Pidcock/Ineos Rift – what’s up?

will continue to use a Pinarello mountain bike when he competes off-road

He’s going to struggle riding a MTB in cyclocross

So the official announcement has been made. Tom Pidcock to join Q36.5

Looks like he could still be on a Pinarello for the next three years as the team owner also owns Pinarello( I didn’t know that!)

Apparantly they paid Ineos 12 million euros to buy him out of his contract and Luigi Bergamo, Chairperson of Q36.5 Pro Cycling Team, said  “ I can’t wait to send him his first pair of Dottore bib shorts and hear what he thinks!”   That’s probably the most expensive review for a pair of shorts ever!!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s Monopoly money stuff. Must be maddening to the teams with small budgets.

Mental the amount of money being swapped around…how do people work out if it have value for money? What kind of stuff constitutes value for money?
Well done to the guy being able to command those kinds of figures, but that must surely just add more pressure (which may ensure even more drive for wins).
The industry is struggling in plenty areas, but there are a few pro teams who clearly aren’t…
He needs to work on his Instagram video though…2 matches don’t appear to cause much fire! 🙂

I’d never heard of q36.5. Having looked at their site, I guess they won’t need to sell many jerseys to pay his wages.

I don’t follow the teams but looking at the stats Q36.5 don’t seem to be very successful do they? Paying 12 million for a rider who may do okay in a few classics and minor stage races is not a good business investment is it?
Then I look up the owner of Q36.5, Luigi Bergamo, who is a billionaire former mining executive so I guess spaffing 12 million is pocket change.

Well done to the guy being able to command those kinds of figures, but that must surely just add more pressure (which may ensure even more drive for wins).

I’m not sure there are any genuine ‘business’ decisions being made here. Pidcock’s being paid millions basically to ride bikes very fast, which is objectively quite mad. Trying to somehow pretend that it makes commercial sense is missing the point somewhat. The whole thing is a rich man’s hobby circus, powered by fossil fuels in the case of both Ratcliffe and Glasenberg.

Also, have any of the journalists writing stuff about Q36.5 ‘building a team’ around Pidcock, stopped to consider that one of his fundamental traits appears to be that he appears to be very much not a team player?

Anyway, good luck to him, but pretending any of this is logical in commercial seems like a bit of dead end.

 Q36.5 don’t seem to be very successful do they?

and

I’d never heard of q36.5.

Is probably why they’ve just spent 12M euros on Tom Pidcock.

Then I look up the owner of Q36.5, Luigi Bergamo, who is a billionaire former mining executive so I guess spaffing 12 million is pocket change.

Aren’t you thinking of Ivan Glasenberg rather than Bergamo, who is actually ex-Assos and founded Q36.5, I think. Glasenberg’s the guy with the fossil fuel money who owns a chunk of Pinarello and Q36.5. He’s kind of a South African version of Jim Ratcliffe.

Not thinking of anything, just googled it and Bergamo is majority stakeholder in 36.5. Not really sure who it is matters as no doubt some billionaire or other so 12 million still seen as pocket change.

Also not sure how Pidcock is going to make the team successful unless they are planning to buy a lot more riders (which they well may be doing I guess). Pidcocks success is not when in a team.

Also, have any of the journalists writing stuff about Q36.5 ‘building a team’ around Pidcock, stopped to consider that one of his fundamental traits appears to be that he appears to be very much not a team player?

Surely building a team around him would be ideal for Pidcock then?

I get the impression he’s got no problem with others riding for him, it’s returning the favour that’s the problem.

Whatever, it’s going to be interesting to see how this will pan out. I’m finding it hard to see how moving to a team like this will further his ambitions on the road. I hope it works for him though as it would be exciting to see him winning some classics.

Not thinking of anything, just googled it and Bergamo is majority stakeholder in 36.5. Not really sure who it is matters as no doubt some billionaire or other so 12 million still seen as pocket change.

Yeah, I get that Pidcock won’t care where his money comes from, but it’s Glasenberg who is the former mining executive, rather than Bergamo, who was apparently at Assos for 20 years before starting A36.5. Glasenberg owns a chunk of Q36.5, 30% according to google, and, apparently, 80% of Pinarello. Sorry, I know that’s a bit pedantic.

Mental the amount of money being swapped around…how do people work out if it have value for money? What kind of stuff constitutes value for money?

It is mad and in this case it might be money that’s just a vanity project or rich mans hobby

However there are proper bean counters at this level. They’ll look at tv and press coverage that mentions the sponsoring brands. Including where it is in the paper and the papers readership, viewing figures for tv etc. That’s all added up and converted into equivalant advertising costs

Obviously there is lots of guess work here. But i seem to remember that in the F1 Mercedes glory days they were confident they getting more back in coverage than the 100s of millions a year they were spending on the Team

Yeah, I get that Pidcock won’t care where his money comes from, but it’s Glasenberg who is the former mining executive, rather than Bergamo, who was apparently at Assos for 20 years before starting A36.5. Glasenberg owns a chunk of Q36.5, 30% according to google, and, apparently, 80% of Pinarello. Sorry, I know that’s a bit pedantic.

