Osbourne says no to currency union.

I didn’t imply or intend to imply anything, I added too much of someone else’s comments in a quote box and that had caused unnecessary confusion. It’s too late to delete the offending paragraph from the FT quote.

I don’t think that any previous election results tell you that much about future voting patterns in an independent Scotland. However, I do think that the party with possibility for biggest % gains post independence would be the Tories, albeit in some new re-built form.

edit because of THM’s edit!

http://www.adamsmith.org/news/press-releases/comment-an-independtheyrehttp://would-better-off-using-the-pound-without
A different perspective- not sure I understand all the ins and outs though..
I’m not saying we shouldnt take on our share of the debt but if they’re refusing a currency union what next? Refusing a share of the assets?

How did the Tories fare in the Scottish elections?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_election,_2011#Election_system.2C_seats.2C_and_regions

Scottish tories are better represented in holyrood than in westminster.

However, I do think that the party with possibility for biggest % gains

Party with most to gain is probably labour if they unshackled themselves from the larger party. It’s pretty clear when you listen to the likes of Johann Lamont and the previous incumbents that they are on a very short leash.

Wow someone has stirred up the Little Englanders

This is a good thing, when Scotland get independence they will be a 3rd world country inside of 5 years, we don’t want them dragging Great Britain down with them!

But you can’t afford independence – that’s the whole point and there’s no use trying to claim otherwise or claiming anyone who uses this as an argument in anti Scotland. The ‘wish list’ just doesn’t stack up, simple as.

Absolutely no-one on either side of the argument is using “Scotland can’t afford it” as an argument any more. Its too easily shot down with, you know, numbers and facts and stuff.

Here is the FT’s recent take on it

All this is beside the point. Currency is not what independence is about its about self determination and about votes in Scotland counting in Scotland.

Well the facts are, that if Scotland keeps the pound (if the UK let them) then the UK will still be pulling most of the strings in Scotland (much like Germany is with Greece at the moment).

You really have to wonder if this whole independence thing is ‘cutting off the nose despite the face’. Scotland ditches all the benefits of being in a union yet still ends up (through monetary policy) being controlled by the rest of the UK. Alex Salmond really should have though this through properly – but then he probably has, since his sole mission seems to be to become President of Scotland. I bet he’d appoint himself the King of Scotland if he could 😆

althepal – you read stuff from ASI and dare to post if on here! You are a brave man. Kirkaldy or not, that is pretty racey RW stuff for STW. Mind your back. 😉

IMO, the crux of their argument is the bit about who will be the guarantor for Scottish banks and for the Scottish government (the Selgin bit). Given the obvious future importance of financial services (over-importance?) and the future requirements for Scotland to raise its own debt (not that dear Nicola seems to realise this) this is a crucial point. Actually, to be fair to Strugeon, she knows this full well as does AS hence their proposal for a currency union in the first place.

Being the ASI of course they have to attack the non-free market element of the € zone ie blaming the ECBs roles as a lender of last resort on the crisis. Rather confused logic there and an element of mixing horses and carts.

In essence, they are taking a pretty radical stance by arguing that without a lender of last resort, Scottish banks would behave in a much more prudent way (banks, prudent? have you watched how they have lobbied hard against Vickers). They are very anti moral-hazard and would prefer banks to be allowed to fail.

Fair to say that this is a radical free-market proposal and one that I would expect to have little following in Scotland and in financial markets given the importance of banks to the Scottish economy and the sensitivity of the Scottish economy to its banks.

Still fun to see if the SNP take up an ASI gauntlet and run with it. Outflank, the Tories on the RHS!! That would be something!

Alex Salmond really should have though this through properly – but then he probably has, since his sole mission seems to be to become President of Scotland. I bet he’d appoint himself the King of Scotland if he could

Said in jest I’m sure as it doesn’t really stand up to much scrutiny.

If Scotland is independent then we can vote out Alex Salmond whenever we like.

This is a democratic power we don’t currently have over our Westminster overseers

Absolutely no-one on either side of the argument is using “Scotland can’t afford it” as an argument any more. Its too easily shot down with, you know, numbers and facts and stuff.

Here is the FT’s recent take on it:

Here’s the oil industry’s take on it:

Said in jest I’m sure as it doesn’t really stand up to much scrutiny.

If Scotland is independent then we can vote out Alex Salmond whenever we like.

This is a democratic power we don’t currently have over our Westminster overseers
Not sure why you’d want to get into the EU then. You can’t vote them out. Go for proper independence while you can. Just like Iceland.

So, still quite a lot of oil left then? And that’s before opening up the west coast that had been off limits due to Trident.

Gives us a nice bit of breathing room while the renewables industry gets online – Scotland has some of the best prospects for renewable energy in Europe.

