Pivot Shuttle SL: 60Nm, 430Wh, 16.5kg, £12.5k

I’ve had my “Sunday Best” road bike so long now the Tarmac crowd assume it’s a deliberate retro statement and show an interest again 🤣

I just don’t get the ‘I can’t stand STW because they dare acknowledge that there are expensive bikes and people do buy them’ mindset. I have no intention of buying one, but enjoy reading the reviews.

Yeah, fair enough, and it’s different strokes for different folks – personally I don’t read them, as I don’t really care what the bike’s like, as I’ll never buy it, but I get others are interested in what a top-end bike is like.

For me though it’s not necessarily ‘dream bike’ type stuff, it’s what seems to be the blind acceptance of the cost of ‘general riding’ stuff that winds me up more. I had a very mild spat with Mark a few months ago about a pair of Spesh shoes that were £180. Now, I think that’s mental for something that is reasonably equivalent in structure and materials to a £80 skate pump. Or, being generous, a pair of approach shoes, which come in at about £120, and they’ll have a waterproof membrane that the Spesh shoes didn’t. Mark however thought it was a perfectly reasonable price for a “technical riding shoe” (his words). That just says to me that they’ve drunk a bit too much of the marketing Kool-Aid, and lost some of the objectivity that they used to have.

But, saying all that, if the recent Decathlon jacket/cheap bike test stuff is a sign of things changing, then brill, more power to their elbow.

Shoes and helmet reviews are almost the most annoying things in any mag because unless it fits it doesn’t matter how much of a bargain it is at £180, it’s useless. You could ask is a £180 spesh shoe worth the extra over the £40/£80/£120 price point shoe from Spesh. But comparing a £180 Spesh shoe to a £180 Bont shoe is pointless.

Which is a roundabout way of justifying why I have a whole collection of cycling shoes that all individually cost more than my frame!

Shoes and helmet reviews are almost the most annoying things in any mag because unless it fits it doesn’t matter how much of a bargain it is at £180

Planet X do fantastic helmets for £15. I compared a leading brand that looked very similar to the Planet X one, and I found the Planet X one more comfortable and build quality just as good.

Yet another stupidly over priced bike.

I feel this.

I do wonder if the mag needs a bit of a reboot on its review sections (which I appreciate are less of the mag than they were, which is brilliant)…..or it could end up going a bit Top Gear – just sub in super bikes for super cars. Some reviews of bikes with interesting concepts or tech which might trickle down or are just class acts of workmanship worthy of a lear but pitch them as just that – objet d’art. Then some different paced and pitched reviews that are much more realistic as actual buying choices for the readership. Turn them into interesting articles about a trip or entering an event. Be a pioneer for less is more and ‘contained consumerism’ rather than driving the ever increasing false premise that this sport can only be enjoyed by those with significant desposible income. That’s where the market will be for the foreseeable as we all hand our wages directly over to the energy firms. An article about refreshing and upgrading rather than buying new for economic and sustainability reasons maybe, and is it both more sustainable and economic. Or go to the other arm of the TopGear formula – 3 bike journos given £1k each and let loose on eBay and Facebook marketplace to arm yourself for a weekend away – who’s purchase generates the most smiles.

I had a very mild spat with Mark a few months ago about a pair of Spesh shoes that were £180.

Pretty sure my shoes cost over £200! Shimano S-phyre things.

15 years ago I probably spent £80 on top end the Spesh body Geom shoes, but they’re over £200 now.

Thinking about it, my winter road boots were also over £200 IIRC.

Mark however thought it was a perfectly reasonable price for a “technical riding shoe” (his words).

Yep – that’s the going rate and they sell like hot cakes…..

and lost some of the objectivity that they used to have.

No, they’re spot on with where the industry is going – lots of very expensive bike parts / accessories coming to market and all selling very well.

Planet X do fantastic helmets for £15. I compared a leading brand that looked very similar to the Planet X one, and I found the Planet X one more comfortable and build quality just as good.

My current lid is a £30 Planet X thing – doesn’t quite fit my head though, so keep meaning to find something better..

No, they’re spot on with where the industry is going – lots of very expensive bike parts / accessories coming to market and all selling very well

Well, they will sell well if the ‘objective’ journos that people look to for advice tell those people that what they’re paying is a perfectly reasonable amount. If the journos said “hang on, isn’t that twice the price of a basically similar skate pump, or 50% more than a technically similar approach shoe, how do you justify that Mr Specialized?”, then people might think differently.

Yep – that’s the going rate and they sell like hot cakes…..

Sell like hot cakes, or just sell though?

I’d bet there’s a normal distribution of shoe prices Vs sales with a huge majority of people buying the £60-£80 mid range. I’m sure they sell the £200 ones (after all, I’ve got a pair of the older R171’s because they only made those or the very cheapest in a wide fit) but they won’t be the most popular (even if all your mates have them, that just says you hang around in a different circle).

then people might think differently.

