Home Forums Chat Forum Petrol or diesel?

Viewing 40 posts - 81 through 120 (of 163 total)
  • Petrol or diesel?
  • squirrelking
    Free Member

    Sbob, you’re taking the whole STW-dick thing to new levels.

    If you want peak power delivery in a very tight rev range then go ahead, I prefer mine over a wider spread (power being the product of torque and rpm – work it out) for reasons I’ve already identified.

    As for the Grandad statement I wasn’t slating Hondas, I was merely using them as a very good example of engines that require a lot of work to keep them at their peak power. If you actually knew what you were talking about you would realise this (hence why a stock Type-R has less torque than my ancient diesel but far more power; again, torque x rpm).

    mindmap3
    Free Member

    I find it amazing that people moan about the power bands and noise. FFS talk about picky.

    Why? I like the noise that multi cylinder petrol engines make. The 330 sounds lovely on start up and at the red line. My diesel sounds, er awful. Even the big BMW six derves don’t sound particularly pleasant to me.

    My diesel dumps all of its power in a narrow band of revs and then just gets louder. At least petrols give you a bit of an option.

    ericemel
    Free Member

    Both have benefits. Personally I love the torque of a diesel combined with mpg.

    I am running a diesel, 0-60 in 5.4 sec and 45mpg – cannot grumble!

    yourguitarhero
    Free Member

    My MX5 doesn’t have much power. 143hp, 126 lb/ft of torque from a 1.8 NA petrol. 32 mpg-ish

    Wouldn’t want a diesel in it though, ugh.

    Diesels are for people dead on the inside.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Why? It’s a car not a lover. Honestly, it’s not that big of a deal.

    My diesel doesn’t have a narrow power band. And the next person who posts up dyno graphs of engine speed vs power or torque gets a dirty look.

    mindmap3
    Free Member

    Why? It’s a car not a lover. Honestly, it’s not that big of a deal

    But some people actually like cars and things like the noise they make….if I’m paying money for a car, I’d much rather do so for something that I like and can get a little bit interested in. You can’t drive quickly etc these days, so whats wrong with having something that sounds a bit cheeky (or very cheeky in the case of a C63)? I’d rather that than listen to a broken Massey Ferguson.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “Diesels are for people dead on the inside.”

    diesel or petrol – if they are inside me in any great quantity im dead as a can of spam that much is a given.

    seriously its a conveyance of people and shit from A to B on public roads.i really dont care how much the road is brought to life by coming on cam or hitting turbo….. 8v non turbo diesel FTW.

    stick yer C63 anyway – industrial injection cummings 6BT would be cheeky enough for me – propper throaty sound none of this bzzzzzzzz that the c63 makes – although ill admit , pops and bangs the c63 gives on overrun are amaizing – 13mpg average isnt – nor is 1800 quid composite(steel alu) front disks.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    so whats wrong with having something that sounds a bit cheeky

    Fuel consumption? It don’t grow on trees, there’s only so much of it left.

    Maybe if you miss the noise you could just make ‘vroom vroom’ noises yourself whilst driving? Or perhaps record some kind of soundtrack at a vintage car rally?

    mindmap3
    Free Member

    Fuel consumption? It don’t grow on trees, there’s only so much of it left.

    Enjoy it while it lasts then*…..

    *To purely wind up the eco-conscious.

    I’m out now, time to go back to work.

    jamesfts
    Free Member

    The petrol and diesel are unlikely to have the same gearbox….gear ratios suited to diesel would be rubbish in a petrol & vice versa….

    You’re probably right, though still felt like you were having to short shift and change gear every 2 seconds to keep the diesel up to speed.

    It don’t grow on trees…

    All the more reason… sod it – beaten to it.

    sbob
    Free Member

    squirrelking – Member

    Sbob, you’re taking the whole STW-dick thing to new levels.

    No, telling me what I want and being wrong about it is being a dick.

    If you want peak power delivery in a very tight rev range then go ahead

    Plenty of power between 4,500 and 9,000rpm in my old Honda, does that sound tight to you?

    As for the Grandad statement I wasn’t slating Hondas, I was merely using them as a very good example of engines that require a lot of work to keep them at their peak power

    Rubbish, you used the term “over use” and preceded the name Honda with “just”. Not that it bothers me that you were “slating” Honda, merely that you then lie about it.

    If you like low down torque and avoiding changing gear then good for you, I’m happy for you.
    Don’t tell me what I like however, because it is clear you are talking out of your bottom, and it hits a nerve.

