Plane crash in the alps

I’m still say…. yet to meet a chef who goes on a shotgun rampage because of the shitty work conditions in the catering industry.

I think some people find reasons to hate their job no matter what the working conditions are actually like, usually spoiled types with a victim mentality. If your working conditions are bad you make a rational decision to leave, not throw your toys out of the pram. I have no sympathy for these kinds of people, although I believe I once had an element of this attitude – I think or at least hope that I have lost it.

njee20 – Member
What? And why do you keep writing “pilok”, I genuinely don’t understand WTF you’re talking about. What’s the relevance in how long he’s been at the airline?

Opps! Should be “pilot” but I just wrote it as the way my mum pronounced pilot as “pilok” (local pronunciation) whatever that means.

Relevance? He joined in 2013 and he could intentionally be trained to fly with the intention to kill. Simple. If he has been flying for many years then you can explain differently. A fit young man … his head must be real messed up to become a pilot in order to kill everyone. Of course it is relevant.

🙄

GrahamS – Member

BBC now named the co-pilok as mass murderer.

No they haven’t. The BBC are not crash investigators.

They have simply reported that the prosecutor Brice Robin stated a deliberate act is “The most plausible interpretation”. [/quote]

Now ITV says it was a deliberate act of the co-pilok to make the plane dive. You only do so if you intend to crash the plane and to kill everyone.

I’m still say…. yet to meet a chef who goes on a shotgun rampage because of the shitty work conditions in the catering industry.

Well the phrase “going postal” comes from the US where a postal worker shot his colleagues due to work related issues.

@njee – the length of time he was a pilot is relevant, in that if he had mental health issues they may well have not come to light in the short time he was flying.

I’m still say…. yet to meet a chef who goes on a shotgun rampage because of the shitty work conditions in the catering industry.

Something that was once called ”going postal” due to the perceived frequency of US postal workers going on gun rampages.

Not sure how postman fit your “spoiled types with a victim mentality” diagnosis.

(Edit: beaten to the point by jambalaya)

Relevance? He joined in 2013 and he could intentionally be trained to fly with the intention to kill. Simple. If he has been flying for many years then you can explain differently. A fit young man … his head must be real messed up to become a pilot in order to kill everyone. Of course it is relevant.

What you’re doing there is making one huge assumption without any foundation in fact.

Re “deliberate act” that’s exactly what the chief prosecutor said at the press conferemce, the BBC etc are just reporting that.

Picking through this is going to be very interesting for the criminal psychologists.

Goody… I’m out with my criminal psychiatrist mate (a professor no less) tomorrow night. I doubt he’s going to tell me it was a cry for help.

pondo – Member

Relevance? He joined in 2013 and he could intentionally be trained to fly with the intention to kill. Simple. If he has been flying for many years then you can explain differently. A fit young man … his head must be real messed up to become a pilot in order to kill everyone. Of course it is relevant.

What you’re doing there is making one huge assumption without any foundation in fact. [/quote]

Then you need to test that theory/assumption … should be interesting to find out if their investigation match up. Let’s see.

He is still a mass murderer.

Now ITV says it was a deliberate act of the co-pilok to make the plane dive.

not ITV, sh1t it’ll be channel 5 next!

agree with Njee – until we have the facts this is just the media’s take on it…remember that poor girl that was murdered in bristol and the press ruined the odd bloke who lived next doors life when he had no involvement.

Please dont make a knee jerk reaction to this otherwise the paedatrician will be in trouble again when some idiot mistakes their sign for a paedophile.

Now ITV says it was a deliberate act of the co-pilok to make the plane dive.

ITV are not crash investigators either.
They are all just reporting what the prosecutor said.

You only do so if you intend to crash the plane and to kill everyone.

Really?

Here’s an alternative (less plausible but possible) scenario: the co-pilot takes ill / poisoned / has a stroke, and begins to hallucinate that he is making a controlled descent to land the plane at an airport. Deliberate action – but absolutely no conscious intention to kill himself or everyone else.

I’m sure an imaginative mind could come up with a dozen or more scenarios that would also be less plausible but possible.

To brand someone a mass-murderer just because that is the easiest scenario doesn’t mean it is correct. I hope they have more evidence for that than they are reporting.

It’s all over the news now with “… deliberate act … co-pilot … make plane dive”. 😮

Sometimes their job is to be there with the person as they follow through with it.

Really?!

Apparently so. At least this is how it was explained to me by the Samaritan I talked to (for about two hours).

How long he’d been a pilot is utterly irrelevant. You can have a breakdown at any point in life.

What is interesting is that while pilots are required to have a medial every six months or a year (I can’t remember which it is, but they go into the sim to be checked every six months) they don’t get psychological screening. I’m not sure I know enough about the subject to state that there is any potential value to that being done mind, but I do know that you can quantify with some degree of certainty, their potential risk of suicide, or at least some other wild reaction to a difficult situatin, based on profiling.

