[Closed] People riding and walking the wrong way at trail centres

Yup had to get out the way of two guys on bikes going the wrong way there. I did chuckle as they looked at me like i was in the wrong???? Have almost had a wipe out on a dowhill section from someone bimbling up the other side too. I do tgink some parts should be one way to stop any unecessary accidents.

watched a family of 5 go the up the wrong way of the final descent at Nantyarian, plenty of signage there 😕

Is it beyond the FC to stick up signs on back of the way-markers saying something along the lines of "One way bike trail, caution advised"?

Why don't you get in touch and ask them?

To be honest though you could put signs or loud speakers telling folk. There will always be those who ignore it.

came across 2 old fellas walking the wrong way at gisburn forest, luckily i wasn't going to fast. also on the same ride i came across a couple with 3 dogs just about to walk down a bike trail until i pointed out that it was a bike trail and not a footpath and that it was dangerous for them to walk down it.

I was at Pines once and came across a couple and their kid having a picnic slap bang in the middle of the red trail, there was a mass of trees either side so nowhere to go except over the picnic blanket! made me chuckle 🙂

Perhaps trail centres need chainlink fences around them, and a membership policy to make sure only the right sort can get in. Or they can be ridden on the basis that we're not [i]that[/i] special and meeting someone else doing something else is a likelyhood. Its always seemed to me that cycling is just one of several things that is being encouraged at these sites, but perhaps we should put a stop to that. 🙂

What would happen if you went down the trail and found someone crashed just around the corner?

Or maybe a better way to put it - how would you feel if you had crashed badly just round a corner and you knew someone was coming down riding without the ability to stop for the unexpected?

Isn't part of the skill of riding a bike the ability to handle the unexpected?

Why don't you get in touch and ask them?

I will.

Its always seemed to me that cycling is just one of several things that is being encouraged at these sites, but perhaps we should put a stop to that.

Of course it is. But, there are lots of unmarked paths / singletrack through the woods, loads of fire roads etc. Surely the point of the purpose built & waypointed cycle trails is to minimise conflict between the different groups that use the place?

What would happen if you went down the trail and found someone crashed just around the corner?

I'd stop, like I stopped when I found a couple riding the wrong way. Crashed riders are very rare occurence (I've never actually come across anyone crashed, though I've encountered a few chatting / fixing punctures in inopportune places).

People walking dogs on the trail and riding the wrong way seem to be very common, and they've got the added fun factor of moving, often quite quickly.

What would happen if you went down the trail and found someone crashed just around the corner?

Yes you should be able to stop but that doesn't give muppets carte blanche to do idiotic and dangerous things. Generally in FC places footpaths and bike trails are kept seperate for a reason.

Part of the problem is that the FC in England do not like excluding anyone and so will put up signs saying "walking not advised".

At our local Trail Centre, Bedgebury, they have been putting up more and more signage. Not sure it is having a huge effect. It is the dog-walkers who don't have their dogs on a leash who are the most dangerous , and also the most unpleasant when challenged about their control of their hounds.

came across two young kids in sherwood pines last year, just playing on the trail and wafting very big sticks around, it was on a fairly fast section and I only saw them when I was about 10m away- had to take avoiding action to not hit them. Saw their parents on the fire road and while trying to stay calm I mentioned to them that it might be dangerous for their kids to play there as its a specific bike trail and they're on a particularly fast bit- the torrent of abuse I got was unbelievable.

I ran into a spaniel at Swinley yesterday, it seemed remarkably unfazed by the whole ordeal!

Trail centers are not race tracks, you have to accept that.

Just as we regulalry post on here telling the world how tresspass is not a crime and footpaths are fair game if ridden sensibly. I'm sure the families walking on red trails could argue that they dont crash into people or cause any undue errosion of the trail so how come its OK for us to impeed on their trails but not vice versa?

Hm...see the dog thread for an insight into the psychology of what constitutes a legitimate use of a bike-specific trail.

I'm constantly coming across riders (young and old) resting in the middle of the trail on bends, standing around jumps on red routes or pushing back up reds to do the jumps again. The truth is that many people are thoughtless (in a genuinely 'just not thinking' way), or alpha-male selfish or very inexperienced (see youtube for proof of this) or, and I'm loathed to use the term as a generalisation, just rather 'stupid'. Or all three of course.

That said, the vast majority of riders aren't like that. And we all have blonde moments, especially when exhausted. That's an easy trap to get caught in for many inexperienced riders at trail centres.

You have to factor all this in on a ride I'm afraid.

I had some guy walking his dog up the bottom section of Lee quarry. luckily I was going slow. there is a big red sign on the gate saying its likely there are cyclists and walkers should not enter OWTTE!

I've ridden the wrong way for a short (30m or so) section at Carron Valley, to get back to the main loop having tried recoil and ended up (surprisingly) back at the start of the right hand loop which I didn't have time to do again. It's a short uphill section (when done the right way round) and I was eeking down it at about 5mph aware of the possibility of people coming the other way (quiet trail centre so not that likely). Just my luck I came across 2 parents and 2 kids tootling round. Naturally I stopped, stood off the trail and smiled and let them all past, just as they all went past the father said "I thought this was a one-way trail?" in a sarcastic fashion. I didn't find this overly amusing as I'd made obvious efforts way in advance of their passing to get right out of the way, so I just shook my head and continued the remaining 10m to the main path.

