Plumber / gas fitter / chimney help please

More on the ongoing saga of the building works at château TJ.

There was a series of those corrugated stainless steel flue liners in the chimney with metal gas cowls on the top. As part of the works the chmneys were rebuilt. The liners have just been dropped down the flues and ceramic gas cowls put on the chimney pots. Surely this is not right?
Previous were like this and atttached to the liner

Now like this and the liner just loose in the chimney

I am concerned that fumes can escape and they wont draw properly. No idea what the appliences were – some gas boilers and some gas fires I think.

Used to fit these for the Gas board years ago*

If it is a stainless steel liner then it should have attached

If its an open chimney i.e no liner it should have
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*things may hve changed tho..

I used to work here http://www.sfl.uk.com/ but can't remember the regulations.
I'll ask my lodger as he's a Gasrite (Corgi registered) plumber but he's not back until midnightish.
Whats stoping the liner falling down the chimney?

Nothing is stopping the liner falling down the chimney – they have just been allowed to drop until they jam – so there is a gap of a couple of metres between the top of flue liner and the cowl

I am certain no gas fitter was involved in this – another one of the architects stupid decisions. I think this is illegal but want to be sure.

Nothing is stopping the liner falling down the chimney – they have just been allowed to drop until they jam – so there is a gap of a couple of metres between the top of flue liner and the cowl

Oh that is so wrong

Thats what I thought. Winter is coming, folk will be using the heating and I am in the attic next to these flues. Scared of fumes I am.

What do I do? Inform scottish gas? I would like to get the architect in as much trouble as possible

Liners aren't good for a historic building/chimney

Why is that woodsman?

The stack was designed to work/breathe through the lime mortar and soft (comparable with modern) bricks, or breathable stone. Fitting a metal liner produces condensation between the outer liner material (metal), and the original chimney flue. Also, it would prevent the stack working properly if a traditional open fire is used.

If you google SPAB – Society for the Protection of Ancient Buildings, there will be an article on chimney flues.

Ta woodsman

The stack was designed to work/breathe through the lime mortar and soft (comparable with modern) bricks, or breathable stone. Fitting a metal liner produces condensation between the outer liner material (metal), and the original chimney flue. Also, it would prevent the stack working properly if a traditional open fire is used.

If its a gas fire then a continuous flue liner from fire to cowl will be required to prevent fumes from seeping into building. If it is an old building I doubt the integrity of the chimney can be guaranteed. If a traditional open fire is wanted then you remove the liner.

I think its a couple o gas fires but also flues for central heating boilers.

I guess numpty architect who specified this could be prosecuted? They also put a cap on the flue for my flame effect fire – that could have killed but I sussed it out and removed it.

what type of cap?

One of the pottery ones the sort of thing you put on a dead flue to prevent rain getting in. Printed on it was "not to be used with gas appliances"

Like this sort of thing

<shakes head>

I would get gas board round pronto to check everything

Gonna be tricky – there are 5 stacks involved with around 40 flues – 2 of which cannot be reached without scaffolding and I cannot remember which are which.

Gas board the best bet?

Firstly the flue must be attached so and be completly sealed the same has your boiler
has it works exactly the same.

Breathing bricks well the idea is there but the way you have been described there function on the
stack is incorrect.

regardless of age of the property, has you keep the internal warm if the building cant breath
then you will produce Damp!

Thats why when you board up the fire place and dont put in a vent and leave the chimney pot un-sealed
the air goes down the chimney as normal and just circulates and as no where to go then produces damp.

What ever you/they do, you must always create a seal and have no carbon monoxide leaks

If you are attaching your flue to a boiler then it needs to be double lined, internal to release Carbon Monoxide and the outer to bring/breath fresh air.
Has long as you seal in and around the top of chimney breast and liner and the liner is connected to the cowl
and connected to the boiler you will be fine and you will not get damp.

You may also need to re-point the chimney breast in your loft has well

To test the seal you can buy these capsules that you light with a match
and it releases smoke.
Place this at the bottom and check above and around joints to ensure no smoke
releases apart from where it needs to go.
But has you say there are gaps then do not use and get them back ASAP

agree with grantway there

Jeremy,
have you spoken to Stuart Brown yet?

aP – I tried – he didn't reply.

I still have his address – this is going to be years before its all sorted yet.

I will contact the architect for the job today and see what he has to say.

are you still alive or have you been overcome with fumes?

TJ, whatever you do, buy a carbon monoxide alarm, and screw it to the wall ceiling, it mat well save your life.
Screewfix or toolstation, and possibly argos do them.

Works like a smoke alarm, but detects carbon monoxide, that is a colourless and doesnt smell Gas, THAT KILLS .

Liners shouldn't be "allowed to drop until they jam" they should be either installed or removed

You can't just start taking liners out if there's a boiler using the flue

and much, much more

CORGI have no authority about checking gas safety its now Called GAS SAFE, and is a totally new company.

If you can get access to the rooms below you, and they have no gas fire fitted, get some smoke pellets , just light them and run outside, this will tell you which flu, the smoke belongs to, and also if its leaking into your rooms.

A qualified gas fitted must sign of all the installation, and it is possible to contact GAS SAFE, to do an inspection, if it fails the inspection, the fitter can be fined or jailed,depending on how serious the event is.