    Much like my joking pensioner comments, eh pops?
    Am I right? 😉

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Diesel’s don’t have the same gear ratios. In my car, at 70mph it does about 2krpm, my dad’s petrol is about 2.8krpm. In both cases roughly half way through the rev range.

    However my diesel comes on really stronly at about 1.2krpm, and in his case it does basically nothing until.. well.. 4k or so! His is a 1.6 Focus – it’s smaller, slower and less economical.

    Still struggling to see how his petrol is better to drive.

    Of course, a big V8 petrol would be much better, but that’s a premium engine and has costs to match – not a fair comparison with a 2.0 TDI.

    plyphon
    Free Member

    So, right

    If you were looking to buy a mid-ranged car for around £10k, around 5 years old 2010 – 2011, and reckon you’ll keep the car for 5 years ish.

    Is it wise to look for petrols, or is diesel still okay?

    FWIW, I was looking at a 2.0 VW Scriocco GT. Diesel.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    If you are buying used, you can choose your fuel and then adjust the age or mileage to suit your budget. So it depends on

    a) preference
    b) mileage vs fuel budget/desire to rape the planet
    c) short/long trip ratio.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    “You’re probably right, though still felt like you were having to short shift and change gear every 2 seconds to keep the diesel up to speed.”

    what diesel was that ? sounds broken.

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    Sbob, if you don’t understand the nuances of the English language I don’t think you should be wading into a technical discussion. When I said “you want” I didn’t literally mean YOU nor was I dictating a preference.

    Not sure what I’m lying about either, I explained my reasoning for picking Honda (very familiar and involved with other owners), I may well have chosen something else but can’t think of something that would have illustrated my point in the same way. Again, if you have difficulty grasping the English language I would get some remedial lessons before making a cock of yourself again.

    Whatever your actual point was there were plenty of ways you could have said it civilly. That you chose to be a dick about it instead of being reasonable speaks volumes about you as a person. If you have nothing useful to add then please do yourself a favour and don’t waste your time replying.

    jamesfts
    Free Member

    what diesel was that ? sounds broken.

    Octavia VRS, both mapped and standard. In fact the mapped cars managed to feel worse as they got through what few revs they had even quicker. Pretty sure they weren’t all broken but felt that way in direct comparison to the petrol equivalent.

    I do think diesels have their place and can be great cars, just not in that car. 330d/335d for example felt a far better all round package.*

    *added as I’m not anti diesel cars in general

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Octavia VRS, both mapped and standard.

    What year? Older PD engines before.. er.. 2004-5 ish had mechanical PD injectors and they were definitely narrow power banded.

    However they were still fast enough, if you knew how to drive them. And the huge torque in that narrow band was actually brilliant for driving on windy roads. My Ibiza felt far far quicker than my dad’s Fiesta (and was far more fun to drive) despite the same bhp.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    oh i agree – why would you want a diesel performance car.

    recipe is something like take 1 x 2 litre engine bolt on big turbo.

    result is not very nice to drive.

    richmtb
    Full Member

    And the next person who posts up dyno graphs of engine speed vs power or torque gets a dirty look.

    Dammit!

    Of course, a big V8 petrol would be much better, but that’s a premium engine and has costs to match – not a fair comparison with a 2.0 TDI.

    How about a 2.0TDI and a 2.0T petrol?

    Compare a Golf GTD to a Golf GTI
    The diesel has more torque than the petrol but never gets near it in terms of performance

    2 reasons:
    Firstly torque is meaningless without considering gear ratios the petrol driver is effectively 1-2 gears lower than the diesel driver.

    Secondly power is everything!

    molgrips
    Free Member

    oh i agree – why would you want a diesel performance car.

    Depends on the car. Lotus Elise – no. Audi A5 3.0 V6 TDI yes. BMW 535d – yes.

    More than one way to enjoy driving.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    How about a 2.0TDI and a 2.0T petrol?

    Compare a Golf GTD to a Golf GTI

    Well getting like for like depends on what you compare. Comparing similar displacement doesn’t make as much sense as you’d think, because the engines work differently.

    Comparing the GTI and GTD makes more sense though overall. Both essentialy the same type of car, and they have different pros and cons. GTI is for those who want the most speed, GTD for those who want plenty of speed but still economy.

    A good comparison I’d say is bhp. I’ve compared a 105bhp diesel with a 105bhp NA petrol and there is absolutely no way in which such a small petrol is better.

    With say a 150bhp turbo diesel and turbo petrol it’s closer – but the diesel gets far better economy.