I am fully on the trail centres should be attacked in one direction and shouldn't be multi-use trails if markd as cycle routes, which is why when you have to use it the wrong way (rather than just choosing to) you make damn sure not to get in other peoples way or cause a danger. It's just a shame some people are smart-arses and sarcastic about it.

Hm...see the dog thread for an insight into the psychology of what constitutes a legitimate use of a bike-specific trail.

Thats sounds fairly derogatory, and pretty much sums up the problem with some mtbers psyche / outlook.

The trails may be designed as "bike specific" and that is their sole intended purpose. But, unless they are privately owned and run, private club / membership and on private land, walkers have as much legal right to access and use them as we have...

Agreed, it's not particularly sensible, but I wouldn't want to be sued by a walker that I couldn't stop for

If i hit a walker on a red run, i'd be back on the bike and offski, i aint got no reg plate so find me, f***erz!

If i hit a walker on a red run, i'd be back on the bike and offski, i aint got no reg plate so find me, f***erz!

Really?? So if you hit and maimed a child you'd just up and off??

What a disgrace - no wonder mtbers are looked at in such a negative light by other countryside usrs... That sort of attitude does us no favours at all

Yer dead right love! It's great when idiots are undone by thier own stupidity, and i include myself in that statement if i come off due to lack of talent...

don't bite rkk01 - there's always trolls.

Standard defence stetegy, huh? If you don't like what's said, it must be trolling?
Come on, get some originality ffs!

Yer dead right love! It's great when idiots are undone by thier own stupidity, and i include myself in that statement if i come off due to lack of talent...

Ohh, that's fine then*.
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Presumably

[b]It's great when idiots are undone by thier own stupidity, and i include myself in that statement [/b]

My cousin spent a few years in HMP Dartmoor for something similar that didn't quite turn out as expected....
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.* feed the trolls time 😮

Standard defence stetegy, huh? If you don't like what's said, it must be trolling?
Come on, get some originality ffs!

Not defence at all actually, just my assumption that no-one is that thick so must be doing it for attention. Clearly I'm mistaken.

Maybe I’m being naïve here but if there isn’t actually a “Correct direction” indicated then surely the trail is “Bi-directional” and can be ridden either way…

I think you should Bawl at the offending Walkers/Cyclists:

[i]“This isn’t the Bloody Countryside you Know! We’ve got Rules here! The price for Transgression is DEATH Beneath my Wheels!” [/i]

Then just Ride at them, see what response that gets…

I’m all in favour of Trail centres but I can’t help thinking that people seem to be expecting “over-sanitised” environments tailored specifically to their own cycling needs, skill levels and ability to stay alert to other trail users, with the full exclusion of all other “country side pursuits”, you’re not the only people who use the Woods you know...

Way marked/mapped trails are handy but shouldn’t absolve riders of the need to have an actual brain of their own, you still need to be alert to other woodland users regardless of how “stupid” they are…

Right for a first off, the first statement is tongue in cheek.. pretty hard to get that across in type but hey ho. So i treated the first answer with a ridiculous answer that the ridiculous statement warrented.. course i'd stop for a kid!

But.. the point being made in my original point, society is going down a path where no one is responsible for thier own actions any more, everything is risk assessed, acidents legislated against

Maybe if people had to THINK for themself, if they had to deal with the consequenses without being awarded a handsome pay out at the drop of a hat, maybe THEY WOULDNT WANDER IN TO A DANGEROUS SITUATION!

And any how, god yeah i'd doo one, chances of getting caught are infenitismal, and then they gotta prove it was me! 😉

Happy now? 🙂

Cookeaa, succint, to the point and correct.

Ta.

what?
you'd just **** off without seeing if they were ok?
generally forestry land is access land. anyone can go where they like. kind of how we get away with building cheeky trails...

Maybe I’m being naïve here but if there isn’t actually a “Correct direction” indicated then surely the trail is “Bi-directional” and can be ridden either way…

The Red at Sherwood pines is one way. There are signposts with direction arrows showing you where to go if you're heading the correct way, but nothing on the backside of them. A lot of the trails at pines have very short sight lines, obviously having been designed to work one way only.

To me the idea that people shouldn't be discouraged from heading up the trails the wrong way is stupid. We're talking about avoiding needless accidents on [b]purpose built cycling trails[/b], not banning conkers or the Kinder mass trespass. To me, it's as daft as having people wander around a ski slope or stand where they want at a race track.

It's not as if the woods are a wild places that needs to be kept from looking urban - it's a tree farm with a caff, car park and bike shop!

I live in Scotland so maybe I don't get the whole trail centre thing.

Are they supposed to be like race tracks? Can understand being upset at oncoming traffic if they are.

I was thinking they were resources for the general community which includes families with kids and the like, and thus requiring a riding style that takes that into account.

more signs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

could always reuse all the "dogs must be on a lead" signs because they are needed - dog owners use their judgement, bit like some who ride mountain bikes always use their judgement in what is generally a multi user environment
less blinkered judgement by all is needed but unlikely

Are they supposed to be like race tracks? Can understand being upset at oncoming traffic if they are.

