Petrol or diesel?

Everyone has jumped onto the diesel bandwagon over the last few years but it seems petrol is always going to be cheaper and petrol cars are getting cleaner and almost as economical.
I drive 30 – 35k miles per year for work mostly – is it still more cost effective to run a diesel?

put simply …. yes

I get 58MPG with my Diesel on most runs, I can easily get more, when I use the MIL’s petrol I get 38 at best.

Says it all to me.

For that milage diesel still…..service intervals are less and more mpg but I suppose if it’s a company car you may need to work out any tax differences etc.

Small 3 cylinder turbo petrol is getting very close to diesel Economy and near in power @ 120/150 bhp but no where near as nice to drive in the real world… For that kind of mileage diesel is still much nicer drive!!! Sadly diesel is dieing…

I remember a guy at an old work did some serious research into this and the result was that above either 20 or 25k (I forget which) diesel was more cost effective. 30-35k is clear diesel territory I’d say.

petrol workhorse here, would get nearly – but not quite – 50mpg .. (over 40 usually on decent run, highs 40s if drive ‘well’ – or carefully).

Mileage is around 4/5/6 k / year though, at your mileage do the sums and I’m sure diesel would be the answer.

Small 3 cylinder turbo petrol is getting very close to diesel Economy

Ooo, would hate to drive 30+k/annum in one of those though!

And in reality the drivers of the ford 3cylinder turbo at our place an only make them work if asking fuel bik. Suggesting the real world mpg is utter rubbish, regardless of co2 and mpg claims

Nicksr interesting. I know two people who have these as private cars (fiesta) and are reporting great mpg and ample go from them. Probably a driving style/ type of use thing or maybe your colleagues are driving the larger models.

At the op’s mileage almost certainly diesel for the win though

What are you lot on about? I had a Focus 3 cylinder and it was far more refined then the equivalent diesel. Much less lag as well. Everyone who traveled in it commented on how quite it was.

It will depend what sort of driving you do in my opinion. On reasonably flat drives at non motorway speeds the Focus got around 50mpg. On hilly drives, at 70mph+ or if you kicked it’s arse the mpg suffered badly though.

Depends, tbh. The clinching factor for me is that I just like how fat diesels drive- you need a pretty potent petrol engine to get the same effect and they come with much bigger tax and economy impacts. And often insurance too. Like, I have a scabby 2.2 mondeo with a dab of tuning, instead of the petrol V6 which would have cost me something like £3000 more a year to run- it gives away about 30bhp and it has some extra reliability concerns but that’s more than the car cost, every year.

But that’s because I wanted a big car with a reasonable amount of poke, in other sectors it’s not like this at all. And I reckon the newer you get, the better the petrol options get.

I do slightly more miles than the OP using a company car, and I really wouldn’t want to be using a petrol. I’ve used a few of the VW ‘small petrol tfsi engine / Big engine feel’ golfs etc as courtesy cars, and they’d be fine around town but at motorway speed it was running at about 4500 revs and getting nowhere near the claimed mpg. It also sounded like it was being thrashed (when it wasn’t) too. Much as I despise weasly diesels, for me it’s a no brainier.

Last time I flung figures in, on economy alone diesel broke even at around the 12k mark.

What are you lot on about?

Well this.

On hilly drives, at 70mph+ or if you kicked it’s arse the mpg suffered badly though.

last three cars have been diesels all doing 15-20k a year. Honda 2.2 dCTI engine was a lovely engine (First one they did I think) and did great service for another forum member on here after I’d had it. X-Trail one ate it’s intercooler and was a bit agricultural but did the job, Yeti (110PS one) I think is the nicest (if the least powerful of the three).

But just swapped back to Petrol for the next car. Doing a few less miles nowadays and I was staggered how good even the smaller petrol engines are. Especially with a DSG box. I drove it back to back wit the more powerful diesel and much preferred it.

The turbo petrols don’t seem to get as close to their published figures as diesels though. Seem to be more sensitive to driving style.

Consider petrol hybrid though too.

FWIW I will be test driving a turbo petrol engine when I come to change.

For me the issue is . Torque.

I have 68bhp n/a diesel in my van . It does 80flat to the floor , its slow . But i can live with tht

Because t does 80 flat to the floor uphill or with an engine and gear box in the back , or with a stove and 18 boxes of solid oak flooring or 35 boxes of laminate floors (both of which put it on the bump stops so pretty heavy)

Every petrol car ive had would have been in 3rd gear at the first sign of a hill with half that load in.

When these little wasp in a can turbo petrols can do that ill consider it.

I use my car as a load lugger , the journey can often be made many other ways if i dotn need to carry heavy shit.