Hang on a minute. I’ve just realised something. We’re having a Scotland debate, and nobody has posted this….

There. Fixed it. Honestly, this place is going to the dogs 🙄

^^^
Hate to tell you this Binners but that statue was removed recently due to the vehement dislike of by the locals! I live in the shadow of Wally Monny.

bencooper – Member

And that’s before opening up the west coast that had been off limits due to Trident.

Hmm, could you tell me more about that or point me in the right direction? Googling not going too well.

There’s obviously two sides to the oil question but (being biased and pro-Yes) I always think that the oil running out should be a spur to independence not a deterrant- the goose has laid 4 eggs that we didn’t get the full benefit of, time to make sure we don’t lose the last one. Ought to focus the mind on what we’ve already lost.

If we discovered oil resources tomorrow equivalent to what’s (known to be) left in the north sea, that’d be a huge deal so I don’t feel like being down on the fact that there used to be more. Some folks would have you believe it’s all been “wasted” or spent on tax bribes but I don’t buy that, it’s been a huge boost for the UK.

So, still quite a lot of oil left then? And that’s before opening up the west coast that had been off limits due to Trident.

This is nothing more than a rumour dredged up by the YES campaign to suit their ‘oppressive English stance’. There is no confirmation that oil or gas do indeed exist in commercially viable quantities and it would seem that even if these rumours have substance that BP, a London based company who have allegedly completed a seismic survey would be the biggest beneficiary.

Gives us a nice bit of breathing room while the renewables industry gets online – Scotland has some of the best prospects for renewable energy in Europe.

This is true, but what is also true is that almost all of these resources lie in some of the most beautiful parts of the UK, valuable for tourism, fishing and wildlife. Would Scotland risk harming this by erecting wind turbines and building dams all over the place?

What should also be considered is the huge investment required to exploit these resources and the fact that most renewables companies are currently based overseas (the Danish being the biggest manufacturer of wind turbines for example). Huge amounts of outside and borrowed money will be required to develop Scotland’s own renewables industry. Whether outside investment is forthcoming (due to the huge uncertainty created should Scotland become independent) remains to be seen.

Imagine what that find would do to the currency and Scottish exports – remember the 70s! 😉

bencooper – Member
And that’s before opening up the west coast that had been off limits due to Trident.

Does anyone have any links to information to back this up?

Which bits are off limits due to Trident?

Why does Trident prevent oil exploration?

Submarines can operate quite happily in the North Sea.

V boats tend to patrol under the ice so they can hide, not off the West Coast.

This is true, but what is also true is that almost all of these resources lie in some of the most beautiful parts of the UK, valuable for tourism, fishing and wildlife. Would Scotland risk harming this by erecting wind turbines and building dams all over the place?

http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A1055080.pdf

Also http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-22351395
http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A916597.pdf

Just to make it interesting, BBC breaking news is saying that all 3 main parties are saying no currency union… Euro or 100irnbrus to 1Buckfast ? 🙂

What is it we do with most of our renewable energy that we generate again?
anyway, back to my op.. this is about the only thing the No camp has confirmed so far and like someone else has said there’s every chance the position will change in the event of a yes vote..

I really believe that this is just a negotiating position the no campaign are adopting. It will be interesting to see what Osborne actually says.

his is about the only thing the No camp has confirmed so far and like someone else has said there’s every chance the position will change in the event of a yes vote..

Unlikely to change on that one I’d think having stated their case so firmly. A YES vote also seems very unlikely.

I really believe that this is just a negotiating position the no campaign are adopting. It will be interesting to see what Osborne actually says.

Believe what you like but why would he say it if he didn’t mean it? This wasn’t said as part of a NO campaign, it was said to try and put straight the ever increasing bluster coming from the SNP camp who are doing all then can at the moment to stir up hatred of the UK Government in the belief that portraying the UK Government as a load of bully English conservative toffs will increase their vote.

Yeeaaaahhh lets **** the English . . . . . . and also **** ourselves at the same time with this whole sorry process.

this is about the only thing the No camp has confirmed so far

Except the No camp actually haven’t said it yet. What they’ve done is leak it to the media, who have happily and eagerly run with it. Apparently it’s meant to be in a speech tomorrow – we have to wait and see if Osborne really does rule out a currency union.

If he does, what he’s effectively doing is decoupling assets from liabilities – he’s saying that while an independent Scotland should share in the debts of the UK, we should not share in the assets*. That’s a pretty risky thing to admit to.

*and I’m sure some people will come along and say that Sterling is a liability not a debt – fine, add it onto the liability side of the balance sheet, it’s still something that Scotland’s population contributed equally to and should share in.

it was said to try and put straight the ever increasing bluster coming from the SNP camp who are doing all then can at the moment to stir up hatred of the UK Government in the belief that portraying the UK Government as a load of bully English conservative toffs will increase their vote.

