Owen Paterson #Torysleaze

Cash for honours

the history of this goes back to pre first world war and in 1925 laws were passed to prevent it. Labour were not really an electoral force then

Tories invented it – make no mistake

In the more recent era it was Harold Wilson and ” the lavender list”

Its always been tory practice to let folk buy honours – its just they are more subtle about it and the scale of corruption in the tory party is far in excess of anything under even the worst Labour governments

First nail in the coffin?

As ridiculous as pretending that in recent years cash-for-honours sleaze hasn’t been primarily associated with Labour.

My overriding memory of the outcome of the cash for honours scandal was the publication of list of donors to both major parties for the first time detailing how much they both owed to wealthy individuals.

I think one of the greatest tricks of the Tory party is propagating the myth that they are all as bad as each other. It gives people a clearer conscience when voting Conservative. They really aren’t morally all equal, especially when it comes to sleaze

I think one of the greatest tricks of the Tory party is propagating the myth that they are all as bad as each other

Its worth pointing out that they are greatly aided in this task, as this thread itself demonstrates, by those on the left who seem to think that unless you’re living in a damp council flat on a sink estate, wearing sack-cloth and surviving on out of date mung-beans then you’re obviously corrupt

But even when the Mail published this the other day, it was still referring to generic ‘MP’s’, so by implication it’s all of them that are at it

In reality, there’s absolutely no comparison between the Tory’s, plenty of whom are earning millions on the side, and the members of any other party. They’re institutionally corrupt. It’s in their DNA

by those on the left who seem to think that unless you’re living in a damp council flat on a sink estate

You talking about this?

"You were in talks to take a job yourself."

"No I wasn't. I was in discussion." pic.twitter.com/f7We5acRes

— Alex Nunns (@alexnunns) November 8, 2021

I think one of the greatest tricks of the Tory party is propagating the myth that they are all as bad as each other. It gives people a clearer conscience when voting Conservative. They really aren’t morally all equal, especially when it comes to sleaze

Experience has taught me that it’s pretty much odds-on that anyone who says “all politicians are as bad as each other” is a right-wing voter.

Experience has taught me that it’s pretty much odds-on that anyone who says “all politicians are as bad as each other” is a right-wing voter

Have a read of the last couple of pages. It’s actually the same on both sides once you stray from the centre. Our resident lefties here all think that ‘they’re all as bad as each other’ too, as they vocalise at every available opportunity (see above)

Apart from Saint Jeremy of Corbyn of course. Somehow all the money he gets for his extra-curricular activities is all just fine and pure and virtuous and just morally superior

It’s actually the same on both sides

So you still believe it then?

Apart from Saint Jeremy of Corbyn of course. Somehow all the money he gets for his extra-curricular activities is all just fine and pure and virtuous and just morally superior

Genuine question, do you really believe that Jeremy Corbyn is not morally superior to Boris Johnson?

Its worth pointing out that they are greatly aided in this task, as this thread itself demonstrates, by those on the left who seem to think that unless you’re living in a damp council flat on a sink estate, wearing sack-cloth and surviving on out of date mung-beans then you’re obviously corrupt

Lol! Laughing at you though, not with you…

Apart from Saint Jeremy of Corbyn of course. Somehow all the money he gets for his extra-curricular activities is all just fine and pure and virtuous and just morally superior

What’s all this money then? Care to elaborate?

You talking about this?

Oof. Awks. You can see him squirm. ‘Shit, I can’t take that lucrative offer now all this crap has hit the fan. Bollocks’. Just another cheek of the same arse.

Just gonna leave this here…

https://www.tatler.com/gallery/tony-blair-family-children-euan-kathryn-nicky-leo-multimillion-pound-property-portfolio

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/mar/14/tony-cherie-blair-property-empire-worth-estimated-27m-pounds

Not short of a bob or two, are they?

Let’s all talk about Labour… even at the point where the press are finally actually criticising our current government and their supporting MPs. Yes.. let’s do that.

– Corbyn’s outside interests have always been small fry compared to your average Tory MP, never mind the worst offenders.

– Blair’s family have done very well out of the London property boom. And would have without him being PM.

– Starmer not taking on new work five years ago is in no way equivalent to Tory MPs taking on paid consultancy work. That “same arse” comment has nothing to back it up at all.

Blair’s family have done very well out of the London property boom. And would have without him being PM.

So, his family’s incredible wealth has nothing at all to do with his extremely powerful and influential global connections then? All simply down to hard graft, right?

Starmer not taking on new work five years ago is in no way equivalent to Tory MPs taking on paid consultancy work. That “same arse” comment has nothing to back it up at all.

You really don’t think Armrest would happily take lucrative extra jobs if he could ‘get away with it’? He’s probably been lining up his career beyond politics, all along. He’ll no doubt be richly rewarded for his work in destroying the Left, and undermining British democracy. There’ll be no shortage of grateful beneficiaries of that, lining up to thank him…

But even when the Mail published this the other day, it was still referring to generic ‘MP’s’, so by implication it’s all of them that are at it

Interestingly, they’ve moved the language this morning… “Tory” in the sub heading… perhaps it’ll be in the headline next…

BBC – The Papers

Blair’s family have done very well out of the London property boom. And would have without him being PM.