There have been a number of posts on here about people that have taken their own lives. I imagine that those who knew them will have some understanding of what a person goes through in the lead up to such an act. Clearly you aren’t thinking rationally. But more pertinently, it’s kind of pointless to judge someone who already died. It doesn’t bring anyone back, doesn’t change what happened. It’s just someone being angry. Unless you have a particular reason to be angry I’d say it’s a pointless reaction (to judge the pilot in any way).

yet to meet a chef who goes on a shotgun rampage because of the shitty work conditions in the catering industry.

A mate of mine used to be a pilot. The unusual shifts/changes in time zones/being in a tin can left him having to take drugs to get to sleep and drugs to stay awake. Thankfully he got out before it got too much, but his employers were not supportive.

And who’s to say his job had anything to do with his mental health state.

Very sad if it is suicide. If it was no one knows the exact details. Anyone who says he deliberately took the lives of all those on board is jumping to conclusions. Suicide is an awful thing, I doubt many people think right I am going to kill myself today, how many people can I take with me?

Some people on here show a complete lack on insight in to mental health 🙄

GrahamS – Member

ITV are not crash investigators either.
They are all just reporting what the prosecutor said.

Ok, they (all the news) reported what the prosecutor said …

Here’s an alternative (less plausible but possible) scenario: the co-pilot takes ill / poisoned / has a stroke, and begins to hallucinate that he is making a controlled descent to land the plane at an airport. Deliberate action – but absolutely no conscious intention to kill himself or everyone else.

Here is the possible answer:

28 yr old, fit and not overweight so I guess that will rule out many of the above. What’s of the above are left … let’s see …

I’m sure an imaginative mind could come up with a dozen or more scenarios that would also be less plausible but possible.

You need to start with imaginative minds first then put them to test. Then reduce the impossible and whatever remains should be the truth.

To brand someone a mass-murderer just because that is the easiest scenario doesn’t mean it is correct. I hope they have more evidence for that than they are reporting.

If you read what the prosecutor said then a deliberate act (usually with intention) to dive the plane can only mean one thing that is death. Therefore, he is a mass murderer.

Very sad if it is suicide. If it was no one knows the exact details. Anyone who says he deliberately took the lives of all those on board is jumping to conclusions. Suicide is an awful thing, I doubt many people think right I am going to kill myself today, how many people can I take with me?

I must say a couple of posters have turned this thread into a witch hunt, which is quite sad really. IMO that’s the point it crossed a line into bad taste.

Those responsible have made their opinions very clear, perhaps they should **** off duck out.

Then you need to test that theory/assumption … should be interesting to find out if their investigation match up.

No, I don’t need to do a thing – I can look at the facts as they are reported and draw my own conclusions. You can do the same, but you won’t do anything positive by wildly speculating.

It’s not just bad taste. It’s utterly pointless.

What possible good comes from reptetively stating that the pilot was a mass murderer? What does it change?

However, that said, if someone had lost someone on that flight and was making that post, I would understand it. Similarly, maybe those people driving that message have lost somone close in similar circumstances. That would also make that reaction understandable.

If you read what the prosecutor said then a deliberate act (usually with intention) to dive the plane can only mean one thing that is death. Therefore, he is a mass murderer.

I thought that murder was premeditated killing ?

If it is suicide of course he intentially put the aircraft in to the hillside. Was he thinking ha ha, how many people can I take with me??? I doubt it, things must have been pretty shit for him to take his own life, and at that point I doubt other people come in to it.

FunkyDunc – Member
I thought that murder was premeditated killing ?

Yes, he could have planned (rational intention) it if that is what you mean.

geetee1972 – Member

It’s not just bad taste. It’s utterly pointless.

How often do you fly?

🙄

How often do you fly?

Maybe once a quarter? Why do you ask?

Yes he could have planned to take his own life, but you do not know anymore than I do, in fact neither does the Prosecutor. He may have decided that life was that bad that death was a better place to be, but because his head was in a bad place, the fact that crew and passengers would die too may not have entered in to it, and thats not murder. But as said we will never know he reasoning. So what has been said is actually damaging.

IMO he is being called a ‘murderer’ because the alternative is that we can all be flying around in aircraft controlled by people who might potentially cause us to die.

To label him a murderer makes us all feel a little more secure because we know that he was different and it wont happen again tomorrow. Plus it takes the pressure of the industry to support their staff and improve conditions, afterall the guy was “just a nutter”

Ok, they (all the news) reported what the prosecutor said …

Better. And what the prosecutor apparently said was:

“The most plausible interpretation is that the co-pilot through a voluntary act had refused to open the cabin door to let the captain in. He pushed the button to trigger the aircraft to lose altitude. He operated this button for a reason we don’t know yet, but it appears that the reason was to destroy this plane.”

They also said that there was “absolute silence in the cockpit”.

