societal patterns and mine don’t!

DezB – I’m racially polymorphic. Still racist though!

It’s almost as if the debate has passed you by.

My understanding is the debate is about whether podium girls are “acceptable” these days. Some people think they are, some don’t, and some (probably 99% of the general public) don’t care.

I don’t have massively strong feelings as to whether they are a good or bad thing, but do feel strongly that if girls want to be podium girls then they are quite entitled to do that job.

If I am missing something then feel free to enlighten me. Or just endlessly re-paste that one ling thing you were doing earlier. Whatever.

It sounds quite plausible when attempting to retrofit it to what we are currently living in, and has gained a fair amount of traction over the years. Trouble is, there’s very little evidence to back it up – we don’t really know how cave-folk lived. It may have been a matriarchal society for all we know!

Well a matriarchal society would explain why women make most of the domestic decisions. …but I take your point there’s never going to be evidence beyond circumstantial and confirmation bias is always going to be a problem.

I still believe it is mostly nuture, having a child of each gender I disagree with your assertion about the gender roles from year dot. That isn’t my experience.

Well mine might be exceptions but I think the nurture has been taken out of the equation these days. Myself and all of our NCT friends (which was usually the sole peer group of our batch of babies for the first year of their life) were all painstaking in our efforts not to influence the kids on gender lines. Yet still the boys would want to pick up cars and bash them and the girls would want to make pretend cups of tea and feed dolls as soon as they could crawl and grasp something.

I’m just not convinced that I like bikes because I was brainwashed into it and my sister kids ‘cos she was brainwashed into it. …and this brainwashing is global…

Impossible to prove either way though.

Impossible to prove either way though.

I agree!

It’s always going to be a bit of personal choice as to which side of the fence you choose to fall on, and please don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that there aren’t any differences between men/women and boys/girls either physical or psychological. I do however think these differences are massively magnified by society and often used to create detrimental conditions for females which is essentially what I fundamentally disagree with.

Getting back to the thread title, the podium girls are just another (admittedly small) facet of the greater problem. FWIW I don’t think that the individual girls (well, women) are generally exploited in this example, it’s a step change to prostitution etc. I suppose it’s more the principle that I have a slight issue with. Should they be banned? I don’t know. I feel uncomfortable with there being an expectation for them being there in the first place.

Getting back to the thread title, the podium girls are just another (admittedly small) facet of the greater problem. FWIW I don’t think that the individual girls (well, women) are generally exploited in this example, it’s a step change to prostitution etc. I suppose it’s more the principle that I have a slight issue with. Should they be banned? I don’t know. I feel uncomfortable with there being an expectation for them being there in the first place.

If you *did* ban women from the stage at sporting events would you also ban women from the stage in theatres/pop videos? Should we go back to the Elizabethan convention that women’s roles are performed by men?

If you *did* ban women from the stage at sporting events would you also ban women from the stage in theatres/pop videos?

Should we go back to the Elizabethan convention that women’s roles are performed by men?

I’m not sure why you would want to do either of these. If a coherent argument could be put together as to why then I’d be happy to listen to it.

It’s certainly not something that I have read/heard within any feminist circles I’ve been party to. I guess the issues and concerns with these examples are different to those of the podium girls.

I’m not sure why you would want to do either of these.

I don’t want to do either I think we’ve got it right in the liberal west.

I thought when you said “Should they be banned? I don’t know.” you were considering advocating banning women from the stage at prize giving as an option. What *were* you considering advocating banning?

If I am missing something then feel free to enlighten me. Or just endlessly re-paste that one ling thing you were doing earlier. Whatever.

You were advancing the argument that as there are people willing to volunteer, then it must be ok. I thought we’d got past that, but apparently not. I guess that’s why my “endless” re-pastes were mostly unanswered.