Bollox

He flipped prioperties and paid for them out of expenses – that gave him the start – and he has been paid eyewatering sums for almost no work

His snout was as firmly in the trough as any tory – which is of course what he was. He wanted to be rich. that was his only aim

He may well have not have done “as well”, but barristers who got into property in London in the 90s are all sitting on very tidy portfolios now. The Blairs and their children would be sitting very pretty now if they’d stayed away from politics. Happy to accept they’d probably be less rich… but they would still have been very well off indeed.

He may well have not have done “as well”, but barristers who got into property in London in the 90s are all sitting on very tidy portfolios now. The Blairs and their children would be sitting very pretty now if they’d stayed away from politics. Happy to accept they’d probably be less rich… but they would still have been very well off indeed.

Agree with all of that. Two people on roughly 6 figure salaries dealing in property in a booming market would do well whatever the circumstances. I’m no Blair fan and happy to knock him but this isn’t really it and certainly nothing like the the current Tory sleaze. That’s where the focus should be.

Here’s a thought….

We could pay MP’s more (double their salary) bit prohibit jobs on the side.

Pay cabinet ministers tripple their salary but prohibit them from taking a job in any field that relates to their Ministerial brief for 5 or 10 years.

Tell me why this wouldn’t work?

I’m no Blair fan and happy to knock him but this isn’t really it and certainly nothing like the the current Tory sleaze.

Seriously? I’d read up on the Ecclestone affair… looks pretty similar to me.

Agree though that the current Labour Party isn’t responsible for Blair’s dodgy deals twenty years ago.

We could pay MP’s more (double their salary) bit prohibit jobs on the side.

Sounds great… but what about making money from owning things, rather than for hours worked? What if you part own an investment fund, for example, that will profit from political decisions made that you are in a position to influence. “Jobs” is just the most easily understandable bit of all this.

I’d like something in the rules to allow some outside work though… for example medical staff that want to keep the ability to practise… perhaps they could have whatever they learn outside result in a decrease in their MP’s salary. Would definitely like payments from media and press to result in a decrease in an MP’s salary.

We could pay MP’s more (double their salary) bit prohibit jobs on the side.

IIRC, one of the Scandinavian countries (Denmark?) MP’s live in state provided accommodation midweek, have free public transport passes they are expected to use and have a state appointed secretary etc for equivalent of the constituency office.

I’d like something in the rules to allow some outside work though… for example medical staff that want to keep the ability to practise… perhaps they could have whatever they learn outside result in a decrease in their MP’s salary. Would definitely like payments from media and press to result in a decrease in an MP’s salary.

It’d be relatively straight-forward to define the parameters for jobs that were socially beneficial. And we’re talking a small percentage of 600 people here, so the effort would be miniscule – a simple function of an ethics and standards committee, oh wait….

They are paid enough, and the way that greed and immorality has been legalised at the top of society they don’t even have to break the law to bury their noses in the trough.

They commit these acts for the thrills, and to prove they are above the rules of mere mortals. They hold the public in such contempt that they decide to see how far they can push beyond the boundaries just to keep score by how much they are “winning”.

MPs should be paid a relative amount to the national minimum wage – Ie a small multiple thereof so cannot have rises without minimum wage rises and they are paid plenty well enough

Apart from Saint Jeremy of Corbyn of course. Somehow all the money he gets for his extra-curricular activities is all just fine and pure and virtuous and just morally superior

You’re obsessed with Corbyn. What is this extra money he gets BTW?

Your lack of logical consistency is quite astonishing binners – simultaneously slagging people off for saying ‘they’re all as bad as each other’ while doing exactly that.

You’re obsessed with Corbyn. What is this extra money he gets BTW?

He’s a millionaire from all his rent-a-gob performances for Iranian State TV and Russia Today when he was in his comfort zone of anonymous backbench time-server

Boris Johnson writes for the Telegraph and he’s an evil bastard who is part of the right wing press. Starmer gives an interview with the Sun and he’s ‘colluding with the enemy’. Corbyn is on Russia Today every time they needed anyone to denounce ‘The West’ while he was an MP (before pretending to be Labour leader) and that’s all peachy ****ing creamy, because… erm…

The hypocrisy is absolutely off the scale

Or are you saying that Russia Today has some kind of moral authority that the Daily Telegraph lacks, so therefore it’s ok to be on their payroll?

Your lack of logical consistency is quite astonishing binners – simultaneously slagging people off for saying ‘they’re all as bad as each other’ while doing exactly that.

I’ve never said or implied that ‘they’re all the same, as I believe the polar opposite.