    And comparing like for like on economy – a diesel will be vastly better.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    molgrips

    A good comparison I’d say is bhp. I’ve compared a 105bhp diesel with a 105bhp NA petrol and there is absolutely no way in which such a small petrol is better.

    Is that a 105bhp tdi vs a 105na petrol? How did the torque figures compare?

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    Audi A5 3.0 V6 TDI yes. BMW 535d

    Cruisers.

    like comparing a harley to a gsxr imo.

    Gimmie the audi or the beemer any day for a day to day car – but id rather the 2.0d in either ill be honest.

    peterfile
    Free Member

    Depends on the car. Lotus Elise – no. Audi A5 3.0 V6 TDI yes. BMW 535d – yes.

    There’s a guy who lives near me with a brand new Audi TT…in diesel flavour…for the weekend. He drives a petrol golf to work!

    I can’t get my head round spending £30k+ on a sporty(ish) car like the TT and then try to save a few quid on fuel? Maybe he just really likes how the torque makes the road come alive?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I can’t get my head round spending £30k+ on a sporty(ish) car like the TT and then try to save a few quid on fuel?

    Environmental conscience?

    Anyway it’s not just a few quid, is it? It could be a couple of thousand quid over say 200k miles ( not done sums) and that pays for the stero upgrade, a DSG, the built in satnav or some other expensive options.

    sbob
    Free Member

    Woah there SK!
    Maybe the light-heartedness of my initial reply was too subtle for you to understand, hence why you waded in with the insults. 💡

    Maybe you should take my car for a spin; it always brings a smile with its cheeky looks and flower graphics. 8)

    peterfile
    Free Member

    Environmental conscience?

    Anyway it’s not just a few quid, is it? It could be a couple of thousand quid over say 200k miles ( not done sums) and that pays for the stero upgrade, a DSG, the built in satnav or some other expensive options.

    Since when was having a second, sports car with a diesel engine, environmentally friendly? 🙂

    Also, what are the chances that he’ll be sticking 200k miles (ie almost the distance to the moon) on a weekend car?

    (it would take him 20 years of sticking 200 miles on it every weekend to hit that figure!)

    molgrips
    Free Member

    My car always gives me a smile when I return to it in failing light after a long cold wet ride in the mountains… 🙂

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Ah I didn’t see the ‘weekend’ part.

    Still – why not ask him? Perhaps he preferred the drive? Perhaps his weekends involve driving to Edinburgh or something?

    richmtb
    Full Member

    A good comparison I’d say is bhp. I’ve compared a 105bhp diesel with a 105bhp NA petrol and there is absolutely no way in which such a small petrol is better.

    I agree, but that’s also argument of forced induction versus NA.

    How about the 1.8TSI in the new Leon FR (180bhp) versus the Golf GTD (184bhp)

    The Leon is giving away a huge amount of torque (250Nm versus 380nm) and yet the acceleration of the two cars is very similar (shorter gears and a bigger rev range make up for the comparitive lack of torque)

    Now try finding a small diesel that compares well to the 1.0L Ford Ecoboost

    molgrips
    Free Member

    How about the 1.8TSI in the new Leon FR (180bhp) versus the Golf GTD (184bhp)

    It’d be an interesting comparison. Probably come down to preference and what you want out of it.

    Now try finding a small diesel that compares well to the 1.0L Ford Ecoboost

    It’d be a 1.6 bluemotion type thing. They are quite driveable by all accounts.

    mindmap3
    Free Member

    Ah, sod it. I’m back in (bored at work)

    Depends on the car. Lotus Elise – no. Audi A5 3.0 V6 TDI yes. BMW 535d – yes.

    But a petrol version is even better – the 535 is at least accompanied by a sonorous soundtrack. The BMW X35’s a very fast and very competent, but to me offer very little else.

    Now, going off topic a bit…

    With regards to cars doing 200k, I can’t see many modern cars getting that far without serious money thrown at them at some point – BMW’s seem faiurly prone to eating turbos plus HPF issues that are pricey. There are a fair few guys at work who have had Passat’s etc needing turbo replacements by 70k. The 7 speed DSG box isn’t known to be the most reliable thing.

    The drive for ever greater ecomony and lower emissions does seem to be leaving us with cars that will throw up some big bills early on. I have a friend who had a 540 that went on to 275k befoure rust killed it with very little money having to be spent on it, but that was a massively understressed, lazt engine.

    Ben_H
    Full Member

    I’ve had all sorts of petrol and diesel cars. I have a dinosaur of a 3.2 V6 in my Golf at the moment, which does 25mpg overall and cracks 35 if I drive like Miss Daisy.