Fair enough, looks like google AI overview returned some duff info.

TP is focused, a proven winner and confident in his own ability.

In the cynical UK, that makes you an arrogant, difficult little sh1t with people desperate to have a pop and take you down.

Unfortunately due to Ineos’ inability to organise a p1sh up in a brewery, things haven’t worked out for him there.

SC seems to have been a scapegoat in all this to Alulas benefit. Ineos have lost a top quality DS in another act of self destruction.

TP is focused, a proven winner

Not really on the road though. He’s got some big name wins but I think he’s in 5 wins on the road since he joined Ineos. I’m assuming Q36.5 are banking in him wiping the floor at the lower levels they will get invited to and use TP to try and get wildcard entries to the bigger events.

I don’t get the move. According to the Laterne Rouge podcast (very good) the Q36.5 team will not get a place in the grand tours. This leaves Pidcock only the classics for which the Q36.5 don’t really have any heavy hitting support riders.   Perhaps he’s realised he can’t beat Tadej or Jonas, he looked shocked at the top of Puy de dome, at their Watts/Speed. and will concentrate on cross and mtb and one day races which Sponsors may not get a return..make it make sense…

He can go and do one day and one week races. Probably works nicely for him in terms of his strengths (and that the better riders will be else where). But as a big fish in a small pond I suspect the new team are expecting to see some proper results from him and pretty quickly.

Amstel, Strada Bianche, Tour stage up the Alp….  that’s better than most not to mention that time he outs sprinted Wout but the finish line camera was in the wrong place! Not sure he needs a team back up too much in the Classics. I think he has looked at MdVP being in a small team compared to Wout in a big team and thought he doesn’t need all the INEOS grad tour shite

He does need a team to actually get invited to the classics though…..they did 2/5 this year didn’t they?

I genuinely don’t see what he thinks he can achieve on the road at this team? Will they get invites to all classics now that he’s there?

Amstel, Strada Bianche, Tour stage up the Alp

But there are only 2 others in total, he’s won big shiny races but not volume, and to get Q36.5 to where they want to be that’s what they need. They’re a level below Alpecin Deceunick with MvDP and Phillipsen.

Marc Hirschi has gone to Tudor as another bigger name (but not huge) move. This year alone he has 9 wins, 5 seconds and 3 thirds. Steve Williams has 6 firsts, 2 seconds and 2 thirds this year including Tour Down Under and Tour of Britain GC.

Neither of them are on TPs salary level or probably (being critical) skill level. But they are going a lot more with it, and Hirschi in particular also does a job as domestique in GTs for his team mates too.

It’s not like Ineos supported Pidcock well at the classics either, and he’s had some pretty miserable grand tours with them. Pidcock has shown bags of promise in one day racing and grand tour stage win racing. He was probably always a poor fit for Sky/Ineos with their GC over everything focus, but I expect the commercial side were happy to throw money at hiring the biggest rising British star even if the sports side of the organisation didn’t know what to do with him if he couldn’t ride for GC. I think he had hoped to be able to compete with Pogacar, Roglic, Vingegaard, etc. as a GC rider but discovered he either couldn’t or wouldn’t turn his physiology to it. There’s not much of a future at Ineos if you’re not a rider who can either win at GC or be an effective domestique for their GC riders.

It’s not Pidcocks career I’d,worry about but Ineos.  Season ambition a considtent 12th place or wharever at big tours isn’t very attractive

worse returns, from @looflol on X

Marc Hirschi has gone to Tudor as another bigger name (but not huge) move. This year alone he has 9 wins, 5 seconds and 3 thirds. Steve Williams has 6 firsts, 2 seconds and 2 thirds this year including Tour Down Under and Tour of Britain GC.

Neither of them are on TPs salary level or probably (being critical) skill level. But they are going a lot more with it

I’d rather win Amstel Gold than all the races those two won this season.

I mean Williams won Fleche Wallone which seems fairly equivalent to Amstel Gold no?

Fleche is more of a midweek race between Amstel and LBL isn’t it…

Although I accept your point it is quite big. Hershi just won a load of small races when Pogi wasn’t it to play

When Ineos signed him, they knew he was a multi discipline rider – and thought he was worth a large salary. He’s delivered, despite what the roadie focused naysayers may say – take no notice of their ignorance, they’re clueless:

2 x Olympic MTB champion, XCO World champion, Cyclocross World champion, multiple World Cups in XCO, XCC & Cyclocross, and World Tour road wins……including iconic victories on Alpe D’Huez and Strade Bianche………

I’d say that’s a pretty good haul across 3 disciplines…….

Good luck to him on Q36.5, and lets see what he can do. Missing out on any GTs won’t be a problem, it’s not where he needs to focus. Spring classics, one day races and some MTB World Cups……

Hirschi has 2 1.uwt victories this year which (as a points for the team) score the same as Amstel, LBL, Fleche Wallone and was 2nd to TP in Amstel. He’s won a stage of the Tour and Fleche Wallone previously as well.

