Peak District Route Closures – Next Phase

The horse riders around the Roman lakes are very often married to mtbers, are friendly and know of the large amount of mtbers in the area.
Everyone is very aware of the different groups that ride these local bridleways and we all get along with polite waiting and thanking and the usual small talk where necessary.
The Strawberry Hill descent really suits horses, however it won’t be long before it’s all fun again when the heavy winter rains arrive.

I have no reason for not getting along with horse riders, I just rarely see them on bridleways because I deliberately avoid bridleways and other trails at times when there are going to be loads of horses or walkers. It’s far more fun to ride without stopping for walkers and horses every 50 yards, thus ruining the ride. We always go at night or in bad weather.

Just noticed this in the Matlock Mercury about the track near Longstone Moor. It invites email comments

http://www.matlockmercury.co.uk/news/local/60-000-resurfacing-work-after-just-one-complaint-1-6149486

Sorry what we do doesnt work for you compositepro. But please dont think that what we do is some kind of backslapping exercise to make ourselves look good. And your right nobody elected us to do this for you. We just wanted to do something, initally to stop SCC policy of creating easy going trails on any resufacing job.

Our involvement in Greno came about when the landowner changed from one who didnt car what happened on their land to one that does. They are trying to achieve a balance between habitat management and recreation.

If you want to infulnce what we do, email us, chat to us. At our winter meeting we will be having an open forum over what you would like us to do next year. We will be asking for people to submit topics and will then be asking for a vote on the shortlist to get them down to a managable number.

This isnt meant as an attack on what you have said, we would rather just clear up any confusion and also your comments mean we can better our focus for all
Thanks
RS

So, if one were to set about establishing a Peak riders’ alliance, for the sake of argument, how would you go about it based on the lessons you’ve learned with Ride Sheffield?

What have you found to work and not work? Are you predominately a virtual community or do you have regular real world meetings? What affiliations if any do you have? How many active members – is there a critical mass? How are you financed, if at all? How do you establish credibility with organisations like the PDNPA and DCC?

Any thoughts?

The horse riders around the Roman lakes are very often married to mtbers, are friendly and know of the large amount of mtbers in the area.
Everyone is very aware of the different groups that ride these local bridleways and we all get along with polite waiting and thanking and the usual small talk where necessary.
The Strawberry Hill descent really suits horses, however it won’t be long before it’s all fun again when the heavy winter rains arrive.

+1 the horsey lot around marple are ace 🙂 never had any issues, they speak highly of the mx crowd too!! :s

Appologies for the slow response Badlywireddog – but yes, we would be more than happy to let you know what has worked, what crushes the spirit etc.
If you want to drop us an email, we can help with whatever you need
Email is on the website
Thanks

Cheers John, I shall do just that.

Work so far on Roych. 🙁

Can’t get pic to link, for some reason. Probably because it’s too depressing.

Only ridden this once since moving to the Peaks last year 🙁

WTF!?

That’s a motorway now. Shocking.

From the twitter-verse it sounds as if ride Sheffield are getting a site visit with DCC. Good news.

Is that right rs?

That’s a motorway now. Shocking.

Roych was breaking up badly anyway – there was already a dual trail where those digger tracks are now where the main trail (on the right in that picture) was so badly cut up it was unusable.

Problem is, that forms one of the longest unbroken stretches of BOAT in the UK so it’s really popular. They’ve put in temporary closures (overturned in court) and put in a voluntary one-way system to try and stop vehicles climbing it (which is where the majority of erosion occurs) but none of it works for long before vehicles and weather turn the whole lot into a boggy rock-strewn morass. Can kind of see that they have to do some work – I guess no matter what they do someone somewhere is going to complain.

But they’re not really helping their cause by just coming in and “fixing” it without any consultation.

Crazy legs – I know but I don’t think the trail on the right was ever unusable. It was at worst a tall step. If dcc is going to be consistent and follow their policy as it stands then there are countless other paths that they should obliterate as they are doing here. It just appears that those other paths aren’t quite as popular with the vocal horsey crowd as the roych.

Update on Wigley Lane:

DCC’s barriers at top and bottom are illegal obstructions as the route is a Restricted Byway and has rights for horse drawn vehicles as well as disabled access. No chance of getting a pony and trap past those barriers so they must come out. A member of the public has server DCC an obstruction notice under S130A of the Road Traffic Act so they have no choice, especially having admitted in writing that they knew the barriers were illegal when they put them in but thought they could get away with it.

More taxpayers’ hard earned cash down the drain.

The wanton destruction of the Roych is enough to make you weep. I’ve been riding and walking there since 1979 and have seen the weather beat the crap out of it. Then DCC come along and make 10 times more wreckage. Let’s not forget that the destruction of Chapel Gate started in 1991 when DCC tarmaced it and killed the natural drainage, turning it into a waterfall. Then they stood back for 20 years and blamed motorists for the damage.

Wigley Lane and The Roych are in their current condition due to a single person behind Peak Horsepower, the bigoted minority who want Derbyshire flattened for horse use only. That person is Patricia Stubbs. Be warned.