When these little wasp in a can turbo petrols can do that ill consider it.

Ever driven one?

Ever driven one?

Yup at work. Around town it gave the impression it was going to be quite something, on the open roads it was numb.

Try LPG even cheaper but say good bye to your boot !

Oh wait, I was talking about the 3 cylinder things not the turbo petrols. 😳

Yep 1.2 tce

Nippy enough round town which i agree they are fine for , took it out on the dualer , my god it was crap. Slight hill speed dropped off and 4th gear to maintain 70- that was with 3 adults in. Wouldnt fancy it with half the stuff i move around in my car.

I’ve been in a bigger turbo petrol and it was as torquey as a diesel easily. Not driven a smaller one tho.

So have i…..turbo petrols on the whole, great fun…..2.5 t forester the 2.0turbo octy vrs – great yolks.

1.2 tce renault that the dealers are pushign hard at the moment with ” its just like a bigger engine” .. No thank you. Give me the 1.5 dci any day of the week. Your 1.2tce is nothing like a bigger engine , its like a small displacement engine with a turbo on it.

I love diesels and the torque they deliver.

I’d only have a petrol if it was a 2l turbo 250bhp+ or 3l+ V6/8/10/12.

My pick-up ain’t quick, but the 3l V6 TD pulls like a train and makes a nice noise too. You’d need a monster of a petrol engine to deliver the 500nm of torque that it kicks out

Depends what you’re happy to drive, if you’re happy in a small Ford pootling round town then petrol is the sensible choice. But if you want something more refined then you’ll fine a 3 cylinder petrol turbo ain’t available, nor really sensible at the price.

Take the new Audi TT (random choice, don’t own it) bottom of the range engine is:

Diesel – 180bhp, 57mpg (urban), 76mpg (extra urban), 67mpg (combined)
Petrol – 220bhp, 38mpg (urban), 56mpg (extra urban), 47mpg (combined)

so when people say that petrol is nearly as efficient as diesel – really it isn’t is it, 20mpg difference above. I’d be picking diesel. If diesel is dying out then crack on, it’ll only make it cheaper at the pump (they’re not going to run trucks on petrol).

I’ve got that tsi engine in my octy vrs

its great to drive. loads of torque and revs freely too, althogh you don’t need to. however ignore VAGs figures for consumption. Mine isn’t quite run in yet (5300 miles, they take about 8k to loosen) and in the summer I could JUST get 40mpg on 200 motorway runs at 75mph. now in winter its down about 4mpg. around town I get high 20s or low 30s.

emissions regs and dpfs are gong to make diesels quite differnt and costly for small cars I suspect..in fact for small cars I think they may be troubled

I doubt I’d go back to petrol. I do about about 8k a year (I cycle to work and down the shops and really whenever I can.

That said, i’ve had diesels for many years now and they’re Awesome. I had the Honda off Alex as above, I’ve had an A3 and now and A4. Brilliant. It’s not so much about the economy, although they all have been economical (the A4 is astounding), it’s not driving around feeling like I’m ragging the arse off it. Diesel cars top out at about 4k whereas petrol cars start warming up at that point.

samuri, at 8k a year you’d be better financially in a petrol, and a VAG TSI/TSFI is, in most peoples eyes, a nicer drive than a bigger VAG TDI. the TDIs are nice, but so are the turbo petrols now. they are torquey and free reving. I sit in 5th gear at 30, 6th at 40, about 1200 or 1300 revs, in silence. (excpet for the bloody sound generator)

It was a good car that wasn’t is Jon? 🙂 Driving the two Yeti’s back to back, the petrol was definitely quieter. Th Diesel did feel more torque-y which isn’t surprising, and also it 15% more powerful in terms of PS. But the petrol felt quicker (not sure it is).

Loaded up with 4 of us on the motorway, diesel would clearly be better. But that’s less than 10% of my driving. I made the decision on what was best for the type of driving I did most of the time, and accepted it wouldn’t be perfect for everything.

We’ll all be driving electric cars soon anyway 😉

I can’t remember the last time I drove a petrol apart from nipping out in mums 1997 Polo as I’ve had Diesel cars and Vans.

No question for the OP, use Diesel but I’m just wondering if anyone has took any of these small 3 cyl Turbo petrols upto big mileage ie 100 k + yet or have they not been around long enough ?

Just thinking about longevity, I may be old fashioned, but 1.0 back when I started driving couldn’t do more than 75 mph and needed a calender for 0-60

Just now I have a TOyota Corolla Altis – largish saloon with 1.6vvti CVT in it.

I thought I was going to hate it, underpowered for a larger car.

Currently gets me 38mpg all the time.