If you *did* ban women from the stage at sporting events

It’s nothing to do with “banning”.. if they get a podium place in an event, they’re quite welcome! If they crash the podium to snog the winner, no worries! This is about employing totty to stand decoratively on the podium.

I thought when you said “Should they be banned? I don’t know.” you were considering advocating banning women from the stage at prize giving as an option. What *were* you considering advocating banning?

I think it should be an option, but I’m not sure if banning it is something I would support. Hence my “I don’t know”. I’m reluctant to ban anything if the truth be told, but recognise that some things are necessary.

Ultimately, I’d like the point of them being there to be removed, i.e. them not to be seen as trophies (and other reasons as previously explained on this thread) in which case banning would be pointless as their raison d’etre would’ve gone.

I think it should be an option, but I’m not sure if banning it is something I would support.

Who has asked for them to be banned?

It’s nothing to do with “banning”. snip This is about employing totty to stand decoratively on the podium.

Yes, and I’m trying to explore how you intend to stop that. Would you allow ugly women to stand on the podium? Would you allow attractive women but only if they had a real role – like handing chanpagne to the winner or presenting the trophy. Would you allow convincing female impersonators?

outofbreath

Would you allow convincing female impersonators?

Oh jesus, what kind of dinosaur are you? Obviously a transphobic one.

Other sex, genderqueer, pangender, non binary, transfeminine, tri-gender, two spirit, transmaculine, bi-gender, agender and androgyne people are not “female impersonators”. That’s hate speech.

Someone needs to check their privilege.

I dunno, Lily Savage and Dame Edna each planting a kiss on the cheek of the winner? Sounds ok.

Who has asked for them to be banned?

We’re struggling to work out exactly what action people do want.

We’re struggling to work out exactly what action people do want.

It’s a difficult one, because on the one hand it impacts on the employees directly, and on the other it’s supporting an unequal system that does require change. So, who cops it? Society, or the individual?

I think I’d err on the side of society if it was that simple.

Applying the same logic to pop videos and Elizabethan actors seems false. I suppose they have the back up that they are using skill/talent in their dancing/singing/acting rather than just being decorative. Quite nuanced though, depending on the performer and on how subjective you want to be.

Peyote

It’s a difficult one, because on the one hand it impacts on the employees directly, and on the other it’s supporting an unequal system that does require change.

What system is that exactly?

What system is that exactly?

The system that allows females to be treated as second class citizens compared to males.

We’re struggling to work out exactly what action people do want.

It’s a difficult one, because on the one hand it impacts on the employees directly, and on the other it’s supporting an unequal system that does require change. So, who cops it? Society, or the individual?

I think I’d err on the side of society if it was that simple.

Well that clears that up…

I tried, what do you want?

Some titillation, dinner on the table with the washing up done?

I tried, what do you want?

You were replying to this:

We’re struggling to work out exactly what action people do want.

We’re struggling to work out exactly what action people do want.

Who are you speaking for?

Who are you speaking for?

All those struggling to work out exactly what action people do want.

and what would I like?
something like this
EWS17_Tasmania_Race-2844 by Enduro World Series[/url], on Flickr
EWS17_Tasmania_Race-2863 by Enduro World Series[/url], on Flickr
Grown up, people celebrating and no need for some extra totty

Peyote

What system is that exactly?

The system that allows females to be treated as second class citizens compared to males. [/quote]

I wasn’t aware that women were second class citizens in France. What rights or privileges are they lacking there?

Yeah, that would be good Mikewsmith!

They’re currently discussing podium girls on ITV4’s TDF coverage.

It’s France, they have a different attitude. No Podium girls = no pay for them. OK it may be pocket money buts in their pockets

I wasn’t aware that women were second class citizens in France. What rights or privileges are they lacking there?

I don’t know, but if they echo what is happening here in Britain then there’s plenty to Google. Check out the 50:50 campaign for equal representation in parliament for a start. I’d be surprised if there wasn’t equivalents in France, but happy to be corrected.