Bamford Clough is next.

Maybe we should join peak horsepower. We share their aims….

http://www.peakhorsepower.co.uk/about-us/4551073217

Hubert, you’re a motorcyclist or 4×4 driver right?

Edit: as in, I’m guessing:

Philip Spink
Secretary
Derbyshire and South Yorkshire Group
[TRF forum]

Not having a go btw, just trying to understand where you’re coming from.

I’ve always played by the rules in the peaks. I stick to bw and never ride footpaths.

DCC is taking the stand point that it is legally obliged to keep these public rights of way in a condition suitable to be passed by all users who have a legal right to use them.

However, seeing what they’re doing to some of my favourite trails, I think I might have to review my personal policy regarding bw/fp.

I know some will say that it will just give “them” more ammunition but it was defiance on kinder that got us the access we have today.

It might be time for a second coming so to speak.

Update on Roych Clough:

We’ve just been out there with Cy to see the work being carried out here and have a chat with them. They’re doing a good job, were very friendly and were happy to chat.

All those stones in the pictures are being knocked in by hand and don’t look visually out of place at all. The drops won’t be as high, but will still be there. It’s just this section being worked on and there definitely isn’t any tarmac chipping going anywhere. It’s being done in the same way, by the same people, that it was done ten years ago – and I’ve been riding over their work for years without realising some of it wasn’t natural.

The difference is that the people carrying out the work aren’t the Derbyshire Highways dept. It’s overseen by the National Trails people (as it’s on the Pennine Bridleway) and is being carried out by the same guys who worked on Cut Gate years ago (and did a good job there). They are definitely thinking about bikes, visual impact, long-term durability etc etc as they go. Wiggly Lane this ain’t.

Now we just have to get the DCC highways people to think the same way…

Horse on bridle ways? Well in the EasternPeaks there are loads. Yesterday I met 7 in a 2 hour ride and of course three of them were blocking my favourite bit of narrow singletrack. No point in moaning they had as much right to be there as me, I just went a different way. The problem comes when their right to be there becomes more important than anybody else’s and that is just what organisations like Peak Horse Power want. In the Sheffield area, Hallam Riding Society seem to have a lot of influence with the RoW dept. in creating new bridle ways and get old ones sanitized although they don’t seem to have quite the ‘Rule the World ‘ agenda of some other organisations.
It is difficult to put together effective promotion of our point of view, you are inevitably going to get highly motivated people speaking for us rather than a democratic response and let’s face it as this thread shows most people think they will be alright whatever happens and won’t become involved.
All of us need to keep an eye on the situation and turn up to open meetings etc to get our PoV across or we will be pushed out of what consultation process there is.

The other issue is that cycling is such a broad church. These organisations may believe they are engaging with cyclist but depend on who those cyclists are, they may want different things.

The wife and I once rode with another couple who had offered to lead a ride. As we climbed the Roman road out of hope, they told us how they had modified the route because it should turn right, but that would take you down a track they described as “silly” and “totally unridable”. As it happens, they were talking about the beast. For the wife and I, that’s the reason for riding up towards hope cross from any direction.

These people would happily have described themselves as peak district mountain bikers. However, they would probably love to see some stone pitching down the beast.

I don’t know what the answer is, but I do think the problem runs deeper than we think and without doing something, I think it will very quickly be too late for those of us who seek out the more extreme end of what the peaks has to offer.

Cheers Tom, great update. Good to hear that it’s being handled sensitively and it’s just that one short section of trail. That big, wide motorway on the left, btw, was originally one of the built singletrack sections put in when they originally rehashed the Roych.

It’s been destroyed in the last two or three years by a combination of 4x4s detouring around the big rock slabby steps on the main path and water damage. There’s a post at the top to stop drivers doing just that, if you look closely, you can see that someone has half-sawed through the base in an effort to remove it.

I’m guessing that those of you who don’t meet horses on bridlepaths only ride in the area at the weekend. On weekdays you’ll meet loads of them… most of the horse riders ride from their door/yard/stables in the week, rather than drive to the area at the weekends.

Riding in the area mid week is ace, lots of friendly horse riders and walkers. None of the grumpiness you get at the weekend.

All these people riding horses on bridleways during the week- why aren’t they at work?!
My weekday mtbing is at night after 8 pm which means there are no horses or walkers blocking the trails 😉

Many of them are stay at home mums. Some are just riding after work.

Missus rides a horse and couldn’t care less about sanitised trails, which are flat and featureless etc, horses have no problem hacking up or down steep difficult rocky terrain.

Particularly welsh mountain ponys/cobs which is what I generally see being ridden in the peaks.

cruzcampo and a couple of others have picked up on a point that keeps twirling round my head. There seems to be a contingent who think “access for all” means “access for least able” and I think this is wrong. A right of way is not a guarantee that it will be easy and I suspect most participants in most pastimes relish the different challenges available to them. Sometimes I want an easy cruise with my family and other times I want a steep and technical challenge. I don’t expect every ROW to be something my wife or kids will be able to do and this applies whether they’re on foot, horseback, a bike or even a 4×4.