Well, at Pines, the Blue and Red trails are waymarked as one way, and I believe the Green is too. There's also a load of waymarked footpaths, along with unmarked singletrack / paths, and obviously fire roads.

A guy I work with came off and broke his arm at Sherwood Pines recently, he came round the corner and, smack in the middle of it, walking the wrong way were a couple and a dog. He swerved to avoid them, went into the trees, came off and knocked himself out. When he came to a few moments later and realised his arm was agony, he looked around and saw the couple walking off!

They never even checked if he was alright, never spoke to him.

So that "going off" thing works both ways...

I live in Scotland so maybe I don't get the whole trail centre thing.

Odd, considering half the trail centres in the UK are in scotland 😉

The walker and dog, "real life" anecdote.. stupid flippant reply head off now..
If it was me, i hope i wouldnt have been riding so fast so as to be unable to stop, but i'm human and get red mist as much as the next guy, in that case i dont think i'd have swerved - in the name of self preservation, and dealt with the consequenses after the event?

Don't get too hooked up on the dog walkers, people cycling the wrong way are way more dangerous, if less common. There are lots of short descents followed by short climbs at Pines, and it's very easy for cyclists to be closing on each other at 30-40mph.

saw two people walking along the last downhill section of the Wall at Afan this w/end. A couple of weeks ago a mountain biker had decided to stop and take a phone call in the middle of the last descent on Whites - on a corner too. Both times the people were in the middle of the trail 😯

not something I'd choose to do in case somebody rode into me but there you go, I guess some folks just aren't that bothered about it.

Kev

Same as, Kev, i wouldnt do it, even when ive puntured mid berm ive pulled the bike away from the trail.. i hope i have more consideration, but its foolish to expect everyone to act the same

I imagine walkers see the signs and ignore them. It's exactly what I do when I see footpath signs.

But surely if walking and chose to ignore signs pointing out bike trails, you must think to yourself, there may be bikes coming down here at the thick end of 30mph....

The trails may be designed as "bike specific" and that is their sole intended purpose. But, unless they are privately owned and run, private club / membership and on private land, walkers have as much legal right to access and use them as we have...

riiight...are you the Trail Taliban, or am I? I can't [i]quite[/i] work it out.

But run 'em over anyway I say

...oh...er...sorry. Actually I'm the Trail Taliban. That was a give away, wasn't it?

I declare Jihad on all people using red routes as picknick areas!

jonb, yup agreed... I ignore footpath signs and ride my bike down them, the difference being is that I'm well aware there maybe people walking and am prepared for it. The people I came across walking /dawdling /blocking a downhill trail section were genuinely surprised to see someone on a bike coming towards them pretty quickly.

I ignored the walkers and went passed them but I did remind the guy on the phone that someone else might come around that corner quicker than me...

Kev

riiight...are you the Trail Taliban, or am I? I can't quite work it out.

I'm no trail fundamentalist...

... but this topic used to get frequent airings on mtb-wales.com 5-6 years ago*. My general line of argument was as many of you above have posted - ignorant, stupid people walking up the wall descent, for example, should not be on mtb trails.

However, it was pointed out by the forum admin / owner (and former trail builder involved in the Penhydd build) that FC could not do anything about walkers etc, other than put up warning signs. There is / was no legal mechanism to exclude walkers from mtb trails.

Compare this with the measures installed by FC (at a similar time) to exclude illegal trail use such as mxers. FC could (and have extensively) put in MX gates at the start of each singletrack section because the legal framework allows this.

The inability to exclude walkers from FC land, which has always been an open access land estate AFAIK, means that walkers and cyclists have to tolerate each other's presence. Mtbers understanding this inconvenient truth is a good start.

Furthermore, as I have posted on here several times, just being on a purpose built mtb trail is not going to absolve a rider of liability if they hit someone whilst riding out of control.

* Possibly because mtb-wales was a healthy, vibrant, argumentative 😉 forum back then, but also perhaps because the S Wales trails were some of the earliest to be built close to centres of population...?)

Bob on “rkk01”….

It seems there’s always a few anecdotes that “prove” how hard done by MTBers are, I’m sure if you go on some other forum there are some equally angry victims of “wheeled woodland menaces” nobody is whiter than white really…

If you want obstruction free, balls out riding then there actually are a few trail centres, uplift/race venues that offer this, otherwise accept that as an MTBer you are just one of a number of different woodland users, that 98% of trail centres are mixed use and due consideration for others is basically just good manners, (and also acts as a bit of self preservation). More signs are not the answer, riders showing a reasonable amount of thought for others and perhaps considering how their conduct reflects on the sport as a whole would probably help more…

Given the fact that trail centres place MTBs nearer the “top of the food chain” and the amount of criticism posted about thoughtless/dangerous drivers on the roads BY STWers; when the situation is somewhat reversed, you’d have thought most cyclists would have more consideration for other trail users, where they become the most dangerous moving thing in the area, But no it’s always someone else’s fault it seems…