So to counter the idea that the UK government is a load of bullying English Conservative toffs, we get bullied by an English Conservative toff?

Good plan.

I don’t think this speech (if it says what it’s leaked to say) is aimed at Scotland at all. I think it’s aimed at little Englanders – “don’t worry guys, we’ll make sure Scotland doesn’t get too uppity”.

“Only 3% and 2% of those polled respectively said EU membership or currency was most important to them in deciding how to vote in the referendum yet our politicians see these issues as priorities.”

It seems like Osborne might have picked the wrong subject to try to influence voters in Scotland on.Source is ScotlandSeptember18 a website set up to provide facts without bias.

Has anyone in the YES camp actually answered yet why Scotland would want to keep the UK pound, meaning that Scottish financial policy, interest rates and many other important decisions affecting Scotland would still be controlled from London? Surely this goes against everything that Independence stands for? Or would the SNP simply like to pick and choose the best bits of independence but still require lots of hand holding from the rest of the UK?

Has anyone in the YES camp actually answered yet why Scotland would want to keep the UK pound

Pragmatism

To be fair rebel, a yes vote is lookkng a lot more likely according to the polls.
I think this might be the reason the politicall gloves are coming off now…

So to counter the idea that the UK government is a load of bullying English Conservative toffs, we get bullied by an English Conservative toff?

He’s just disagreeing with your point of view. It’s not BULLYING, it’s called having a DEBATE! Honestly, sometimes it’s no wonder the Scots get accused of having a huge chip on their shoulder.

There’s a lot of trade between Scotland and England in both directions, so it makes sense for both countries to share a currency.

The UK shared the pound with Ireland for seven years – and that was after a bloody war, not a referendum.

He’s just disagreeing with your point of view. It’s not BULLYING, it’s called having a DEBATE!

A debate involves some kind of discussion, negotiation and compromise. He’s not doing that – he’s getting together with his clones in the other two main UK parties and issuing a decree.

If he says what it’s leaked he’ll say, of course.

It seems to be forgotten by both sides that the Irish Punt was pegged to Sterling unilaterally from the 1920s until Sterling was kicked out of the ERM…

The UK economy is looking at losing over 8.5% of it’s value from only 7.5% of the population, the UK economy is looking at losing almost all of it’s currently value natural resources (oil and gas) (Chinese coal costs mean mining in the uk is pretty much uneconomical)
The UK and Scotland would also be looking at exchange costs and the potential for massive tax differences (See N.I. when the R.O.I. whacked their corporation tax right down to get buisness for Dublin off London (and also look at how that turned out)

A currency Union on the above would appear to be in the interest of the UK as well as Scotland for internal trade.

Although provided a Scots pound was stabalised by asking the oil companies to pay us some of their taxes in Gold, Euros and US Dollars, my only real question is whether any of our bike shops could compete with Bike-Discount.

” worry guys, we’ll make sure Scotland doesn’t get too uppity”.

I rather think its aimed at those – like me – who were both amused and concerned about Alex Salmond’s absurd claim last week that the majority of the rest of the UK were happy about the prospect of a potential Currency Union with an Independent Scotland. Rather than having to have a referendum on that subject after a yes vote (& i do believe there would be pressure for such)they have simply headed it off at the pass.

I have no problem with Scottish Independence – rather the opposite – but I’m not backing up your experiment with my taxes.

I think a lot of this is really about English politics. Scotland doesn’t matter politically at Westminster – our 56 MPs don’t have much influence over anything.

But what really scares the hell out of Westminster politicians of all stripes is the SNP. Specifically the popularity of the SNP. The three main Westminster parties may have different names, but they’re pretty much the same party – all right-wing, with identikit policies. The electorate doesn’t really have a choice of different parties to vote for, and the parties like it that way.

But a decidedly left-wing socialist party that’s very popular with the electorate? That’s really worrying. That might give people in England ideas – like maybe they don’t have to put up with ConDemLab clones. As the recent love bombing showed, loads of people in England really like the idea of a more socialist, egalitarian society and would move to Scotland in a heartbeat if we got independence.

That cannot be allowed to happen.

That’s one reason i want Scottish Independence – it would really shake up UK politics.

bencooper – Member

But what really scares the hell out of Westminster politicians of all stripes is the SNP.

Not all stripes- Nigel Farage thinks the 2 main parties in Scotland are Labour and the Tories. 😆

Alex Salmond’s absurd claim last week that the majority of the rest of the UK were happy about the prospect of a potential Currency Union with an Independent Scotland

An absurd claim backed by polling:

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independent-scotland-should-keep-pound-ruk-poll-1-3249717

7 in 10 English people think an independent Scotland should keep the pound.