I’m not suggesting we go out and grade every bridleway, BOAT and RUPP like at a trail centre, climbing venue or ski resort, but presumably most of us shared trail users research the trails first to know what’s going to be within our levels of ability. Sanitising all trails for the least able is not a path (pun intended) we should go down.

I’m all for shared use, trail maintenance and sustainability, but if we need to group together and fight the curse of wholesale trail sanitisation then show me where to sign up.

I’d guess a few of the horse riders out around Mellor/Strines areas may not need to work? I rode past the bottom of the strawberry hill descent yesterday on my CX. Disappointed to say the least and yes, it will be back to its old state in a couple of years. I even chatted to a young lass avec cheval who said how ace it now is. Hay ho.

Regardless of the argument for and against this trail work, what gets my goat more than anything is where this money comes from. I’m guessing its Stockport MBC in this case? If so, I know from personal experience the level of cuts Child Social Services is having, amongst others. How SMBC can justify this type of spend (and prop up Stockport County FC, with favourable mates’ rate loans), is mind blowing in the current climate. I’m sure I’m taking an overly simplistic view of things, but I’d love to know what the decision making process is and whether or not funds are ring fenced for this.

@stilltortoise +1

The group she rides with prefer the challenge of tech trails, gives the horse a better workout too.

beagle – Member
I’d guess a few of the horse riders out around Mellor/Strines areas may not need to work? I rode past the bottom of the strawberry hill descent yesterday on my CX. Disappointed to say the least and yes, it will be back to its old state in a couple of years. I even chatted to a young lass avec cheval who said how ace it now is. Hay ho.

Regardless of the argument for and against this trail work, what gets my goat more than anything is where this money comes from. I’m guessing its Stockport MBC in this case? If so, I know from personal experience the level of cuts Child Social Services is having, amongst others. How SMBC can justify this type of spend (and prop up Stockport County FC, with favourable mates’ rate loans), is mind blowing in the current climate. I’m sure I’m taking an overly simplistic view of things, but I’d love to know what the decision making process is and whether or not funds are ring fenced for this.

SMBC, far too many councillors at the top that act above the law, some interesting reading on just one example…

http://www.sheilaoliver.org/contamination.html

Maybe our best chance of influencing this might be to get mps interested in how councils are spending public money.

I agree with the point about but it deems that risk averse local authorities don’t.

All in needs is for someone to have a nasty accident on a sanitised trail that wouldn’t have happened on the old trail.

I’ve always played by the rules in the peaks. I stick to bw and never ride footpaths.

You’re missing the best trails then!

cruzcampo and a couple of others have picked up on a point that keeps twirling round my head. There seems to be a contingent who think “access for all” means “access for least able” and I think this is wrong. A right of way is not a guarantee that it will be easy and I suspect most participants in most pastimes relish the different challenges available to them. Sometimes I want an easy cruise with my family and other times I want a steep and technical challenge. I don’t expect every ROW to be something my wife or kids will be able to do and this applies whether they’re on foot, horseback, a bike or even a 4×4.

Agree 100% and there seem to be a few people in Council ROW offices who adopt the same approach and work to the same “standards” across all trails everywhere – grading them, leveling them and putting down gravel or tarmac chippings regardless of what they hear form the many varied ROW user groups. Unfortunately, MTBers have traditionally been far and away the worst at forming any sort of coherent user group, especially compared to ramblers and horse riders.

All in needs is for someone to have a nasty accident on a sanitised trail that wouldn’t have happened on the old trail.

That’ll never stand up in court – impossible to prove that someone who has crashed on a sanitised trail wouldn’t have crashed on the original…

He may also be being a little economical with the truth 😉

True, it wouldn’t stand up in court, but most local authorities are pretty weak when challenged. Doubt it would ever get to court. Part of the reason long causeway got treated was because a motorcyclist came unstuck. He didn’t complaintor threaten, just got scraped up by his mates and went home. Council just heard about it on the grapevine afterwards. Still enough to make them twitchy though.

Nbt, I’m sure you said it was a bw when we set off. And that was the only one. I do think it might be time to blatantly ride foot paths now though.

Some positive news about Roych Clough on Ride Sheffield website …. http://www.ridesheffield.org.uk/

do you think they’d have done the same if an mtber who came off? I had a hefty haematoma on my side after an OTB incident on long causeway and would never have thought that me getting punished for my incompetence could lead to someone flattening a trail

Following a further complaint over the barriers on Wigley Lane from the TRF’s rights of way legal expert, DCC have served an obstruction order on themselves and have removed them.

Don’t know how much extra that has added to the cost, but they were put up despite DCC being fully aware that they were illegal.

Not exactly the same issue – but a dispute over a footpath has cost Derbyshire County Council over £450,000

http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/grassroots/council-spends-450k-on-row-over-footpath-1-6230592

Ouch