Unlike spending £10k of a Rolex or £1000s on a set of top end Gold Clubs, or £200k for a mid range Ferrari, which people have been doing for years?

Cycling as become more popular, which is a good thing. As a result of a larger pool of clients you not only have more ‘low end’ customers, but you also have more ‘high end’ customers, who are happy / able to buy a £200 pair of shoes (I couldn’t even get the colour I wanted, they’d sold out completely).

Personally I think this is probably a good thing as you’ll get more high end things being developed for “deeper walleted” customers from which new technology will filter down to the mid range stuff.

With most industries eg cars / aviation, the high end products generate the most margin which end up subsidising the low end stuff, so you actually benefit from it even if you never purchase it.

I would love reviews that help you make an informed decision for examples lights.

A few years back STW tested lights

I think the range was something like £600 down to the budget ‘bargain’ £150.

I’ve never spent £600 on lights but I have bought Aldi lights and Amazon £40 things.

The Aldi was crap and lasted about a month, the Amazon is still going strong.

Its that kind of review I would love to see.

Sell like hot cakes, or just sell though?

Do you get equally bothered by how many Rolexes sell or how many Ferraris?

It’s just choice. Choose not to buy it is fine, but to get upset that other people can/do is slightly odd behaviour…..

Do you get equally bothered by how many Rolexes sell or how many Ferraris?

It’s just choice. Choose not to buy it is fine, but to get upset that other people can/do is slightly odd behaviour…..

You are missing the point. I don’t think the mood is anti well healed people buying expensive things. It’s a fixation of a magazine (or rather this magazine) spending too many words on these things. Mark and co clearly know their demagraphic better than I do….but is it the Rolex buyer who the mag is aimed at now? A sort of Tatler for bike riders.

I break things down to what we know they cost. Fork costs this much, shock that, wheels this etc etc.

It’s a bad deal, not worth its asking price, and it’s not going to be doing anything more special that any other eBike designed for offroad use.

With most industries eg cars / aviation, the high end products generate the most margin which end up subsidising the low end stuff, so you actually benefit from it even if you never purchase it.

You know that’s not how it works?

You spend all your money on some super project (Bugatti, Dura Ace), spend money marketing it, then sell R8’s (ultegra) off the back of those, A3’s off the back of those (105), Golf (Tiagra) and finally Octavia’s (Sora), which fund your next project. Same reason any company gets into motorsport, Yamaha aren’t funding their WSB/BSB/MotoGP efforts off the back of a few M1 sales, R1, or even MT09’s, it’ll be their scooters and 400cc bikes doing the heavy lifting on the balance sheet.

Yamaha aren’t funding their WSB/BSB/MotoGP efforts off the back of a few M1 sales, R1, or even MT09’s, it’ll be their scooters and 400cc bikes doing the heavy lifting on the balance sheet.

but to take this back to bikes, this would imply that practical hybrids, RS gold mtbs and sora road bikes will be funding our off road dirt queens and sunday best cafe runs.
And yet… the bikes come out similar price, whether its from a multidiscipline brand like spesh or giant, or a niche product only brand like Pivot or commencal.

Where’s Guy Kes to settle this debate once and for all.

🤡🤣

And now the new Evil Epocalypse. 1 model. £10.2k.

You know that’s not how it works?

Yep it’s exactly how it works – with BMW most of the margin is in the top end models, base models are not very profitable – which is why they de-prioritised them over the top end models during the chip shortage.

Premium models = higher profit margin: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bmw-cfo-luxury-idUSKBN1WP1MS

Prioritise premium models: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/10/bmw-says-2021-profit-surged-as-it-favored-higher-margin-vehicles-during-chip-shortage.html

Brand halo products, which is what you’re alluding to, is a separate issue – bling models add brand cachet, but they also have a higher % margin than base models.

The reality is in many cases none, or very few people, have actually even seen one let alone actually ridden one. These types of article as little ore than a copy paste from the press release email.

I also expect that in the overall scheme of things STW are not that high on the list of magazines globally to send the newest stuff to first. That’s not meant as a criticism just a fact of life. If you were a manufacturer with a finite number of bikes to lend to jurnos then your going to give them to the ones with the biggest audience and that ain’t STW

Yep it’s exactly how it works – with BMW most of the margin is in the top end models, base models are not very profitable – which is why they de-prioritised them over the top end models during the chip shortage.

Individually, but when they’re not limited in the number they can build by the shortage of one common part they’ll be making more money selling hundreds of thousands of 1-series compared to the comparative handful of 7-series they’ll make.

Surron do non pedally off road ebikes for £5k. Complete with fox 40 forks etc.