    That’s almost the same on fuel as the supposedly more fuel efficient 2.0T lump I had in my old S3. Big NA is also the most smooth and luxuriant driving experience I’ve come across. The R32 will even accelerate reasonably at just idle speeds (i.e. not using throttle), which is something I’ve previously only been able to do with diesels.

    But the main thing I want to add to this is…

    Depreciation!

    I only do around 8-9k miles per year; and only 5k of those are not on business. Fuel and VED costs do need to be considered, but – depending on what your budget is and what you buy – depreciation is a much larger cost in my experience.

    P-Jay
    Free Member

    My 2p:

    Firstly I like the way diesels drive, some of my mates won’t touch the dark stuff – “it’s horrible to drive” and sure enough they drive them like a petrol – they floor it straight through the power band, onto the redline next gear barely sees the powerband at all – lots of noise, revs, soot, very little forward motion and 20mpg. Drive like a diesel though and they do that whole ‘inoffensive pace’ thing really well – they’re also not slow – real world stuff like 30-60 joining a motorway they’re faster than the equivalent petrol and more relaxing to drive unless you’re city driving IMO.

    After 10 years of diesels I find most petrol cars harsh and gutless.

    In regards to costs – there is some formula that was dreamt up by some petrol head (on Pistonheads I think) who said that you need to do 25-30k miles a year to make it work – I don’t see how Diesel is 6% more expensive than Petrol – even the latest tiny turbo petrol engines aren’t anywhere near that close to diesel – certainly not ‘in the real world’ truth is, even the famous 3 pot Ecoboost isn’t great on fuel unless you nurse it everywhere – and sorry, the diesel denyers can point to supposed reliability issues with diesels – but the technology they use the make them more flexible which supposedly fails expensively all the time is the very same technology they’re using to make a tiny petrol efficient.

    No to me it’s the same formula as it’s always been short trips or lots of stop-start driving – petrol, longer trips diesel.

    mindmap3
    Free Member

    I only do around 8-9k miles per year; and only 5k of those are not on business. Fuel and VED costs do need to be considered, but – depending on what your budget is and what you buy – depreciation is a much larger cost in my experience.

    And works in your favour when buying a car second hand, especially in this country where people are obsessed with fuel ecomony and Co2.

    In regards to costs – there is some formula that was dreamt up by some petrol head (on Pistonheads I think) who said that you need to do 25-30k miles a year to make it work – I don’t see how Diesel is 6% more expensive than Petrol

    I think that forumla is taking into account the likes of purchase price plus servicing. In some cases the latter is more expensive on dervs than petrols – local BM indy charges more to service a 330d than a 330 petrol.

    even the famous 3 pot Ecoboost isn’t great on fuel unless you nurse it everywhere

    In my experience, Ford’s economy claims are even greater works of fiction than those of other manufacturers. Even driving like miss daisy on lots of long motorway trips (suited to diesels) mine is way off the claimed.

    If I apply the same reduction on ecomomy to the petrols that I am looking at, then it won’t cost me any more to fuel and the BIK is lower and a lower list price. Stacks up for me.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    if I drive like Miss Daisy.

    Miss Daisy does not drive, she has a chauffeur.

    I think that forumla is taking into account the likes of purchase price plus servicing.

    Yes, it assumes buying from new where you pay more. Second hand you (can) pick the price point and choose the age, so diesel need not cost more to buy.

    local BM indy charges more to service a 330d than a 330 petrol.

    I wonder why? The expensive items in a diesel aren’t service items.

    trail_rat
    Free Member

    oil and oil filter/fuel filter are more expensive on most turbo diesels.

    but not a huge amount.

    the void between the cost of a used petrol vs used diesel is what makes the biggest difference for me and could drive me back into a petrol.

    i honestly dont know what ill buy once my 1.9 8v diesels bite the dust – get taxed off the planet.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    i honestly dont know what ill buy once my 1.9 8v diesels bite the dust

    Another diesel? Modern ones aren’t the disasters you appear to think.

    PimpmasterJazz
    Free Member

    About 10 years ago I bought a Ford Focus. I sat down and worked out, doing an average of 12k a year mainly on motorways and A roads, how much a petrol and a diesel would cost to run.

    Factoring in tax, fuel cost difference, service intervals (which to be fair is now not so important as more modern diesels are looking at 10k gaps) and every other expense I could think of, I did my sums.

    Over a year the difference was something daft like £10.

    I went for the petrol because it was more fun to drive.

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