So it’s not like they have evidence of the guy reading out his suicide note or an extremist message.

It’s certainly possible he did it all intentionally, maybe even likely, but it is far from certain (as far as we know from the reports to date).

Now ITV says it was a deliberate act of the co-pilok to make the plane dive. You only do so if you intend to crash the plane and to kill everyone.

The plane didn’t ‘dive’. I think this is where the news agencies are jumping the gun. Just because the co-pilot told the plane to descend does not mean he wanted it to crash killing all onboard. However, drawing that conclusion allows the news agencies to write alarmist headlines that will get plenty of attention, whilst destroying the life of a potentially innocent man and his greiving family.

There’s been some wild speculation on this thread. I’ll go one beyond. This isn’t speculation it’s pure fantasy and has nothing to do with these tragic events:

utter rubbish/
Young pilot feeling like most people do at some point in their lives – not much to live for, at some point argues with older pilot who has a fantastic pension plan and retirement conditions but won’t support his younger colleagues in their industrial action to obtain the same. Ends up flying with privileged older pilot on a particularly bad day and makes sure the older pilot won’t be benefiting from his fantastic pension./utter rubbish

How often do you fly?

How often do you fly? Perhaps you can enlighten us as to the relevance of that nugget?

Are you trying to reassure yourself that this guy was MASS MURDERERERER and therefore you’re still safe? Here’s something for you… flying is statistically just as safe as it was on Tuesday morning (well, very very minescule difference), all you’re doing by calling the co-pilot a mass murderer is being a pillock.

I don’t fly very often but someone I love very much flies every day and I don’t feel any different about her doing it today than I did on Tuesday morning (though I did squeeze her just a little bit harder that night).

Excellent, 150 people died, apparently it’s time to be a dick on the internet. Well done folks.

GrahamS – Member

Ok, they (all the news) reported what the prosecutor said …

Better. And what the prosecutor apparently said was:[/quote]

Don’t push iiiittttt!… 🙄

Like a bloody lawyer choosing words.

My turn … now let me choose those words as quoted by you.

“The most plausible interpretation is that the co-pilot through a voluntary act had refused to open the cabin door to let the captain in. He pushed the button to trigger the aircraft to lose altitude. He operated this button for a reason we don’t know yet, but it appears that the reason was to destroy this plane.”

They also said that there was “absolute silence in the cockpit”.

😯

GO AWAY.

I’m hoping a more direct message may get through.

Nick – in the spirit of ‘we don’t know what really happened’, it’s also possible that Chewkw is reflecting some anger from somewhere else. He may also have lost someone in similar circumstances, i.e. someone else’s suicide took someone else with them.

His anger and attachment to this line of debate would be understandable in those circumstances.

You need to start with imaginative minds first then put them to test. Then reduce the impossible and whatever remains should be the truth.

I did my best, Chewkw, and you haven’t even commented on my efforts. 🙁

Edukator – Troll

You need to start with imaginative minds first then put them to test. Then reduce the impossible and whatever remains should be the truth.

I did my best, Chewkw, and you haven’t even commented on my efforts. [/quote]

You have done your best and so do I 😀

… I better stop now otherwise I would upset others with my original assumptions. 😮

For some people it’s always time 🙄

Nick – in the spirit of ‘we don’t know what really happened’, it’s also possible that Chewkw is reflecting some anger from somewhere else. He may also have lost someone in similar circumstances, i.e. someone else’s suicide took someone else with them.

Doesn’t stop it being an utterly useless contribution, and rather irritating, taking the appropriateness out of the equation!

Yes he could have planned to take his own life, but you do not know anymore than I do, in fact neither does the Prosecutor. He may have decided that life was that bad that death was a better place to be, but because his head was in a bad place, the fact that crew and passengers would die too may not have entered in to it, and thats not murder. But as said we will never know he reasoning. So what has been said is actually damaging.

IMO he is being called a ‘murderer’ because the alternative is that we can all be flying around in aircraft controlled by people who might potentially cause us to die.

To label him a murderer makes us all feel a little more secure because we know that he was different and it wont happen again tomorrow. Plus it takes the pressure of the industry to support their staff and improve conditions, afterall the guy was “just a nutter”

He would be a murderer in the same way that Virginia tech type shooters are. Just because it didn’t involve a gun doesn’t mean to say that it’s not murder.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/disaster-psychiatry/mass-shootings-research-and-lessons/page/0/2

If true, he was a shitbag and not deserving of much empathy.

Doesn’t stop it being an utterly useless contribution, and rather irritating, taking the appropriateness out of the equation!

It is however entirely in keeping with his “Comedy Internet Persona” which is what’s important.

Have I stumbled onto the Daily Fail forum?

He would be a murderer in the same way that Virginia tech type shooters are

There’s absolutely zero evidence of premeditation. Not a shred.

Hence, “if true”.

Hence, “if true”.

Sneaky edit.