He’s the same type of one day/week rider who can/should be supporting a stronger GC rider on GT/ higher profile one week races, he’s also moved from a big world tour team to a team a step below to be one of the lead riders so it makes for an interesting comparison. He’s just a lot better at earning the points that the teams need to get into contention to get promoted into WT level (double the amount this year) and he seems much happier to work as a domestique.

But this was the statement that TP is a proven winner and, unless you’re just being really pedantic on the definition, he’s not. He averages just over one win a season on the road. Buying him out of a contract for £12M (just shy of £2.5M per pro road win) is mental. He’s better on the CX circuit and excellent on a MTB but basing it on those it seems like even worse value.

If he can motivate himself to go out and properly race the diddly little events that Q36.5 will get invites to then you’d hope he starts sweeping all before him but I’m not sure it’s a given by any means.

But this was the statement that TP is a proven winner and, unless you’re just being really pedantic on the definition, he’s not. He averages just over one win a season on the road. Buying him out of a contract for £12M (just shy of £2.5M per pro road win) is mental.

I always find these conversations interesting where a rider’s value is quantified by their wins. The main focus for sponsors is advertising through exposure and Pidcock gets plenty of that whether he’s winning or not. Some people just draw attention and he’s one of them. It’s like Cav, you can stick him in the Tdf, and even if he wins nothing you can guarantee he’ll be headline news every sprint stage.

Whichever way you put it, Pidcock has proven himself to be one of the most talented multi-discipline riders in the peloton, and very capable of winning big on the road. How many people can claim his achievements in MTB and CX and then go win on a stage like Alpe d’huez? The only one I can think comes close is Van Aert and he’s missing the entire MTB bit.

He’s just a lot better at earning the points that the teams need to get into contention to get promoted into WT level (

Maybe, maybe not. We won’t really know until the end of this season as TP has been at INEOS who wanted him to be a Grand Tour GC rider which he clearly either didn’t want to get or wasn’t able to be. Maybe he can hoover up 2.1 level races next season although I’d rather a Strade Bianche or Tour stage up the Alp than any of the races Hershi won last season, adding in CX world champ and two MTB golds at the Olympics and most would retire happy.

The only one I can think comes close is Van Aert and he’s missing the entire MTB bit.

No I can’t think of anyone ?…wait, what

Cyclo-cross

World Championships (2015, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2023, 2024)

38 individual wins (2014–15—2020–21, 2022–23, 2023–24)

Gravel

World Championships (2024)

Mountain bike

European XC Championships (2019)

National XC Championships (2018)

XC World Cup

3 individual wins (2019)

Road

Grand Tours

Tour de France

1 individual stage (2021)

Giro d’Italia

1 individual stage (2022)

Combativity award (2022)

Stage races

BinckBank Tour (2020)

Tour of Belgium (2023)

Tour of Britain (2019)

One-day races and Classics

World Road Race Championships (2023)

National Road Race Championships (2018, 2020)

Milan–San Remo (2023)

Tour of Flanders (2020, 2022, 2024)

Paris–Roubaix (2023, 2024)

Amstel Gold Race (2019)

Strade Bianche (2021)

E3 Saxo Classic (2024)

Dwars door Vlaanderen (2019, 2022)

Brabantse Pijl (2019)

GP de Denain (2019)

GP de Wallonie (2022)

Super 8 Classic (2023)

No I can’t think of anyone ?…wait, what

…

Happy to be proven wrong but I don’t see any scenario where MVdP wins on Alpe d’huez.

I mean MvDP wore the yellow jersey at the TdF….I’d argue that that is at least as good as the Pidcock A2H win….and waaay more valuable to a team. But yes if the criteria is a cyclist who has won in MTB, cx and on A2H then Pidcock is in a class of 1.

Happy to be proven wrong but I don’t see any scenario where MVdP wins on Alpe d’huez.

True but you know Flanders, Roubaix, San Remo….not too shabby

In the real world of sponsors etc – which IG/YT clips are getting watched – I bet that TP’s descent of the Galibier before AdH, and that Strade Bianchi motorbike overtake are up there.

Ineos never seemed to devote their attention to TP. It was always someone else they were targeting for GC – and TP was a bit of an after thought – a bit like Cav back in 2012 when they took him onboard but didn’t know what to do with a sprinter in a GC team.

I hope that he is the focus for Q3.65 (I’d defo buy their kit, but it’s a bit rich for me) and that they get to progress together

It doesn’t matter how good Pidcock is, he comes across as thinking he should be treated better.

At Q3.65 he’ll get the big fish treatment, it just depends on accepting it’s in a small pond.

If he didn’t have the ego then I think he’d have fit in at EF with their pro race and random do whatever you like mixed team.

except they couldn’t afford his wages…

I’m of the opinion, that despite what we all think, TP probably knows better than us what’s best for his situation, career and bank balance.

Well yes there is the finance issue but that’s a whole different kettle of fish when the only people that can fund sports teams are those with questionable links to human rights and the planets destruction and not a group focused on educating those in need.