I do a 300 km round 4 or 5 times a month to the other site, and if I thrash it, or I drive it steadily it is costing me the same, around 18 quid a journey.

I was diesel man in the UK and thought I would be here as well.

Only thing that I would like in place of this car is a Camry Hybrid

38 mpg for a 220bhp car? That’s progress. My old 1987 220bhp Porsche 944 turbo never broke 30mpg and generally got mid 20’s.

Diesels will fall out of favour. The only reason they have become more popular is the over emphasis on co2 emissions and not fuel efficiency – it takes the average driver 3 to 4 years to make up the extra cost of a diesel car in savings in fuel, so not a good reason for an average driver to go diesel on its own given most people change cars more frequently these days.

People are waking up to the environmental harm diesels do to the environment with smog returning to our towns and cities and the rise in health issues. It won’t be long until the tax regime is changed to favour small efficient petrol engines and Hybrids (I guess we’re already there with hybrids, they’re just not fashionable).

The big slug of torque you get in the low Rev range with diesels is evocative to many, but this is a bit of smoke and mirrors and modern turbocharged petrol engines with intelligent auto gearboxes can provide this effect if only the UK would get over our obsession with manual boxes (we’re not better at changing gear than an auto box – get over it). Also with new hybrid power trains with more powerful electric engines can produce far more instant torque than a Diesel engine at any point through the Rev range rather than only being able to deliver it over a few hundred rpm.

But for now, if you’re a high milage driver then diesel still makes financial sense. I much prefer a petrol engine though. As a comparison an SMax with a 2 ltr turbo petrol engine is far nicer to drive than my 2.2 diesel one and is quicker despite the initial surge of torque my engine delivers low down in the Rev range. I know as a mate of mine has the petrol one and I’ve driven it and we’ve been on family trips together where we’ve compared the cars. His is quicker hands down all over the Rev range. You don’t get a surge of torque, but a smooth progression over the entire Rev range, where as mine gives you a kick in the back initially but it’s all over by 3krpm, the remaining 1500 rpm to the red line is utterly useless. The only reason I have the diesel over the petrol is financial: 25mpg vs 38mpg (so 350 miles per tank vs. 500 miles per tank), and the difference in annual tax. I could live with the fuel consumption difference, especially if fuel prices fall (I know it’s not a permanent drop), but the difference in annual tax is a big hit – almost as much as my insurance. I suspect that will be addressed at some point. Until then diesels are a necessary evil.

People are waking up to the environmental harm diesels do to the environment with smog returning to our towns and cities and the rise in health issues. It won’t be long until the tax regime is changed to favour small efficient petrol engines and Hybrids (I guess we’re already there with hybrids, they’re just not fashionable)

^^^ this – plans in central london for a low emissions zone starting 2020 covering the congestion zone, will add an extra £12 per day for trips into the centre for all but the latest diesels but petrols since about 2007 are already compliant.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/nov/19/eu-court-rules-uk-government-must-clean-up-dangerous-air-pollution

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/88923/diesels-causing-illegal-air-pollution-levels-across-the-uk

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/11280067/London-will-follow-Paris-and-ban-diesel-cars-campaigners-warn.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30760370

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR – Member

I love diesels and the torque they deliver.

If you don’t like having to change gear, why not drive an auto?

Genuine question.

Family has a Fiesta Ecoboost and a Passat blue motion
Both a similar to drive with similar levels of get up and go and torque (percieved)
Passat does about 58mpg real world, fiesta about 49mpg. Specifically the Fiesta gets nowhere near its official figure of 65, while the Passat is plausibly close to the official figure of 58.5mpg
Fiesta is nicer on short or twisty journeys, Passat is brilliant on the motorway

Official consumption numbers should never be believed, cars are developed to get good figures on the test, as thats what manufacturers emmisions figures, road fund license etc are worked out on, and the higher the number the more you’d want to buy it.

I borrowed a Passat bluemotion tech for a few days last year (1.6 manual saloon), not sure what the official figures are, but on a 150 mile motorway journey with bad city traffic at each end it reckoned it did 72mpg, motorway was dealt with at 78mpg indicated cruise control. After filling it up, the computer had dropped to 61mpg over the whole tank, and a fill up revealed 64mpg over the whole tank (but I didn’t fill it up the first time so…). Anyways, for the size, comfort, performance (150bhp?), and speed it got me around those few days 60 odd mpg is amazing.

I guess the rule would be, use it for city driving, short journeys, not many motorway trips. Petrol Petrol Petrol. they are so much cleaner (in an urban environment) and cost effective in this use.

But if you spend most of your life on A roads + motorway with little city/town driving then diesel diesel diesel!