I’m merely pointing out that there are plenty on ‘the left’ who, given the glass houses they inhabit, maybe should refrain from lobbing half-nackers about

What about party gets A amount based on number of MPs. A is a hourly rate x no of MPs x hours in working week.
MPs have to fill in weekly timesheet party pays the wage. Hours and “project” charged to all publicly available.
Accommodation and office support provided.

Accommodation and offices provided by the state, seems like a very wise move to me. Paying the MPs mortgages for them, when they then vote on policies that have the state bending over backwards to ensure property prices keep going up, and earnings made by owning properties are protected, has always seemed odd to me. Need a pad in London to stay in to do your parliamentary work? Here you go… you can stay here. Need a constituency office… here you go… you can take over the one the previous MP used… the state owns it

What about party gets A amount based on number of MPs. A is a hourly rate x no of MPs x hours in working week.
MPs have to fill in weekly timesheet party pays the wage. Hours and “project” charged to all publicly available.
Accommodation and office support provided.

Doesn’t stand a chance. It equates money earned to amount of work carried out you must be crazy (Where’s the angle on that).

He’s a millionaire from all his rent-a-gob performances for Iranian State TV and Russia Today when he was in his comfort zone of anonymous backbench time-server

Citation needed.

You won’t get one Grum because its bollox. the ” corbyn is a muillionaire” bollox came from the fact he owns one house in london

Citation needed.

Will a Monty Python gif do instead?

I wonder how much Iranian TV pays for an appearance by a backbench opposition MP? Maybe I should have gone into politics.

Last figures I know off were in about 2017 when it was said RT paid about £1000/hour for MPs. The only numbers I can find at all regarding Corbyn in particular is a report that says members of the shadow cabinet have appeared 26 times since 2015 when Corbyn took over. So even if you say 20% of that (random figure pulled from my arse) is JC, and each slot is say a 10 minute interview (about the going time of broadcast interviews with politicians) that total is still just under an hour; 52 mins

So perhaps as much as £870…I wonder how he spent this fantastical wealth, chucked a few more Koi into his piano shaped pool? added a wing to the National Theatre?

It does bear saying though that allowing shadow cabinet ministers to appear on RT at all…strikes me as tone deaf at best.

EDIT: It also bears saying that it sort of neatly demonstrates the different levels of either perceived or actual corruption that we’re discussing here. Even critics of Corbyn (or the Labour party in general) would be hard pressed to say that he’s in the same league of Patterson or Cox or indeed the Tories as a general rule.

intheborders
Free Member

And how cheap are they ‘bought’?

This is the one thing that I can never quite understand. I mean, I understand the facts of it, I just can’t ever really comprehend it, like some weird math model shape that can’t exist in the real world. But for the most part they’re so cheap, I could afford to buy a Tory MP. When you look at the scale of the corruption, the billions of pounds that get poured down the drain (and more importantly the lives that are casually destroyed) during covid, none of them are making a good return on that- they’re selling out for pennies.

So why? Do they think it’s right- like their god given duty is to give public money to rich people and they just need the opportunity? Are they dim enough to think they’re getting a good deal, like a bank branch insider risking jail over a few hundred quid? Everyone’s got their price, but at least I can be certain that my price isn’t so pathetically low.

“They are paid enough, and the way that greed and immorality has been legalised at the top of society they don’t even have to break the law to bury their noses in the trough.”

But are they though? I’m sure there are plenty on here that earn more than an MP’s salary and a fair few that earn more than the Prime Ministers salary. The Chair of my Housing Association probably earns more than the PM! Do any af you share the same responsibility and exposure that an elected politician does?

I wonder how many well paid but suitable candidates decide to not go into politics because the income drop combined with the hassle would be too much?

If they’ve got their noses in the trough, take the trough away and replace it with a simpler, more transparent remuneration system. It might deter the most self Serving and greedy candidates whilst at the same time encourage those with a bit more to offer society.

Or we could just through rotten fruit and vegetables at or politicians and make them grovel for their wages, (though granted, that would make for a good t.v. show and the tabloids would love it)

But are they though? I’m sure there are plenty on here that earn more than an MP’s salary and a fair few that earn more than the Prime Ministers salary.

Oh really – what world do you live in?

I think in general MPs are probably not paid enough. Having spoken with a couple (Yvette Cooper, and Alex Sobel)  it can be a 7 day a week job and the hours are both long, frustrating, and as we realised recently again; dangerous to one’s health.  Certainly if Johnson can earn more as a columnist that he can as PM then something’s wrong. There’s a Wikipedia pages showing relative salaries in US dollars ($185,000 for PM) we’re very much at the bargain basement end of developed nations for pay.

Not short of a bob or two, are they?

Doesn’t occur to you that a top human rights lawyer’s income and some canny investments ahead of the last big property boom might be involved?

Sure, Blair had his nose in the trough, but like Sunak, he married well.

cox is my MP. his ‘constituency office’ is just down the road from my house. I can go and take photos of the cobwebs over the door later.

he’ll ride out the headlines and get voted back in at the next election with a thumping majority. he doesn’t even bother campaigning.