CORGI have no authority about checking gas safety its now Called GAS SAFE, and is a totally new company.

If you can get access to the rooms below you, and they have no gas fire fitted, get some smoke pellets , just light them and run outside, this will tell you which flu, the smoke belongs to, and also if its leaking into your rooms.

A qualified gas fitted must sign off all the installation, and it is possible to contact GAS SAFE, to do an inspection, if it fails the inspection, the fitter can be fined or jailed,depending on how serious the event is.

CORGI have no authority about checking gas safety its now Called GAS SAFE, and is a totally new company.

If you can get access to the rooms below you, and they have no gas fire fitted, get some smoke pellets , just light them and run outside, this will tell you which flu, the smoke belongs to, and also if its leaking into your rooms.

A qualified gas fitted must sign off all the installation, and it is possible to contact GAS SAFE, to do an inspection, if it fails the inspection, the fitter can be fined or jailed,depending on how serious the event is.

CORGI have no authority about checking gas safety its now Called GAS SAFE, and is a totally new company.

If you can get access to the rooms below you, and they have no gas fire fitted, get some smoke pellets , just light them and run outside, this will tell you which flu, the smoke belongs to, and also if its leaking into your rooms.

A qualified gas fitted must sign off all the installation, and it is possible to contact GAS SAFE, to do an inspection, if it fails the inspection, the fitter can be fined or jailed,depending on how serious the event is.

CORGI have no authority about checking gas safety its now Called GAS SAFE, and is a totally new company.

If you can get access to the rooms below you, and they have no gas fire fitted, get some smoke pellets , just light them and run outside, this will tell you which flu, the smoke belongs to, and also if its leaking into your rooms.

A qualified gas fitted must sign off all the installation, and it is possible to contact GAS SAFE, to do an inspection, if it fails the inspection, the fitter can be fined or jailed,depending on how serious the event is.

CORGI have no authority about checking gas safety its now Called GAS SAFE, and is a totally new company.

If you can get access to the rooms below you, and they have no gas fire fitted, get some smoke pellets , just light them and run outside, this will tell you which flu, the smoke belongs to, and also if its leaking into your rooms.

A qualified gas fitted must sign off all the installation, and it is possible to contact GAS SAFE, to do an inspection, if it fails the inspection, the fitter can be fined or jailed,depending on how serious the event is.

CORGI have no authority about checking gas safety its now Called GAS SAFE, and is a totally new company.

If you can get access to the rooms below you, and they have no gas fire fitted, get some smoke pellets , just light them and run outside, this will tell you which flu, the smoke belongs to, and also if its leaking into your rooms.

A qualified gas fitted must sign off all the installation, and it is possible to contact GAS SAFE, to do an inspection, if it fails the inspection, the fitter can be fined or jailed,depending on how serious the event is.

CORGI have no authority about checking gas safety its now Called GAS SAFE, and is a totally new company.

If you can get access to the rooms below you, and they have no gas fire fitted, get some smoke pellets , just light them and run outside, this will tell you which flu, the smoke belongs to, and also if its leaking into your rooms.

A qualified gas fitted must sign off all the installation, and it is possible to contact GAS SAFE, to do an inspection, if it fails the inspection, the fitter can be fined or jailed,depending on how serious the event is.

Much as I though chaps

I e mailed the numptyarchitect today and asked him about them – he has till end of the working day tomorrow to reply if not then the the gas board will be alerted.

I doubt the danger is high due to the fact the flues are fully lined with ceramic liners anyway – not just crumbly brick and the flues have been rebuilt totally above roof level.

I ain't gonna let it drop. I also found out today that he changed the terminal on my neighbours boiler where it goes thru the roof. Boiler is making funny noises now. Fortuatly I refused to let him tamper with my boiler flue which he also wanted to change

Can the architect be prosecuted for this? Or just the workies who did it under his instructions? I don't really want to get the workies in big trouble but would be happy to see the architect swing for it.

Edit – thanks project – does that apply in Scotland as well? I get the message :-0

What hapened above, god knows.

RIDDOR

What hapened above, god knows.

You gave some duff info on the testing of flues, that's what 🙂

Hmm – riddor – report as a "near miss"? tee hee – that could et him into trouble

Hi

Builder foreman chappie tell s me that where there was a copex?? corrugated steel flue it was attached to the terracotta gas cowl. I think it should have had a proper metal terminal. Can anyone confirm?

I have been up on the roof and had a look – there are definitely flue liners just sitting in chimneys with no connection to any terminal even teh terracotta ones

Architect has not even had the decency to get back in contact altho I know unofficially that he has been in contact with the foreman

Builder foreman chappie tell s me that where there was a copex?? corrugated steel flue it was attached to the terracotta gas cowl. I think it should have had a proper metal terminal. Can anyone confirm

"The flue must be connected to only one fireplace, and the flue must not vent more than one appliance (i.e. not shared with a gas back boiler). There must be no opening in the flue apart from the one that the appliance is installed into, and the one venting the gases into the air. A suitable terminal may be fitted, such as class GC1 (metal cowl), as regulations allow."

Sounds like a bodged job to me..

Called the Gas Board yet?

The flue is the copex and the terminal. It must be complete along it's length, ie joined, not holed, not restricted.

EDIT

It could be joined to those terminals